Expendables get pretty darn pricey after a few track days… have any of you found the balance of performance to price for Tires, Fluids, Pads and Rotors?

It’s been some years since I tracked a car regularly and it was always a Miata, M3, or similar… I miss doing it, but with a GTS now, I’m wondering if I can actually afford doing it with this car ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

If you have to ask, the answer is probably no.

 

Regularly as in every other weekend? Ex-track junkie here.

For the occasional track days, I still think GTS is manageable. Also depends if you're into DIY. But overall, I would prefer other track toys.

 

What vehicles do you recommend over GT variants and why?

I've been tracking a M4 for the last four years and its been very reliable and low cost. Nittos, Pagids, fuel and brake fluid.

I'm also considering tracking a GTR but I got a really bad feeling about it when I read that Bish sold his GTR. My friends all drive Porsches and I must make amends. GTR can't compete on weight, hoping to make up with power and handling.

 

I track my GTR pretty regularly. The real cost is pads, rotors and tires. those go quick but other than that it is very reliable.

 

CCB or Iron rotors?

How many track days do a set of rotors last?

 

Girodisc irons with Cobalt Friction XR1 pads. I would say a set lasts about 5 track days (5 -20-25min sessions each day) and pads about the same maybe around 4 track days but I am also on slicks.

 

Im my view the real cost is track day insurance and the risk of a precipitous loss of value when you sell it on if it has been damaged. Consumables are just another line item.

 

Anyone know how hard the CCB rotors wear from track use?

 

You don't really want to regularly track CCB's.

Pull them off if you have them, run steel and put them back on when you sell the car.

In my experience, the pad compounds that AMG use on the street are not up to long term track event use when paired with CCB's.

You can go aftermarket for the pads but overall while CCB's will last a long time on the street, they will wear quicker than you think on track and the cost to replace them is astronomical.

 

I agree with you to a point. IF being a regular HPDE junkie means around 6 weekends a year with about 8, 25 minute run groups, then the CCBs can be an excellent option. Purchase some Pagid RSC1s and replace (any pad you use) when you are down to about 1/3rd of the depth of the pad itself left, and the CCBs should last fine. Most important: purchase high quality brake cooling ducts like those made by Tikt! Yes they’re expensive but they will save you money on pads and rotors, plus when/if you trade the car you can sell those ducts here for at least 66% of your purchase price.

Caveat: IF you are a very quick driver and run primarily at a track that can be very hard on brakes, then best to convert the rotors to iron to begin with and store the CCBs as others have mentioned.

BTW: if AP Racing are making a BBK for the car, this is always the best setup to install IMHO.

 

What about just buying a GTR with irons to avoid converting to aftermarkets?

 

Hi,

First off, I haven't modified it myself. Just a few thoughts.

If you switch to steel, you should consider that the carbon discs, ergo the brake calipers, have different dimensions.
Maybe the piston diameters are different too? (I do not know)

Difference brake discs:

front: 402 x 39 mm carbon to 390 x 36 steel
rear: 360 x 32 mm carbon to 360 x 26 steel

At the rear you could put + 3mm titanium sheets under the pads. Than it fits.

But front? Do the carbone brake calipers fit the steel discs? In width would also work with 1.5mm titanium sheets. But the diameter? Would have to sit 6mm too far out?

As far as I know, the carbone brake front calipers are not simply set to the outside, with 6mm spacers. (Would be technically possible, due the radial screw connection)

Does the front steel brake caliper fit? Don't know.

But I know for sure that the front steering knuckles differ, depending on the brake system.
The difference can only be, the brake caliber mounting point.


Like I said, just a thought with no practical experience.


Best regards

Stenzel

 

There have been plenty of guys on the forum that have made the swap from CCB to girodisc steel and I have seen AP racing (long time ago cant remember who) too

 

Good point. Make sure to buy the brake ducts still however.

 

Bish Is right I cannot stress this enough! GT class (unless pro or BS) need brake ducts if you are tracking if not you are going to kill the brakes ASAP. I use Tikt and i am very happy with their performance and build quality. Renntech also makes some and I believe there are some members that have made their own.

 

Regarding brake ducts, I am only seeing GTR kits available on TIKT and Renntech. Will those fit a GTS?

 

Really great discussion here. I am planning on changing my rear rotors/pads soon and am looking for a less expensive option. It looks like girodisc is a brand that others are getting. I have 2016 GTS, would these be the the rotors? https://www.girodisc.com/Rear-Rotors...GT_p_6851.html

what would be the best pads with these rotors? I’d be using this for mostly street use but the occasional track day.

 

With brake cooling ducts installed, are there any other durability or performance limitations using OEM iron rotors hard at the track with semi slicks and high speed braking (assuming correct pads, fluid, etc)?

I'm willing to live with brake dust if it saves me $10k in prematurely failed CCB rotors. On the other hand, if the CCB are durable, I sure hate brake dust!

 

MG1422 is your man as he runs the iron brakes, I think the Giros. Hopefully he answers soon. With the right pads, brake ducts and fluids he’s been very happy.

 

Thanks Bish.

Would you mind sharing why you sold the GTR? Was it track running costs?

I think I remember a few years ago you wrote something about this and the possibility that a dedicated track only car (perhaps Radical) was more affordable and a better choice for serious track day folks.

Hope you don't mind me asking. Your input has been very valuable and is appreciated.

 

I completely agree!

Thebishman is a wealth of knowledge. Learn something from him every time and I should say it more.

 

So due to Covid I simply wasn’t using the car as the local tracks were all closed. So I decided that having a depreciating asset sitting at the house not being used too much wasn’t a smart move so I sold it and got a decent price at the time. My thinking was I’d get a new C8 Z06/7 as my next car, but that plan has been royally screwed by the chip shortage; supply chain issues; delays in release of the car and worst of all, huge numbers of people getting in-line at the major dealerships so I’m looking at at least a couple of years to be able to order a car. In fact, I’ll have to just see if I can get one by seeing what is available in the ‘free’ market. No doubt there will be huge mark-ups over MSRP being asked by dealers selling ‘used’ cars and the flippers, but I’ll see what I can do. All in all my plan simply blew up in my face! lol

Running costs of the GTR had nothing to do with my decision as I think they’re fine for such a car. I had a dedicated set of wheels/tyres for the track and a set of the Michelin Pilot ZP Cup tyres from the C7 Z06/7 car lasted me at least two track weekends, and frankly given the outright speed/handling of the car having to buy expensive tyres on a regular basis is just something one has to expect if you are a decently fast driver. I had Pagid RSC1s F and R on the car and they lasted well and performed great; you always want to replace the pads when using the CCBs on track when the pads get down to no less than 1/3rd of their original thickness in order to save excess heat getting into the rotors and causing markedly increased oxidation which is what ‘kills’ them. (Btw: always check the inner pads prior to heading out to the track as they tend to wear slightly quicker than the outer pads; this told to me by one of the main mechanics at the AMG Driving School). If Covid hadn’t screwed the track season I was going to get the Tikt brake ducts as they are worth every penny.

Long story short: I made a mistake selling the car and have been kicking myself ever since!

Re: Dedicated track car. I started HPDEs in 1995 and rapidly progressed to being always one of the fastest drivers in the ‘Red’ run groups. I was constantly buying/trading cars to go faster and increase my enjoyment. Looking back and shaking my head at the expenditures over many, many years a vehicle such as a Radical, etc. towed to the track would have saved me a bunch of money! lol. But then I’d have missed the fun of also getting to drive a ‘Sports’ car on the street at times as well, so as always: trade-offs!

Bish

 

Thank you for this. Coming from someone as knowledgeable and giving to the forum as yourself it means much!

 

I have been tracking my 2016 GT-S since I bought it in 2015, and have only used the OEM iron disks from Brembo. Brembo makes the rotrs for Mercedes and they are inexpensive.

AMG GT-R Brembo rotors: https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/e...79/000123743-1

AMG GT-S Brembo rotors: https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/e...78/000108074-1

The rotors for the GT-S and GT-R are the same 390 mm rotors, Brembo model 09.9313.33 and can often be had for less than $350 each, and with some brake cooling they last fairly long, and since they are so cheap to replace, I always have a spare set in the garage. ear rotors last a super long time, so while they are quite a bit more expensive, the running cost is very low. For pads in the front I use pads from a Nissan GT-R which fit fine, usually DTC60 or 70 compound, and for rear pads I get them custom made in the same compound by contacting Porterfield. As others have said car needs brake cooling, but I only have that in the front as I have not had issues with rapid brake wear in the rear.

For tires I have run Sport Cups, Nitto NT01's, Dunlop SP Sport Max Race, and I am now running Goodyear Supercar 3's which are very good on track for a 200 plus street tire. I have 2 sets of spare OEM wheels for the GT-S and always have a fresh set of tires available.

I have seen no need to upgrade to any aftermarket rotors, and I have done a lot of laps.