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area27 in Canada. Current air temps are 22.5c and 72.5 F
Hmm... 72/73*F is not really in the range to pull timing. I wanted to eliminate that first BC not much out there will help an air charge when it's coming in at about 86*F and above.
Those temps are your tire temps ... specifically, the temperature of the air inside the tires. Assuming you're running Cup 2 tires, you're actually pretty close to the ideal tire temp. I've attached the applicable section of a Michelin presentation that details why I say that.
Depending upon how long you've been running and the ambient/track temperatures ... i.e., how quickly the inside-tire air will be heated vs just the tread, there will be a lag and some difference between the inside-tire air temp and the tire-tread temp. From watching the tread wear, I'm guessing that you can figure about 10 deg C to 20 deg C difference. With the typical temps at Area 27 (my fav BC track!), it's generally going to be on the higher (difference) side (so 20 deg C) unless it's an unusual/cloudy day.
I'd recommend upping the target hot-tire pressure to more like 35-37 PSI (GTR Pro). I ran a pretty consistent 33-36 PSI at my last cloudy and max 20 deg C track day and saw more/excessive wear on the outside edges than I saw when running a few more PSI, hot. I find that the Cup 2s do get "greasy" at around 40 PSI and/or when my display shows over 90 deg C.
BTW, the green/yellow/red indicators are relative and based upon what you have set as "normal" ... which AFAIK is whatever the pressures/temps were when you last did a reset at the tire-readings screen.
Hope that helps and that you have a great time at Area 27.
Those temps are your tire temps ... specifically, the temperature of the air inside the tires. Assuming you're running Cup 2 tires, you're actually pretty close to the ideal tire temp. I've attached the applicable section of a Michelin presentation that details why I say that.
Depending upon how long you've been running and the ambient/track temperatures ... i.e., how quickly the inside-tire air will be heated vs just the tread, there will be a lag and some difference between the inside-tire air temp and the tire-tread temp. From watching the tread wear, I'm guessing that you can figure about 10 deg C to 20 deg C difference. With the typical temps at Area 27 (my fav BC track!), it's generally going to be on the higher (difference) side (so 20 deg C) unless it's an unusual/cloudy day.
I'd recommend upping the target hot-tire pressure to more like 35-37 PSI (GTR Pro). I ran a pretty consistent 33-36 PSI at my last cloudy and max 20 deg C track day and saw more/excessive wear on the outside edges than I saw when running a few more PSI, hot. I find that the Cup 2s do get "greasy" at around 40 PSI and/or when my display shows over 90 deg C.
BTW, the green/yellow/red indicators are relative and based upon what you have set as "normal" ... which AFAIK is whatever the pressures/temps were when you last did a reset at the tire-readings screen.
Hope that helps and that you have a great time at Area 27.
Unreal. Thank you for the info.
I am running Cup 2 Rs (285 front and 335 on the rear) today. I will certainly bump the target pressure up tomorrow. I've always targeted 32/33 when they were hot. Did that when I was running the Cup 2 ZPs as well. Really funny if for the last 2.5yrs I've been shredding tires due to stupidity.
A27 is a great track. I was just speaking with some fellas that got to test out the new Calgary track a few weeks back. Thinking of trying to hit that this summer as well.
how often do you guys see temps like this when you are driving! I have the Tikt brake ducts as well.
Thoughts? I was also losing throttle power/response towards the final half of my 20 minutes.
Car is currently without tune.
I was at Laguna seca yesterday with Cup2 Rs (11 HC), and the ambient temp is around 20-22C, my tire temperature is around 180-190F (85-87c) with 37PSI. The cup2s are very light, but they are not very heat tolerant, it was a "3 laps" tire for me for the most of the time if I push hard, once they go over to 38PSI they become very greasy. I'm still exploring other options, but likely will try out Nankang AR-1 in the future.
... Really funny if for the last 2.5yrs I've been shredding tires due to stupidity. ...
Not stupid ... it's all a learning experience. The Cup 2 Rs may be somewhat different. It's always one of those "watch 'n learn" issues. I tend to be fairly rigorous about measuring and collecting data so I can try to analyze/learn. As a geek type, that's part of the fun.
I'd be interested to hear any comments you want to share on the Cup 2 vs Cup 2 Rs vs ZPs, wear-related info included and especially since you've run all 3.
Not stupid ... it's all a learning experience. The Cup 2 Rs may be somewhat different. It's always one of those "watch 'n learn" issues. I tend to be fairly rigorous about measuring and collecting data so I can try to analyze/learn. As a geek type, that's part of the fun.
I'd be interested to hear any comments you want to share on the Cup 2 vs Cup 2 Rs vs ZPs, wear-related info included and especially since you've run all 3.
I’ll report back on there Cup 2rs after the next two days.
The fastest I’ve been was on the ZPs but I’ve put in 10+ days since those. I have a set waiting to go back on after these are cooked - also have some Hoosier R7s waiting.
I would have liked to run these cup 2 Rs at my local track for direct comparison.
Wear seems to be alright so far. Regular cup2s are just so reliable I’ve found - I’ll push these tomorrow and see where we end up!
Those temps are just at the higher end of optimal as I find.
I find that after 85C the SC2 ZPs start to drop off. No comments on Rs.
My pressures at that temp are usually sitting around 35 psi.
You are actually very balanced IMO.
I can get about 5 hot laps on the ZPs at Area 27.
I was there about 4 weeks ago.
Turned a 2:15.8, still have easy another 2-3 seconds I think.
I have also experienced some throttle lag too as you described.
Last edited by canucklehead; 06-21-2022 at 10:57 AM.
Those temps are just at the higher end of optimal as I find.
I find that after 85C the SC2 ZPs start to drop off. No comments on Rs.
My pressures at that temp are usually sitting around 35 psi.
You are actually very balanced IMO.
I can get about 5 hot laps on the ZPs at Area 27.
I was there about 4 weeks ago.
Turned a 2:15.8, still have easy another 2-3 seconds I think.
I have also experienced some throttle lag too as you described.
Thanks for chiming in. On the zps I was running g in the 2:17s a couple years back. So far im in the 2:23s this week.
what is your rebound set at? Did you play with the coil overs? My rebound is set to max currently
Thanks for chiming in. On the zps I was running g in the 2:17s a couple years back. So far im in the 2:23s this week.
what is your rebound set at? Did you play with the coil overs? My rebound is set to max currently
Have not played with any settings yet. I have a personal goal of shaving about 1 more second off consistently at my home track before I start messing around.
Have not played with any settings yet. I have a personal goal of shaving about 1 more second off consistently at my home track before I start messing around.
i wonder what your stock rebound settings are at. My car had different settings in each when it arrived. Mercedes just turned them up. Not sure if that’s best or not at all
1: the ZP is worth at least 3-4 seconds per lap on any decent length track imho versus the OEM SC2;
2: I’m really surprised at how high some of you are running the psi on the tyres. I generally started around 26 psi cold, and was aiming for a hot psi on the ZPs of around 32/33 psi. Any higher than that and the tyre became ‘greasy’ much sooner it seemed.
1: the ZP is worth at least 3-4 seconds per lap on any decent length track imho versus the OEM SC2;
2: I’m really surprised at how high some of you are running the psi on the tyres. I generally started around 26 psi cold, and was aiming for a hot psi on the ZPs of around 32/33 psi. Any higher than that and the tyre became ‘greasy’ much sooner it seemed.
I usually start around 26psi as well, but usually it would end up with 35-36 (depends on the track). I do find that lower psi has more grip but sometimes could have a bit of rollover on the tire, felt like there weren't enough sidewall support.
Regarding cup2 vs cup2 zp vs cup2 R, I've done all three on 3 different tracks (Sonoma raceway, Laguna Seca, Thunderhill Raceway), the data I had in comparison is:
1. Cup2 R is the absolute king for the first 3 HC, but then it has a much faster drop off vs ZP and regular Cup2. They pretty much have nothing left after 8-10 HC if pushed hard. They are also the least heat resistant.
2. ZP is the most consistent, about 90% of peak grip compared to cup2 R, but the drop off is much gradual and it does stay in a relative ok range for me even after 10 HCs.
3. Regular Cup2 (MO) has the least peak grip, the drop off is in between ZP and Cup2 R. I wouldn't recommend them as the selection as it's not balanced for neither performance nor longevity.
I think the front tire sizes for GTR now are much more common, the rears are a struggle to find the right sizes, hope more manufacturers see the growth of GT community and produce the size.
I usually start around 26psi as well, but usually it would end up with 35-36 (depends on the track). I do find that lower psi has more grip but sometimes could have a bit of rollover on the tire, felt like there weren't enough sidewall support.
Regarding cup2 vs cup2 zp vs cup2 R, I've done all three on 3 different tracks (Sonoma raceway, Laguna Seca, Thunderhill Raceway), the data I had in comparison is:
1. Cup2 R is the absolute king for the first 3 HC, but then it has a much faster drop off vs ZP and regular Cup2. They pretty much have nothing left after 8-10 HC if pushed hard. They are also the least heat resistant.
2. ZP is the most consistent, about 90% of peak grip compared to cup2 R, but the drop off is much gradual and it does stay in a relative ok range for me even after 10 HCs.
3. Regular Cup2 (MO) has the least peak grip, the drop off is in between ZP and Cup2 R. I wouldn't recommend them as the selection as it's not balanced for neither performance nor longevity.
I think the front tire sizes for GTR now are much more common, the rears are a struggle to find the right sizes, hope more manufacturers see the growth of GT community and produce the size.
Have not played with any settings yet. I have a personal goal of shaving about 1 more second off consistently at my home track before I start messing around.
Have not played with any settings yet. I have a personal goal of shaving about 1 more second off consistently at my home track before I start messing around.
That looks like fun. You're supposed to wave when you get a point by.
What did you have the traction control set at?
TC is set to 2nd red light but I am finding that too restrictive now. I am now working at turning TC completely off just before entering hairpins.
No need for a wave, it is a passing zone with point to pass only. It is expected.
Last edited by canucklehead; 06-22-2022 at 10:53 AM.
... 1. Cup2 R is the absolute king for the first 3 HC, ...
I very much appreciate the report but, to me, it's unclear what HC stands for ... can you enlighten me (and I expect ridicule if I'm being dull-brained). #;-)
I very much appreciate the report but, to me, it's unclear what HC stands for ... can you enlighten me (and I expect ridicule if I'm being dull-brained). #;-)
I very much appreciate the report but, to me, it's unclear what HC stands for ... can you enlighten me (and I expect ridicule if I'm being dull-brained). #;-)
Like canucklehead answered above HC stands for heat cycle.
The Cup2R has some sort of special compound covering the most outer edge of the tires, so they perform almost like a hoosier in the first two HCs. But once that layer wears off, the performance level in the subsequent HCs drops drastically (no exaggerations here, the difference is staggering)
For that reason, the many manufacturers use the cup2 R as the time attack tires for laptime and the ring, but they are not "consistent" tires at all.
06-20-2022, 01:22 PM
