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Recently, Nankang updated the compound for their CR-S tire and began making the tire in the OEM AMG GTR sizing so I thought I would give them a try. According to Grassroots Motorsports, the new compound is supposed to increase heat tolerance at the cost of warm up time. This is generally a good tradeoff for track days while less ideal for auto-x. Prior to the CR-S, I ran the Cup 2 ZP's. I was able to do two track days with each tire in similar conditions (70-75* in the morning sessions and 80*+ in the afternoon sessions). First I will share my raw data and then give you my thoughts:
Car: 2020 AMG GTR Roadster
Track: Ridge Motorsports Park
Timing device: Garmin Catalyst
Modifications: Tikt font brake ducts, Pagid RSL29 pads
Cup 2 ZP size: 285/30/19 335/25/20
CR-S v2 size: 275/35/19 325/30/20
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Day 1: Cup 2 ZP
Optimal Lap: 1:42.16
Best Lap: 1:43.00
Day 2: Cup 2 ZP
Optimal Lap: 1:42.09
Best Lap 1:43.36
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Day 1: CR-S v2
Optimal Lap: 1:43.39
Best Lap 1:44.25
Day 2: CR-S v2
Optimal Lap 1:43.38
Best Lap 1:44.3
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First I would just like to say this car is just amazingly rapid on track. For reference, the fastest stock 992 GT3 did a 1:44.13 and the fastest stock(ish) GT4RS did a 1:45.4 at this track. Neither Porsche was on their optional Cup 2R tires but were both driven by racing drivers who have won a championship or two. So regardless of which tire, the car is an absolute track beast. Most of the cooler morning sessions had a lot of traffic, so for comparison’s sake I think it is more fair to compare the optimal lap but the results are really pretty much the same either way. I nearly did run an optimal lap on day 2 with the ZP’s but got blocked in the final set of turns. Unfortunate.
In the better morning conditions, the Cup 2 ZPs are reliably 1.3s faster than the CR-S and it is noticeable immediately. Pretty much everywhere there is just more grip. Despite the new CR-S compound being supposedly more heat resistant than the previous version, they are easy to overdrive and once they overheat, they fall off fairly quickly. On the plus side, before they overheat their break away characteristics are very progressive compared to the ZP’s which makes you want to push them. Unfortunately, once they do overheat the loss of grip is sudden which can result in much longer braking distances or pronounced slides. This definitely leads to some confidence issues if pushing more than one lap at a time. On the flip side, the ZPs tend to let go quite a bit faster but loss of grip due to overheating is more progressive. In the afternoon, when temps got to the upper 80s, the ZPs were the clear winner. Where the CR-S dropped 2+ seconds in pace, the ZPs only dropped a second or so. Toning down my driving did allow me to run very consistent times with the CR-S in the heat. I was able to run within a few tenths lap after lap as long as I didn't allow the tires to slip too much. Overall, the results were very consistent over the entire test and will be going back to the ZPs as my track day tire moving forward.
Results:
Cup 2 ZP
+ 1.3s faster in good conditions
+ 2s faster in hot conditions
+ Fast all the way to the cords
- Snappy break away
- 12 x 20 minute sessions, 66 laps, and tire corded (not pre heat cycled)
CR-S
+ Progressive break away, easy to push to the limit
+ Very consistent at 8/10ths of their limit
+ Lasted 138 laps, more than twice as many as the C2ZP
- Sudden loss of grip when over heated
- Slower all around, especially in hot conditions
Edit: I am not going to rewrite my original review, but at the time of writing I thought that these tires would last about as long as A052's or other tires in the super 200tw category. They in fact lasted much longer than expected and this changes my opinion of them quite a bit. Costing half as much as the C2ZP to run makes it easy for me to recommend the CR-S unless you absolutely need the fastest tire. If that is the case, the Cup 2R may actually be faster (have not tested personally). Is 1.3 seconds worth double the cost? That is a personal decision I will leave to you.
Last edited by amgeethx; 09-11-2023 at 05:54 PM.
Reason: updated results to encompass further reflections in the thread
Thank you for the great comparison and data capture!!
I'm eager to try out the CR-S v2 as well. Surprised that your experience shows that despite the advocated increased heat tolerance the CR-S still perform less than the ZP.
Are there a special version of the ZP to look for ? Corvette Spec ? Cup 2 R any faster ?
Yes, the ZP's are Corvette spec and only come in two sizes. Apparently outside of the US the GTR could be optioned with these tires from the factory.
One thing I forgot to mention in my review is that the ZP's had pretty good grip until the bitter end. They definitely ran out of tread before they heat cycled out. The CR-S seem to be wearing well, but do not yet know if they will heat cycle out or run out of tread first. Here is a pic of the ZPs when I retired them:
Yes, the ZP's are Corvette spec and only come in two sizes. Apparently outside of the US the GTR could be optioned with these tires from the factory.
One thing I forgot to mention in my review is that the ZP's had pretty good grip until the bitter end. They definitely ran out of tread before they heat cycled out. The CR-S seem to be wearing well, but do not yet know if they will heat cycle out or run out of tread first. Here is a pic of the ZPs when I retired them:
nice. How many HC on those ? I have been running AR1 for long time. New CRS seems as good if not a little better. Surprised me.
have never tried the Michelins. Do they come up to temp quickly ? Nankangs heat up so fast. On and off the track.
I also think that based on your test the CUP2 ZP has a bigger advantage if you use the same tire size on the rear axle.
The CR-S 325/30/20 has a diameter of 27.7" but the CUP-2ZP 335/25/20 has only 26.6". It means that you are running the car's engine RPM at higher rate on the CUP2 vs the CR-S, in order to achieve the same speed. IMO, there is about additional +4% time advantage to the CUP-2 ZP
Someone I know said he can toast a set in as little as 1.5 track days. Ughhh.
The C2ZP had 12 heat cycles on them, all roughly 20 minute sessions, and they were done. The CR-S have roughly the equivalent at this point but look like they will last quite a few more days. If longevity is more of a concern, the CR-S may be a good option. I don’t know yet for sure though because they may heat cycle out before running out of tread. I’ll update this thread once I know for sure. Of course, track conditions and driving style are all going to play a part so your mileage may vary.
The C2ZP had 12 heat cycles on them, all roughly 20 minute sessions, and they were done. The CR-S have roughly the equivalent at this point but look like they will last quite a few more days. If longevity is more of a concern, the CR-S may be a good option. I don’t know yet for sure though because they may heat cycle out before running out of tread. I’ll update this thread once I know for sure. Of course, track conditions and driving style are all going to play a part so your mileage may vary.
On Rennlist iirc owners are stating whilst tread depth may still look decent, the tyre actually HC’s out well before then.
At the beginning of my season this year I threw a set of the CR-S 2023 compounds on the car.
Searching for a cheaper lapping day tire.
Depending on the Canadian exchange rate the CR-S are about $1000-$1200 CAD cheaper than the Cup 2 ZP.
I now have 2 local suppliers so, they may be cheaper next time.
The CR-S definitely allow a bit more slip where as the Cup 2 ZPs are always planted (up till about 3rd track day) .
I have only the one day on the the CR-S as I have not had time to take the car out again on them.
Started out the day about 5 seconds off pace and then by end of day, about 2-3 seconds off. Each session I was building more confidence with the new tire.
At the beginning of my season this year I threw a set of the CR-S 2023 compounds on the car.
Searching for a cheaper lapping day tire.
Depending on the Canadian exchange rate the CR-S are about $1000-$1200 CAD cheaper than the Cup 2 ZP.
I now have 2 local suppliers so, they may be cheaper next time.
The CR-S definitely allow a bit more slip where as the Cup 2 ZPs are always planted (up till about 3rd track day) .
I have only the one day on the the CR-S as I have not had time to take the car out again on them.
Started out the day about 5 seconds off pace and then by end of day, about 2-3 seconds off. Each session I was building more confidence with the new tire.
was nice meeting you in person.
another local guy with Pro said he liked the cup 2 R better than ZP. He is also the one that said he can toast them in under two track days if he’s pushing hard. He’s same pace as I am. 1:35 to low 1:36s on the cup 2. I haven’t tried them yet. Sounds like I’d get a PB with them though.
New CRS very similar to AR1 for me. Did well second day.
At the beginning of my season this year I threw a set of the CR-S 2023 compounds on the car.
Searching for a cheaper lapping day tire.
Depending on the Canadian exchange rate the CR-S are about $1000-$1200 CAD cheaper than the Cup 2 ZP.
I now have 2 local suppliers so, they may be cheaper next time.
The CR-S definitely allow a bit more slip where as the Cup 2 ZPs are always planted (up till about 3rd track day) .
I have only the one day on the the CR-S as I have not had time to take the car out again on them.
Started out the day about 5 seconds off pace and then by end of day, about 2-3 seconds off. Each session I was building more confidence with the new tire.
In the US the C2ZP's are $2,324.54 and the CR-S are $1,898.00 on Tire Rack which is a savings of $426.54. However, I get a 15% discount on Michelin tires so I end up paying only $1,975.85 for a total savings of $77.86. For $77 in savings, it is not really worth it to me to run the much slower tire unless they last significantly longer. Even then, I didn't appreciate the dramatic drop off when overheated or in hot weather when compared to the C2ZP. Its much easier for me to trust the C2ZP and I feel like I am more driving the car than I am the tire due to less variance in available grip.
As for the C2R, I have never heard anything good about those tires except they are really fast for the first two sessions and then they are slower than normal Cup 2s after that. Maybe the M01 version is better?
In the US the C2ZP's are $2,324.54 and the CR-S are $1,898.00 on Tire Rack which is a savings of $426.54. However, I get a 15% discount on Michelin tires so I end up paying only $1,975.85 for a total savings of $77.86. For $77 in savings, it is not really worth it to me to run the much slower tire unless they last significantly longer. Even then, I didn't appreciate the dramatic drop off when overheated or in hot weather when compared to the C2ZP. Its much easier for me to trust the C2ZP and I feel like I am more driving the car than I am the tire due to less variance in available grip.
As for the C2R, I have never heard anything good about those tires except they are really fast for the first two sessions and then they are slower than normal Cup 2s after that. Maybe the M01 version is better?
interesting ….. I didn’t experience any big drop off in grip late session with the 2023 CRS. I know the old ones did that….. you seem to know a lot more about them than i do. I dont Even know what M01 stands for. Laguna makes a lot more Tire noise well before breaking loose than before. Once it’s broken in that will go away. Wonder if that’s part of what you experienced ?
Pretty sure the other guy said both the ZP and the R could be shot after 1.5 days at our pace but I’ll double check.
tempted to try them but hate to lose half a track day if that’s true.
I did find the CR-S quite a bit noisier than the ZP but my issue was there is an abrupt fall off in grip after doing a push lap. If I backed off the pace about a second or so it could run those times consistently. It's just a matter of managing the tires better, they don't do well on the limit for too long. That is kind of sad because before they overheat they are super easy to drive right on the limit. Here is a hot afternoon session I did where I did try to just manage tire heat. As you can see here it is actually very consistent:
A push lap in the afternoon heat was a low 1:46, but after that the tire would immediately become a handful to drive resulting in very inconsistent and slow times.
M01 just means it is a Mercedes specific tire construction similar to N0 for Porsche. Compounds between manufacturer specs can be wildly different. I don't really know anyone else who tracks a Mercedes seriously around here so most of the feedback on the C2R I hear about is from Porsche people. The issue with the C2R (at least in Porsche spec) isn't that it runs out of tread, it's that it literally heat cycles out in 2 sessions. In Europe, there is a C2R M02 that is a harder compound designed for the black series but it is horribly expensive.
I did find the CR-S quite a bit noisier than the ZP but my issue was there is an abrupt fall off in grip after doing a push lap. If I backed off the pace about a second or so it could run those times consistently. It's just a matter of managing the tires better, they don't do well on the limit for too long. That is kind of sad because before they overheat they are super easy to drive right on the limit. Here is a hot afternoon session I did where I did try to just manage tire heat. As you can see here it is actually very consistent:
A push lap in the afternoon heat was a low 1:46, but after that the tire would immediately become a handful to drive resulting in very inconsistent and slow times.
M01 just means it is a Mercedes specific tire construction similar to N0 for Porsche. Compounds between manufacturer specs can be wildly different. I don't really know anyone else who tracks a Mercedes seriously around here so most of the feedback on the C2R I hear about is from Porsche people. The issue with the C2R (at least in Porsche spec) isn't that it runs out of tread, it's that it literally heat cycles out in 2 sessions. In Europe, there is a C2R M02 that is a harder compound designed for the black series but it is horribly expensive.
Im used to AR1. Those are noisy !! Well after one track day they are fine I have found.
are you talking about the the 2023 CRS tires ? I haven’t driven them in heat yet. 70 degrees out both times.
The other guy I know said both the C2R and the ZP only had 3 good HC before dropping off dramatically.
AR1 are great overall. Drop off day 2 isn’t terrible.
same for new CRS. Will report back on day 3 performance.
The ZP definitely did not heat cycle out at all. I put in my nearly (got blocked) fastest lap right before I retired them due to showing cords. They do take a bit longer to heat up after a few heat cycles though. At the end, I was having to do two warm up laps before pushing it.
are you talking about the the 2023 CRS tires ? I haven’t driven them in heat yet. 70 degrees out both times.
Yes, I am talking about the 2023 CRS tires, aka v2. I can't presume to know what your driving style is or how hard you are pushing, but if you stay within 8 or 9/10ths of what the tire can do you will likely not see the same issue.
Great discussion and feedback, thank you to the OP for posting this!
On 1 car I have Sport Cup 2 and Nankang AR1, on another Sport Cup 2 and Toyo R888R.
Been wanting to try the CRS from Nankang, or the Black Series Sport Cup 2R tires…..for some reason I am not a fan of the skinny 30series/25 series sidewalls on the Michelin ZP tire offering at track…..but maybe I need to rethink that.
I am wondering if anyone has purchased the ARS, (or MPSC ZP come to think of it), 'heat cycled' from Tirerack before using it, and if that enhances longevity?
Obviously the method used by Tirerack which I assume is just mounting the tyre and then spinning it up under load on a roller, isn't as good as the ultimate way to truly condition a new Ultra high performance tyre where one slowly works them up to about 7-8/10ths during a run session, then let's them sit for at least 24 hours before using them again.
I purchased the CR-S heat cycled and they seem to be holding up extremely well. I was not able to get the C2ZP heat cycled or properly break them in because I was on a very tight timeline.
Question, does anyone here have first hand knowledge about the Black Series C2R? I am considering giving those a test next but really don't want a 2 session tire.
I purchased the CR-S heat cycled and they seem to be holding up extremely well. I was not able to get the C2ZP heat cycled or properly break them in because I was on a very tight timeline.
Question, does anyone here have first hand knowledge about the Black Series C2R? I am considering giving those a test next but really don't want a 2 session tire.
I was looking at that too. There are two BS versions. One is softer for street and track. The other is harder for track. Appear to be 20 inch front though. …..
08-04-2023, 09:03 PM
