GT BS Tires: Michelin PS4S?
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GT BS Tires: Michelin PS4S?
Hello!
does anyone have experience putting Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on their AMG GT Black Series? I’ll be taking mine to the Pacific Northwest soon and fear the cup 2 Rs are going to be unusable for street driving with some rain and cold weather/surfaces.
Thanks!
does anyone have experience putting Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on their AMG GT Black Series? I’ll be taking mine to the Pacific Northwest soon and fear the cup 2 Rs are going to be unusable for street driving with some rain and cold weather/surfaces.
Thanks!
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From: Brooklyn, NY
2018 GT R; G82; M340
PS4S is a summer tire and the sidewall will crack when driving in the cold weather.
"The Pilot Sport 4S is Michelin's Max Performance Summer tire…Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle."
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-pilot-sport-4s
I'd suggest getting a different set of wheels with winter tires for a safe driving with your $300k+ RWD vehicle.
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2019 C63CS
PNW gets a bit colder than the SF Bay Area, but nothing like New York I think. No snow and lows in the upper 30s in PNW as far as I can see and mostly rain. New York gets cold and gets snow, even blizzards. Definitely wouldn't drive on PS4S on the east coast, but FWIW, I'm on PS4S all year around here on the west coast. Winters are mild here. Compound cracking is really only an issue if temps drop into the 20s. Some nights it can drop into the 30s here in the SF area, but during the day it's mostly in the 40s and 50s. 40s and upper 30s are fine for the PS4S. They actually do quite well in those temps. They don't have a ton of grip, so I do struggle with hooking up on cold days, but the 9 stage TC is quite good. The PS4S also does pretty well in the wet. The PSS my C63S came stock with struggled much more in the winter here.
I am gonna say this, though. I drove the BS on the Nürburgring with PS4S. They were expecting rain that day, so mounted the PS4S. It ended up not raining, but it struggled and TC constantly killed the power around corners. We were not allowed to turn off ESP, so driving it on the PS4S fast was a disappointment. Seems the 9 stage TC is tuned somewhat more conservative in the BS. I didn't have those issues with my C63S on the Nürburgring even on the stock PSS.
I am gonna say this, though. I drove the BS on the Nürburgring with PS4S. They were expecting rain that day, so mounted the PS4S. It ended up not raining, but it struggled and TC constantly killed the power around corners. We were not allowed to turn off ESP, so driving it on the PS4S fast was a disappointment. Seems the 9 stage TC is tuned somewhat more conservative in the BS. I didn't have those issues with my C63S on the Nürburgring even on the stock PSS.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 16, 2023 at 12:47 PM.
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Hmm interesting on the cup 2 r experience in the rain. I’m gonna give it a whirl but am nervous about it.
And correct on the weather.. if it’s below 0 Celsius I’m not going anywhere near the BS (or the Pacific NW for that matter). So good point on the PS4S but perhaps a key difference on east coast vs west coast weather. I should have clarified that up front.
Sucks to hear how poorly they performed when driving “more spirited” though. That really defeats the purpose.
What other options are there that provide more traction in the rain vs the cup 2 Rs? Regular cup 2s? Or is that splitting hairs…?
And correct on the weather.. if it’s below 0 Celsius I’m not going anywhere near the BS (or the Pacific NW for that matter). So good point on the PS4S but perhaps a key difference on east coast vs west coast weather. I should have clarified that up front.
Sucks to hear how poorly they performed when driving “more spirited” though. That really defeats the purpose.
What other options are there that provide more traction in the rain vs the cup 2 Rs? Regular cup 2s? Or is that splitting hairs…?
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I'll say it again, on 2 different cars I've seen the following data on a wet track, both with temps in the 50-60 deg F range with no ability to heat the tires:
- PS4S : starts sliding at just over 0.9 G lateral
- Cup 2: starts sliding at 0.6 G lateral
The Cup 2s will do better if you can get some heat into them -- i.e., just damp roads and/or higher ambient temps and you work the tire a lot (not on public roads) -- but still won't match the PS4S in the wet.
To me, that makes the Cup 2 tries somewhat dangerous in colder wet weather conditions. When I do a GTR "keep it lubed" run on our (Vancouver area) cool 'n wet roads, I take it _very_ easy on the throttle. I've tested the traction on a straight on the track and, by sudden WOT, can get it to break loose at 150 kph (93 mph) and, even when "rolling on the throttle" will often break loose up to 130 kph (80 mph). This is all with the car in race mode and normal TC on. I assume comfort and slippery modes would do a little better.
BTW, I've never been able to find PS4S in the sizes with load ratings that are spec'd for the GTR/BS.
- PS4S : starts sliding at just over 0.9 G lateral
- Cup 2: starts sliding at 0.6 G lateral
The Cup 2s will do better if you can get some heat into them -- i.e., just damp roads and/or higher ambient temps and you work the tire a lot (not on public roads) -- but still won't match the PS4S in the wet.
To me, that makes the Cup 2 tries somewhat dangerous in colder wet weather conditions. When I do a GTR "keep it lubed" run on our (Vancouver area) cool 'n wet roads, I take it _very_ easy on the throttle. I've tested the traction on a straight on the track and, by sudden WOT, can get it to break loose at 150 kph (93 mph) and, even when "rolling on the throttle" will often break loose up to 130 kph (80 mph). This is all with the car in race mode and normal TC on. I assume comfort and slippery modes would do a little better.
BTW, I've never been able to find PS4S in the sizes with load ratings that are spec'd for the GTR/BS.
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2019 C63CS
Yeah, the Cup 2 is no bueno in the wet for two reasons. Compound and thread pattern is for the dry and the thread depth starts lower than with street tires, so a Cup 2 is essentially already partly worn compared to a new PS4S. Starts at 7.1/32" if I remember correctly, whereas street tires typically start at 10/32". Wet traction is mostly about the tires being able to evacuate the water, so you want plenty of thread depth. A worn down PS4S doesn't do well in the wet, either. Even in the dry, the PS4S is superior on the street. The Cup 2 needs a lot of heat in them.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 16, 2023 at 03:23 PM.
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Hey guys. I live in Oregon and I use my AMG GTC as a daily driver. I found the PS4S s to be way too squirrely on the wet roads and so I went with the Continentals. I prefer the PS4S across the board except for when it gets cold and wet. I find them to be horrible in the cold rain. The Continentals are much better in the cold rain but not great on the track in my opinion especially when they get heated up. When I say cold I'm talking 50s and below. If you're coming to Oregon and you're going to be in the rain and it's going to be cold, I suggest you bring a set of Continentals.
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Hey guys. I live in Oregon and I use my AMG GTC as a daily driver. I found the PS4S s to be way too squirrely on the wet roads and so I went with the Continentals. I prefer the PS4S across the board except for when it gets cold and wet. I find them to be horrible in the cold rain. The Continentals are much better in the cold rain but not great on the track in my opinion especially when they get heated up. When I say cold I'm talking 50s and below. If you're coming to Oregon and you're going to be in the rain and it's going to be cold, I suggest you bring a set of Continentals.
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They are pretty good in the cold rain. If you take a look at their tread pattern you will see why. Looking forward to seeing you on the roads!
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