Alan Smithee

You are incorrect. Look at any of those AutoTrader listings with rear photos...they will say CDI, not Bluetec. The Bluetec utility vehicles you saw at the LA Auto Show are show cars...not for sale to the public.

Green E-300 DT

Where do you see any of those new listings on AutoTrader that show the rear ends of any new vehicles?
Show me.

BTW, there were Maroney stickers available for all of those various
Bluetecs on display at the greater Los Angeles Autoshow.

Too bad you did not go to the show.

harkgar

Alan,

I second you on the badge issue. The R320 CDi I saw last month had the 320 CDi badge on the passenger side rear and not the Bluetec badge on the E-class diesel cars. However, I strongly suspect it has the same Bluetec system as the E320 CDi because it is very expensive to certify different engines for the same market.

Alan Smithee

I did go to the show. I saw the very same vehicles labeled 'Bluetec' you did. However, only the E320 Bluetec is currently available; the ML320 CDI and R320 CDI are NOT Bluetecs. There was a Grand Cherokee in the Jeep display with a 'Bluetec' badge as well...doesn't mean you can find one at a Jeep dealer.

harkgar, the ML- and R-classes are trucks, and require their own certification anyway. No point for MB to use and warranty expensive catalysts if not necessary to pass emissions.

lkchris

Were I to buy a 2007 diesel E-class, I'd remove the "bluetec" badge and replace it with CDI. "Bluetec" is dumb.

Nevada Jack

The E320 Bluetec has a system of catalytic modules and a particulate filter...when they add the Urea module in '08 it will become 50 state certified. The GL/ML/R CDI's have only the particulate filter and do not have the Bluetec catalytic modules and cannot use the Urea module when it becomes available. I would guess at that time the SUV's will switch to the Bluetec system so they can be 50 state certified.

harkgar

If you are right then I would go for a R or ML or a GL. The reason is simple. If the "trucks" are not Bluetec as you said then it is even better than the E. If these trucks are simply the equivalent of the European "CDi" engines that have been sold in Europe in the last year or two then they are just as OK as the straight six in terms of fuel requirements i.e. they cannot be harmed by the new ULSD.

This is a big plus. Imagine if you have just run out of diesel in the middle of nowhere you can pour in a few pints of ATF, old engine old and any environmentally unfriendly fluids and reach your destination. If you have the tree hugging new Bluetecs you are stuck. Sorry.

Alan Smithee

The only active thread in this forum says otherwise; the US-spec V6 CDI requires ULSD.

Remember, ULSD is only new to the US...not Europe.

Nevada Jack

Correct...any 2007 diesel must use ULSD, whether it be the E320 Bluetec or the CDI in the SUV's.

harkgar

Dear Jack + Green DT,

The car has the premium package (good value) and cashmere leather (just OK).

The Bluetec engine is fabulous, much stronger then the in-line six particularly on the move. No chattering. No smell. Very smooth. Even the 7-G transmission is great while moving. I wonder if it is the same one put into the E-63 or some watered down version?

However, the first gear bug is BAD. While slowing down to a halt to turn at a crossing there was this sudden nasty jerking when the transmission changed into first. I read on this board some DTB (published November 2006) saying this is a common fault.

Anyone else with a similar experience with the 7-G?

Green E-300 DT

I'm wondering if driving with the transmission in "C" mode would prevent this from happening.

These Bluetec cars have such tremendous low rpm torque.

Why do they need to take off from rest using first gear?

Nevada Jack

The transmission can be reprogrammed to eliminate the jerking problem. I had that with my '06 S 430 but it was not present in my '07 S550. I thought that problem had been pretty well eliminated. It was a problem early on with the tranny so take it to your dealer and have them reprogram it. Earlier models had to have a part replaced but this is probably just reprogramming...I hope anyway. Also the tranny has to learn and this may be a temporary thing...I really thought this problem had been eliminated with the 7G tranny.

Tuffy72

I picked my Bluetec up yesterday from the plant in Stuttgart. I only drove it for 50 mi, so I'm sure if I had enough time to be so accurate as I would like to. I turned it in today early so that if there was a ship leaving soon maybe they could get it manfested and I can get asap. I didn't have any jerky in my car transmission, evrything was smooth as a whistle. I'm not sure if that car you drove may have had maint issues with. My car responds like a sleek cat on the prowl then when I gassed (under 3000 rpm to break in) it was like a rocket very smooth made me happy I purchased it and not any other car. My cousin didn't know the car was even a diesel! The only thing I noticed is there is no coasting, the car slows after taking your foot of the gas, not sure if thats a deisel thing or not? I am guessing these test cars were not broken in properly and exibit the syntoms of an abused car. I have the p2 package with the panaroma roof and wood and leather steering wheel. You absoluty must at a min have those. It is a great car yea baby yea

harkgar

The car I drove was a sold car, brand new, off the boat car with under 100 km (62 miles) and the saleman only let me drive it for a few miles. Smooth and fast. The lack of coasting has something to do with the flywheel mass I think and particular to some diesel engines. With a premium of only a thousand dollars over the gas engine 350 the Bluetec is a no-brainer.

My tester has the premium package (rear electric sun shade, navigation, part wood shift knob and a few other things, CD$2,400) and cashmere leather (CD$2,500). The wood steering wheel is a great value option at CD$850).

US$1.00=CD$1.15.

oilbelcher

I have driven many old and new diesels, including Merc's. The lack of coasting -- I believe -- is partly due to the much higher compression ratio of a diesel engine. When not pressing the gas pedal, the resistence presented by the high compression will try to bring the engine back to idle RPM with more force. My father, a diesel machanic, really apprectiated this. This can help you reduce brake pad wear, allowing engine braking up to stop lights. I find it very annoying that some cars, especially some domestic cars I have driven, never seem to slow down after letting off the gas. Those gas engine cars just seem to keep going, requiring much more use of the brakes. Engine mechanics to confirm this?

The flywheel explanation: I would assume that the only way this explanation is true is if the diesel engine has a lighter-weight flywheel. A higher mass flywheel takes more force to start the flywheel spinning, but at the same time, would want to keep spinning with more force when letting off the gas. With the high torque of diesels, I would assume they have higher mass flywheels, so if true, this explantion doesn't seem to be true.

harkgar

Green DT,

Excuse my ignorance but what is the "C" mode and where is it located in the car? I only know that there are the W mode and S mode.

cyclerider

"C" mode is the same thing as "W" mode. They changed it a while back in the USA cars.

Green E-300 DT

I don't know when or why MBZ changed those letters, but here we are.

"W" Winter. Starts off from rest using second gear, therefore applying
less torque to the ground to avoid slippage under slippery conditions.

"C" Comfort. The same as "W" above. MBZ states it to be smoother or more comfortable.

"S" Summer. Allows the tranny to start off from rest using first gear.

This is controlled by an electrical switch located to the left of the shift lever at least on the older W-210s.
I don't remember where it is in the later cars having driven a 2005 CDI for only twenty
miles on a test drive in Lost Wages, but would assume it's in that same location?

In the first automatics MBZ sent to N A back in the early sixties before they even had torque convertors,
all their automatics took off in second gear unless the shift lever was in "L" or "1."

Oldsmobile did the same with their hydramatic equipped Rocket 88 in the early fifties to
keep the little old ladies from scaring themselves to death when they would mistakenly
apply too much throttle and light up the right rear tire.
At the same time, Olds loosened up their fluid coupling also.

Been so long that I have forgotten. This was before many on this forum were born.

harkgar

Alan,

I checked out the MB Canada site today and found that indeed the R and ML are both vehicles with the "common rail injection" or CDi engines, not the Bluetec system.

Both "trucks" if we include the R series as trucks, have the particulate or soot filter but not the other 3 pieces of junk (cats). These are the same or at least very similar to the European car engines that have been selling for the last couple of years. In the absence of the 3 cats the power output of the trucks are quoted as 221 horses (SAE) instead of the lower horses in Europe (224 DIN). It is a great pity MB USA and MB Canada put the Bluetec in the E and not the CDi system. The trucks cannot be damaged by the old fuel while the Bluetec cats can.

Green E-300 DT

True enough, especially considering that it wasn't even a 2007.

That Jeep was a 2005, and I seriously doubt that it has a diesel motor of any type under the hood.

It was there only to show what Chysler has in mind for later.

Alan Smithee

Exactly...as were the Bluetec utility vehicles at the MB display, which I pointed out back in post #71 of this thread and you've vehemently disputed in numerous posts since.

Green E-300 DT

There's just one thing wrong with your dumb comment.

I saw under the hood of one of those supposedly for display only
"utility vehicles" that you say wasn't a diesel. Did you?
I think not, for if you did, you wouldn't be so stupid to say what you said.

The "utility vehicle" that I saw under the hood of was indeed a V6 diesel for sure, and not like that
Jeep which couldn't have been a Bluetec or any other kind of diesel because it was a used 2005.

It seems to this writer that you go out of your way to make stupid statements.

Think before you write.

Green E-300 DT

What kind of fuel injection do you think the V6 Bluetecs have?

The reason MBZ put the Bluetec in the E-class is because the E
sedan will not pass EPA requirements unless that motor is used.

As soon as you're able to look underneath at any of the MBZ diesels whether trucks or the E-320 Bluetec
E-sedan, you will find that they all have the same emission equipment on their exhaust systems.
The only piece of equipment that they do not have now is that fourth piece
that will become manditory in 2008 when the "Blue" fluid is required.

You say "the absence of the 3 cats." Even my '99 had a "cat." All late MBZ have cats.

By law, all diesel fuel in the U S beginning in the fall of this year for road use must be ULSD.

I read that to use LSD fuel in any of the N A MBZ diesels will ruin
their injectors, and to do so will void their warranty.

Did you know that in N A begining with all 2007 diesel pickups produced
after January 1 must use ULSD for that very same reason?

harkgar

[QUOTE=Green E-300 DT;1894037]What kind of fuel injection do you think the V6 Bluetecs have?

The reason MBZ put the Bluetec in the E-class is because the E
sedan will not pass EPA requirements unless that motor is used.

As soon as you're able to look underneath at any of the MBZ diesels whether trucks or the E-320 Bluetec
E-sedan, you will find that they all have the same emission equipment on their exhaust systems.
The only piece of equipment that they do not have now is that fourth piece
that will become manditory in 2008 when the "Blue" fluid is required.

You say "the absence of the 3 cats." Even my '99 had a "cat." All late MBZ have cats.

I know the Bluetec E 320 CDi has 3 cats, one of them an "oxidizing" and the other two have different names (visit the MB USA site) and a particulate filter. If your 1999 diesel has a similar cat then what is so magical about the new Bluetecs without urea injection and why do they need 3 cats instead of 1? The Canadian MB site said that particulate filters in the ML and R get about 95% of soot only without mentioning anything about the 3 cats. There was also an article in Mercedes Enthusiasts (British monthly magazine) about the common rail V-6 CDi engines in 2005. In that extremely detailed article nothing was said about the cats.

If the high pressure injectors are vulnerable to non-ULSD then I cannot argue with you on this one.

Alan Smithee

Not once did I say the MB Bluetec utility vehicles weren't V6 diesels. My point, to make it perfectly clear once more, is that like the Jeep they are Bluetec-labeled display vehicles not currently for sale.

Getting really tired of your condescending comments. Here's a tip: Type with the same tone you'd take if the person you're engaging is sitting in front of you...and show some humility when you're proven wrong.