StevethePilot

The only true savings is in actual fuel for your own car, since currently they pay people to take away used frying oil. A CDI or BlueTec would probably not be able to burn the 100% stuff, unless you removed the solids and made it biodiesel. Even then, I think it's the emissions stuff on the BT that would screw it up, not the engine itself - a diesel engine could run on sawdust if you could find a way to inject it properly into the cylinders.

I agree that I love the sound of the diesel, there simply is no smell whatsoever out the back of the GL320 (though as a former deckhand in Alaska and a current flight instructor, I do like the smell of buring kerosene), and that low-end is utilized so wonderfully by 7 speeds of transmission, I do not miss high-revving petrol at all! (I also certainly don't miss 12mpg on a good day in the city.)

lzpoor

if it has a diesel engine it should run run on at least a percentage of biodiesel

harkgar

The bio-fuel savings are a small part of the big equation. You do not want to ruin that beautiful engine with inappropriate oils, even if there is very little doubt.

bbtrlb

We just bought a new GL 320 CDI.

I'd like to run biodiesel in it. Near my home there is a place about 5 miles away selling B99.

But when I look at the mercedes "position" page on Biodiesel, it says they only allow up to B5.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/O...o_position.pdf

My question: is there something about the new cdi engines made for burning ULSD that does not enable them to run on anything higher than B5?

I an not talking about vegetable oil here--this is commercially refined and produced biodiesel that is supposed to be ASTM certified, etc.

I'd really like to know if I can put B99 in, and if I can, I'd like to know why the official restriction to only B5?

The last thing I'd want to do is ruin something on this beautiful new vehicle, which is otherwise phenomenal.

Thanks for any help--sorry if these topics have been covered elsewhere, I did a quick search and didn't really find anything on point. It would really, really like to hear from someone who has successfully used biodiesel with the new MB cdi engines built for use with ULSD, like the one I have.

traumatic

I have a friend who is running B100 in his 2005 Jetta TDI. The TDIclub website has a lot of informative posts about running high percentage biodiesel in high pressure fuel injection systems. Simply, BD is much thicker than what is designed and wears out the pressure pump more quickly. BD also has better detergent qualities than diesel and loosen up a lot of debris in the lines and tanks (in cars that have run diesel) for a long time, which clogs the filters (OK) and the injector nozzles (bad). Also, because many individuals and co-ops blend and filter their own BD, VW and MB worry about particulate contamination in the fuel.

bbtrlb

So I take it you are not running bio through your 2005 cdi?

I have searched high and low and have not found anyone who will state that they have successfully run anything over B5 through their new mercedes diesel engines. I don't really want to be the first to try it. I figure I am going to let someone else be the guinea pig on this.

Finally, I thought biodiesel was only "thicker" at cold temps--I live in an area where this would only be an issue for maybe a month or two in the winter. It gtes below freezing maybe a total of 10 days a year in the winter here. Is the concern about stressing the pump valid even when the temp is always over 50 F even at night?

orb

I have an 1980 diesel and a 99. I am running half veggie oil/ half diesel in the 1980 with no conversion kit at all. I spoke to the people at love craft
http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/index.php
and they said any diesel Mercedes can run on veggie oil. They thin it with a conversion kit and increase the pressure to the injection pump. The 1980 runs smoother on the half and half mix. I am going to convert both to be able to run 100% veggie oil.

traumatic

[QUOTE=bbtrlb;2271932]So I take it you are not running bio through your 2005 cdi?

I've run a tank of B20 I bought at a large service station while on a trip to South Carolina. Worked just fine. I don't think I'd have a problem running B20 regularly, but it's not available anywhere around me. I don't have a problem buying commercially prepared biodiesel, but get a little nervous with stuff made in a still and filtered with a collander! Many of the guys who have made B100 popular are running them in OLD diesels with >100k miles and low pressure, large nozzle mechanical fuel systems that can pass small rocks without problems! Also, if they have a pump, injector or nozzle failure after a couple of years, they're out a few hundred bucks or have to find a new beater to drive. I just don't think its worth the risk of jeopardizing the warranty (and mechanical equipment) on a new $50,000 car.

There's a few OLD posts about safely running B20, even reporting a rumor that Willie Nelson has one. There's also one stating that a warranty repair was not honored when it was found to be due to biodiesel.

harkgar

[QUOTE=traumatic;2274420]How much can you save with bio? $300 dollars a year? I think the money saved is probably not significant enough to justify the warranty risk. The MB diesel engines are costly to replace.

harkgar

When is your Bluetec arriving in BC?

Post some photos. Inside and out.

bbtrlb

[QUOTE=harkgar;2274770]It has nothing to do with savings for me. My wife is convinced it is better for the environment, and she feels less guilty driving a huge SUV with biodiesel than driving a huge SUV that guzzles petro deisel or gasoline.

I am not about to void my warranty or damage the engine. I am just trying to figure out what actual harm biodiesel will do to this particular engine. My understanding is that it will not corrode the rubber hoses/gaskets, etc., because it is a newer car. But will it do other damage to the engine if I go higher than B5? Higher than B20? etc?

That is what I am trying to get at. All the local biodiesel guys here in Seattle keep saying you can use bio in any diesel engine, but I think they may be blowing smoke if they haven't actually run any bio through these new, advanced, and very different diesel engines.

MBZ_lover

Captain Negative
Not french fry or Mickie D's, refined biodiesel. Sure the truck that brought it probably runs on diesel but one has to start somewhere for change to happen.

Or we could all just act like republicans and throw doubt and negativity in everything. I prefer to think positive and move towards a greener world away from the current administration.

Might as well live in the fantasyland of oil independent, already had all the threesomes I need for this lifetime.

Untertürkheim

There is no need to convert an older car to run on properly made bio-diesel. B99 is sold in Marina Del Rey at a normal fuel station. Running on SVO or WVO is not good for your car and the conversion is just not the way to go.

Ashkan's C43

from what i hear frybird is the way to go for wvo and svo, check out their site, the kits look very well crafted

draaronr

[QUOTE=bbtrlb;2277569]

Willie Nelson is running B100 in his. So he says.

khaug

[quote=draaronr;2310184]Now, why an ignorant celebrity's recommendation should override the recommendations of the engineers that designed your car is between you and Willie Nelson!

Me, I'm sticking with MB's recommendation to limit my fueling to D2 diesel fuel. Apart from warranty and legal issues, I've found that ULSD works better (less "diesel clatter", less smoke), but that's as far as I'm willing to go. I'll leave the nuances (if there are such) to Willie and his celebrity income. He has an agenda of some sort, although I'm not sure who's paying his bills right now!

240D 3.0T

Willie has the celebrity budget to replace damage parts outside of the warranty.

Can you afford an $8,000 engine, $1000 high pressure pump, or $400 injectors ?

harkgar

I agree. Willie Nelson is the type of V-8 drivers that pretend they care for the environment.

If these hypocrites really meant it they should get rid of all their cars and ride bicycles or walk. If they do not have a driver's license they fly in jets, major pollutors.

bbtrlb

While I appreciate a good smartass remark as much as the next guy, I am still not seeing a concrete answer to my question here.

I know that MB only warrants to B5. Fine.

My question is: why? What does anything higher than that do to the engine, such that I would be required to "afford an $8,000 engine, $1000 high pressure pump, or $400 injectors."?

It is a simple question: what damage does Bio above B5 do to the engine? There must be some reason (other than fear of the unknown) that MB will not warrant above that level, right?

240D 3.0T

MB only approves B5 because there are no required standards for its manufacture and sale, only suggested standards. Same with SVO/WVO and homemade biodiesel, there are no standards required.

This puts MB at a disadvantage because there can be so many variables in the fuel quality and content between individual retailers.

It makes good business sense to sell fuel that won't damage the costumers' engine, but we all know how people have the desire to cut corners in the name of profit. Common rail engines, especially the current piezoelectric generation, are much more sensitive to contaminants than the old IDI engines with mechanical pumps. They have over 26,000psi in the fuel rail and can inject as little as 1/5th of a drop of fuel per injection event and up to 5 injection events per combustion cycle. A 6 cylinder engine at 3000rpm has 25 combustion events per second and as many as 125 injections per second, even more per second as you approach the engine's redline rpm.

Starting to see how fuel quality in a CDI is so important? This ain't your grandpa's John Deere tractor anymore.

Wolfgang

One reason is that biodiesel attacks the plastic parts. For B100 fuel lines would need to be changed to VESTAMID® LX9013 or similar. Here's some more info. Mercedes is reportedly working on B10, or maybe even B20 approval.



Special polyamide 12 compound

Clearing the way for the new fuel generation

Currently, B100-grade biodiesel may only be used if manufacturers expressly designate their vehicles as being compatible with this pure form of biodiesel. There is a good reason for this restriction: the solvent nature of certain chemical properties in biofuel can damage plastic and rubber components in the engine and fuel systems. Here again biodiesel adds complexity to the challenge - above and beyond the fact that diesel technology, such as common rail or pump-nozzle systems, already sets high standards for pressure loads and operating temperatures. Here, Degussa‘s innovative special polyamide 12 effectively solves the problem. Specifically designed for B100 biodiesel-compatible engines, this compound significantly improves robustness and resistance to aging of automotive fuel systems.

http://www.degussa4biodiesel.com/ind...d=_8_22&lng=en

harkgar

MB used to dictate that no synthetic oils were to be used in its cars.

I think in a litigious country like the USA its a safe way to avoid unnecessary warranty work.

With the latest Bluetec you have to stick to MB specs (diesel and engine oil)to avoid damage to the emission system.

Older diesels are definitely more resilient in maintenance and choice of fuel.

Alan Smithee

My service advisor said to stop using B5. MB may allow it and warranty any damage, but he said he's had a CDI in pieces in the shop for almost a month, and the owner had to provide a paper trail showing he wasn't using more than 5% biodiesel. Not something I want to deal with to save 24 gallons of petroleum-based diesel per year (let alone have a problem manifest itself far from a competent dealership).

harkgar

It makes no sense to be penny wise and pound foolish.

No one will fill their late model MB gasoline cars with homemade fuel so why do it to diesel ones?

240D 3.0T

Thats a good point. I have yet to hear of a home ethanol mill.