c250d

Hi all weve just had the bluemotion VWs launched here with a polo pulling 72 to the gallon, im surprised the MBZ is doing less to the gallon when the newer VW engines are pulloing more or is the VW engine dirtier than the mbz in some way?

DerekACS

Before you write any more ill-informed comments about the E320 Bluetec, perhaps you should check your facts.

1. There are NO Bluetec models in North America with the adBlue component. This will not be added until MY2009 for the SUVs and in MY2010 for the E Class.

2. The E320 Bluetecs that participated in the Paris- Beijing trek (not surprising that you got it backwards) were NOT equipped with adBlue.

3. The only difference between the current 320CDI engine (as in the SUVs) and the E320 Bluetec is in the exhaust system. The Bluetec's cleaner exhaust system results in a loss of 5 hp and a gain of 2 lb.ft of torque.
(I realize that in your opinion this might be too great a sacrifice for a cleaner environment).

4. As far as service life is concerned for the E320 Bluetec, I guess you were unimpressed with the full throttle (average speed 139mph)100,000 mile endurance tests successively completed by three Bluetecs in Laredo, Texas in April 2005. NO other automotive diesel engine has ever been subjected to such a test and completed it without any mechanical/electrical problems whatsoever.
Maybe you should give this a try with your iron I6 !

harkgar

In the USA California dictates to the Feds and overide them with legal-political moves so it is a case of the tail wagging the dog. Californians (San Franciscans mainly) hate diesels and love battery cars.

You are right. Pollution has nothing to do with diesel legislations and everything to do with perception. How do you get rid of a Toyota *****-us when it runs out of battery and generation 8 comes out next year?

You trade the battery car in for a used good pre-2006 diesel and drive it to the ground all the time blowing out clouds of black smoke.

harkgar

For your information MB did what you described in Laredo in 2005 or thereabout, before the introduction of the E320 CDi engine with very similar results. I am not an engineer but know that an iron block is superior in durability than alloy.

All the nonsense about newer diesel engines has nothing to do with pollution (only 3% of cars are diesel in the USA) but everything to do with lobbying and anti-car freaks.

Wolfgang

Here is the thread posted when the V6 diesels achieved the full throttle FIA world record in Laredo, Texas.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/106640-mercedes-benz-diesel-record-attempt.html

240D 3.0T

Here is something better: VIDEO from MB's website.

DerekACS

Wolfgang, Thanks for posting the link.
This link confirmes that the test took place in April 2005 (not 2006 as I originally stated above) and that the engines were the current 3.0L V6 CDI.
I think that Harkgar's confusion stems from the fact that the original MB Press Release did not specifically mention "V6". Perhaps MB did not want to take away from the I6 engine that was then being supplied to the US market.

erh7771

NOPE!

niunio

I have 2005 E320 CDI equipped with nav, dynamic seats, wood steering. Sticker was just above $60k; blk/blk, 22kmi., Wisconsin. No kids, pets and will sell for $15k off the sticker.

sheikhg

Hi niuniu!

I am very close to you -- here in Pewaukee! I drive an '05 Tectite Gray with Ash Interior W211 CDI....

...question for you: locally here, who do you go to for repair/service? I recently went to Black Forest LLC but found them to be average, at best...

Untertürkheim

[QUOTE=harkgar;2396625]For your information MB did what you described in Laredo in 2005 or thereabout, before the introduction of the E320 CDi engine with very similar results. I am not an engineer but know that an iron block is superior in durability than alloy. QUOTE]


This is not always true, I would actually expect it to be incorrect more often than not for three reasons.

1. Having an engine with a head and block of different materials (Iron and Aluminum) versus single alloy construction can lead to much shorter head gasket life and higher liklihood of failure. Mating two alloys with different specific heats will direct all the stress of the different expansion rates to the head gasket wheras an engine with a uniform alloy construction will not be subjected to the same shortcomings.

2. The durability of the cylinders will be determined by the cylinder walls / linings.

3. A multi-alloy engine will be less robust in regards to the cooling system since it will be more likely to induct electrolysis and breakdown of the coolant. The fewer different alloys involved in the cooling system and engines reduce this factor.

Wolfgang

Tenneco was just awarded the first urea SCR contract by a commercial vehicle manufacturer in China:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2007,+05:35+PM

PS. Tenneco supplies the integrated Bluetec SCR muffler for Mercedes commercial vehicles in Europe since about 2005, with about 100,000 on the road now.

rich644

240D
You seem to know your subject well.

I am looking at leasing an '07 E320, and am concerned with the reduction in horsepower and fuel economy as well as the requirment for special oil.

Would there be any practical (or semi-practical) method to bypass the new emissions control gear so that I could acheive at least 2006 levels of performance? Or would this be a massive undetaking and requiring a re-progamming of the ecu?

TIA,

richard

Untertürkheim

The 2007 bluetec with the new engine produces more horsepower and torque than the old I6 CDI engine from 2006 and earlier. In addition, it has a new 7g-tronic transmission. It should outperform the older models in every way. In addition, bypassing the emissions control equipment will immediately void your warranty, and probably cripple the car as it will give error codes like a christmas tree.

Messerchmidt

get the 07 or 08

drive it as is for now. no adblue BS yet. once all that bluetec crap starts to break in 6 or 7 years if you keep it that long, then gut it, put a turbo back staight pipe, reflash the computer, and your good....

harkgar

I am very happy with my E320 CDi and care deeply about my environment - the well maintained black top asphalt on the highway that allows 120 mph cruising, black smoke belching 16 wheel diesel trucks and a society that cherishes high horsepower (defined as over 400 bhp) performance cars.

harkgar

Why not get a 2005 or 2006 and do exactly what you described after 6 or 7 years?

pinebaron

I recently installed the new version KD-BOX for the 07 Bluetec; the car was fast before but now is truely a rocket ship; so much more power and actually improved the mpg by almost 2mpg;I have a lead foot since I drive 150+ miles daily.

Untertürkheim

How many miles are on your car now?

jhcicco

What does this do to the the warranty?

harkgar

MB USA will tell the gentleman with the KD "your engine warranty is toast" and "do not come back"!

MB Fanatic

Wow a whole 10% more for 15ppm Diesel, like thats gonna put a dent in anybodys wallet. Lets get serious, the Bluetec's are much better cars than their previous counterparts and more powerful. To the ****heads that say Bluetech sucks, you can kiss my *** when you see me pass your *** by in my E320 Bluetec while burning less fuel, and getting better gas mileage.

I am constantly amazed at the ignorance some of the members on this board have.

lkchris

Second that opinion. Have both.

pinebaron

LOL

harkgar

I was stating a fact rather than saying the new V-6 diesel engine is not as good as the straight in-line 6 CDi, discontinued with the introduction of the Bluetec.

What I was saying is that the Bluetec system is more complicated and would continue to get worse with the AdBlue next year. With "worse" I meant losing the simplicity of the diesel engine design without reference to tree hugging madness. Diesels were bought to do high mileages with low upkeep costs. Up to 2006 this was the case. With the 2007+ "clean" diesels prepare for big numbers for the check engine lights and filters. A MB service manager told me that Mercedes as old as 1999 have 200 emission reasons for triggering check engine lights. Do you want your diesel CEL to come on like a Christmas tree and risk the engine going on fire just because it is blowing a little soot? Are you prepared to spend thousands so Al Goore can have an excuse to run for a second "piece" price?

Old American muscle cars and older MB diesels are symbols of freedom from big government. If they have their ways their tree hugging feinds will stop you from wood burning stoves, they will outlaw lawn mowers. The Marxist mayor of Toronto, David Miller (a Harvard Marxist guy, no less) is already doing that in Toronto. You do not know how lucky you are down south with George W Bush. Take a deep breath, big brother.

The common rail system alone will give us much more power and economy. Imagine the V-6 engine created for the Bluetec diesel system without all the 4or more particulate filters and cats. It will be a good package.