harkgar

My apologies. I thought you were serious. Now I agree with you 100%.

One of the worst offenders is the UK. They encouraged conversion to diesel years back to save fuel, at a time when UK had the lowest petroleum products in the EEC (EU now) and diesel cheaper than gasoline. As soon as the Britons had carried out the government guidance diesel became more expensive than petrol and UK petroleum products is one of the highest in the EU.

Americans watch out for government "green" directives! They want to pick your pockets!

harkgar

I did not know that. Are you a resident of Germany?

UK most definitely has it and all new cars advertisements carry an emission numerical number with it.

Diesel Benz

I don't know how carbon tax was defined here but the yearly fee for driving and maintaining a car is pretty much dependent on the emissions, including CO2 emissions, isn't it?

UK and France at least have CO2 based tax or something similar, although not really a huge tax (the French one was even smaller).

Wolfgang

The V8s have a slightly larger 75 degree V angle.

Some OM629 V8 diesel specs

Cylinder arrangement V8
Cylinder angle 75°
Valves per cylinder 4
Displacement 3996 cc
Bore/stroke 86/86 mm
Distance between cylinders 97 mm
Compression ratio 17.0 : 1
Output 231 kW/314 hp at 3600 rpm
Max. torque 730 Nm at 2200 rpm
Production Mercedes-Benz Berlin Marienfelde

Untertürkheim

[QUOTE=harkgar;2575268]I did not know that. Are you a resident of Germany?
QUOTE]

I spend quite a lot of time there, although I am not officially a resident.

Untertürkheim

The EU emissions classifications started at EU I, and are currently at EU IV. Several factors are included in the classification, but not CO2 (although HC and CO are). Registration is based on the car's actual emissions classification, not the original classification.

This system is far better than the Ca system, where the registration is based on the car's original specification. At least in the EU system people are actually rewarded for caring for their car, even though in Germany most people are strict about service since neglecting your car is the #1 social faux-pas.

Alan Smithee

"Much better cars"? How do you figure? Yes, on paper the V6 is more powerful, and inherently a more efficient motor by being smaller in displacement. But I have yet to see an unbiased real-world test comparison between the two that demonstrates the V6 is any lighter, quicker, or more fuel efficient. Car and Driver tested each in their respective years of introduction, and the results were almost identical.

I certainly won't say the Bluetec cars suck...they're the same, but different. The drivetrain was changed to simply save MB money. The Bluetecs may pollute less, but they are also more complex. That's the only trade-off.

harkgar

Precisely. If the two engines are more or less the same in most parameters like preformance and economy then the only major consideration is cost of repairs in the long run. Which would you choose if the CDI is still available?

Consider:

1) iron block or alloy block.
2) cylinder liners or no cylinder liners.
3) do you love the trees enough to fork out 4 filters (cats, pre-cats, soot filters or whatever junk they call them now) at thousands of dollars when your Bluetec is worth less than these items?
4) or do you want to rock and roll with a freedom diesel?

I rest my case.

harkgar

I have forgotten about those counter-balancer shafts that all V-6 engines need to make them shake-free.

Also the fueling requirements for the CDI is less stringent than the Bluetec.

There is only 1 reason to buy a Bluetec now:

They are better than the AdBlue models coming next year with **** injection.

240D 3.0T

Both the I6 and V6 use liners.

Untertürkheim

I find it amusing how some people assume the V6 diesel was designed simply to save money. Nobody has considered that switching to this layout was necessary to fit a 6 cyl diesel into the C-class?

And I would prefer an alloy block myself, having a engine block and head of the same material should increase the longevity vs. different materials for block and head.

Lastly, why does nobody see that the previous I6 was "modular" itself?

220CDI I4
270CDI I5
320CDI I6

These engines had much more in common than the current 220CDI does with the 300/320CDI

Alan Smithee

That's what I meant by saving MB money...same motor can be used through the line-up. Same with the 7-speed transmission...there's no need for so many gears in such a torquey car with such a wide, flat power band...but it is used throughout the line-up so makes financial sense for MB to use it in the diesels as well.

lkchris

V-engines are much safer in frontal collisions as well.

Mercedes has choice: inline engines in 4, 5, and 6 cyl versions or V-engines in V6 and V8. BOTH are money saving propositions, although it's pretty hard to overcome cost of one vs two cylinderheads (see VW VR6).

Untertürkheim

So, developing a superior transmission (that is not, by the way, used in the entire lineup, or even close) or a superior engine that can now offer a higher level of power not before available in another chassis, is percieved as negative? I am very confused.

By the way, it may interest a lot of people to know that Mercedes-Benz cars have the lowest average withheld profits, they invest (by far) the largest percentage of profits into R&D. Porsche and Lexus are the lowest.

harkgar

I understand that the alloy V-6 with iron liners.

Why is it necessary for an iron block engine?

harkgar

Why are V-engines safer than straight ones? An inline 6 is as long as a V-12.

tbenz

this was like going to diesel 101 training, i think i have a headache

Alan Smithee

Jeezus you people are argumentative. Now I remember why I haven't come by here in a while. Re-read my post...nowhere did I say the V6 with 7-speed was in any way negative. I replied to another poster inquiring how he figured the V6 with 7-speed was "much better" than the I6 with 5-speed...it isn't lighter, quicker, more reliable, or more fuel efficient. The V6 looks about the same, drives about the same, and costs about the same to buy and run. Why is that so hard for people to admit?

And the 7-speed is used in every body style MB certifies for sale in the US except the SLR, so yes, that's pretty close, and I don't see how it would be more cost efficient to leave a 5-speed in the US-spec W211 diesel. I am aware that the V12s still use a 5-speed.

240D 3.0T

For rebuilding.

lkchris

Ok, a V6 or a V8 is safer than an I6.

dave2001auto

Wolfgang,
Does the sprinter have the same dpf as the dpf used on the 2007-09 e320 bluetec and the 2011 e350 bluetec? They require 229.51 oil that is about 20% lower in the SAP than DELO. DELO seems to have better TBN and may even last longer than the "synthetic" M1 0W-40.