240D 3.0T

Thats illegal and can cost you some hefty fines if the wrong people catch you.

People like you are breaking the law, don't pay your due taxes, don't contribute to the maintenance of our roads, pollute the air and destroy good cars in the process.

harvid

Where in the US is it specifically illegal? From my reading, this wasn't quite so clear cut, though I know that there are several jurisdictions in Europe where it is taxed. From what I've read, some states have even exempted the fuel from taxation. That is the case here in Canada for biodiesel.

240D 3.0T

It may be different for Canada, but most people on these forums are in the USA.

Taxation is not the issue, its emissions, lack of certification as a fuel and lack of fuel system modification/conversion certification.
http://www.calepa.ca.gov/Legislation/1997/sb315.htm
http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/...s-illegal.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/S60823...tml?refresh=on

WVO is not BioDiesel.

Uncle Paka

240D,

Your links are our of date. CA law has changed a little since 1997. You might want to refer to the Energy Policy Act of 2005. Apparently you also missed The Golden Fuels Systems eBay auction of their truck and it's polymerized engine? Also, 40CFR is in regards to fleets which contain passenger and light duty vehicles, not individuals. Taxation is completely a valid issue along with safety and emissions.

The Clean Air Act only has language for industrial abuses, not individual. And yet in all its wisdom, the E.P.A. allows unregulated burning of unregulated oils for furnace heating in small industry - so is pollution from passenger autos really a big issue? Not imho if you consider that ordering a single hamburger from a fast food joint invokes more pollution and aggregate toxicity than driving a Hummer for a year.

As for taxation, yes, the I.R.S. will and has fined individuals for fueling with non-taxed fuels. Same as they enforce laws against using red off-road, or "tractor" fuels in on-road vehicles. That many state offer tax rebates and credits for alt. fuelers is a subtlety apparently lost on you. Just 'cause Goatman is picking on you is no reason to get snarky. Trolls need only be ignored, not fed.

As for ASTM regulation, well, poorly handled ASTM diesel #2 can destroy your engine just as easily as unregulated neat biodiesel will dissolve all the seals and rubbers in your 29 year old taxi cab.

As for the price of diesel fuel, ULSD will never fall back in to the old price structures in relationship to gasoline grades. ULSD refining is a super-critical process and simply costs more to produce. This cost will always be reflected in the market prices, retail or wholesale. Gasoline blends in the U.S. now all contain Ethanol which not only gives you less BTU so you'll buy more to get the same distance, it's price is only remaining as "low" as it is because of the volume of sales and the subsidizing accorded the 1992 Energy Policy Act, From http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/epact/:

"The Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPAct) was passed by Congress to reduce our nation's dependence on imported petroleum by requiring certain fleets to acquire alternative fuel vehicles, which are capable of operating on nonpetroleum fuels."

Just as WVO is not biodiesel, most WVO is not even vegetable oil and not all biodiesel is ASTM biodiesel. ASTM biodiesel also puts money in the pocket of the biolipid transesterification patent holder: Colgate. Furthermore, I have yet to hear of one single auto manufacturer approving concentrations of more than 20% ASTM biodiesel, or B20. Since you own a diesel and this thread is about diesel price structures, throw this in to the mix: synthetic diesel, often sold as "premium diesel" by Shell in Europe will eventually provide a true "alternative" to conventional seasonal blends of ULSD #2.

Emerging Diesel Fuel:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/fuel...l_what_is.html

"What is Fischer-Tropsch diesel?

Fischer-Tropsch (F-T) diesel is synthetic diesel fuel produced by converting gaseous hydrocarbons, such as natural gas and gasified coal or biomass, into liquid fuel.

Fischer-Tropsch Diesel as an Alternative Fuel

Fischer-Tropsch diesel can be substituted directly for conventional (petroleum-derived) diesel to fuel diesel-powered vehicles, without modification to the vehicle engine or fueling infrastructure.

To enhance energy independence in the face of apartheid-related embargoes, South Africa satisfied most of its diesel demand with natural gas- and coal-derived F-T diesel for decades and is still using the fuel in significant quantities. More recently, global concerns about energy supplies and costs and the environment have created interest in F-T fuels elsewhere. For example, Shell markets F-T diesel as a premium diesel blend in Europe and Thailand. In the United States, F-T diesel has been used in demonstration projects."

Personally, considering the coal reserves in this country, I think the smart money is on synthetic diesel for an interim liquid fuel until we acheive solar and hydrogen independance and international ecological accountability.

Same group of people gave this country our Department of Energy its 1992 Energy Policy Act (EPAct):
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/epact/

"The U.S. Department of Energy is currently reviewing petitions to decide on a rulemaking for Fischer-Tropsch diesel (FTD). The FTD petitions, as well as analyses, reports, notices, and other information, are available in DOE's Docket for Rulemaking on Fischer-Tropsch Diesel Fuels.

For more information on the Alternative Fuel Designation Authority, e-mail fuel_petitions@afdc.nrel.gov."

From the DOE's docket:

"Docket for Rulemaking on Fischer-Tropsch Diesel Fuels (EE-RM-02-200)

Three companies have petitioned DOE to have their fuels, which are all diesel fuels produced from natural gas, designated as alternative fuels under the Energy Policy Act (EPAct): PetroSA, Rentech, Inc., and Syntroleum Corp.

The above docket for rulemaking contains numerous intersting links to research .pdf's.

Best,

240D 3.0T

Uncle, your information is inaccurate.

It does not matter what CA passes, the EPA is federal.

Taxation is not the ONLY issue/hurdle to legalizing waste veggie junk as a fuel.

Yes, by far.
Furnace heating is self-regulating. If furnace makers build an inefficient and polluting burner they won't have any customers to sell to plus they would have plies of lawsuits from sick/dead customers.
Car owners don't really care about emissions because it all goes out the tailpipe where they never interact with it.

That is false and grossly exaggerated information.

Not at all, I don't give a rats behind about taxation unless they are intentionally trying to evade it, as greastards do. The pollution emissions and destruction of good cars is also a concern. If you think a hamburger is bad, look up what it takes to make a new car (Especially hybrids).

Then why should I bother replying to your false information?

Nobody is talking about biodiesel, thats a completely legal and good alternative fuel. Whats being discussed is the use of waste fryer junk and raw vegetable oil.

WVO fundamentally can't be standardized or regulated becasue it can be based off many different oils, is pre-contaminated with a huge variety of chemicals, can be altered from normal use (how long/heavily it was used and at what temperature) and is done predominantly under the radar.

That is false information. Gasoline does not have to contain ethanol. In fact most stations in Oklahoma, for example, advertise the fact they sell ethanol-free gas, its cheaper price and higher resulting fuel economy.

Ethanol does not work in EFI engines for reducing emissions, the computer automatically injects more fuel to compensate for the lean burn. Carburetion is the only application its actually effective. Its also heavily subsidized becasue it costs more to produce than it sells for and it inflates the cost of food around the world. If an alternative/supplimentary fuel is to work sucessfully it can't be made from products that are a primary consumer item.

So? Thats how the patent system works. Colgate developed it so they deserve to be compensated for their work.

Again, so? Try finding a public pump (one you can pay and pump directly from without assistance) that sells higher than B20. The majority of B100 sales is through bulk and individual containers.

"Synthetic diesel" is not available in the USA at pumps. Their "alternative" is not really viable, its just diverting existing coal and natural gas away from other uses.Thats a pipe dream. Hydrogen is one of, if not the, least viable fuel sources on the planet. It takes more energy to separate hydrogen from its bonds than the energy it contains within. Its also a VERY weak fuel; it has to be stored at extreme pressures and/or extreme low temperatures to get an acceptable driving range. It takes 6,000 cubic feet of uncompressed Hydrogen to have the same energy as 13 gallons of Diesel. Compressing that to 10,000psi would reqire 2,000lbs of steel tank(s) and occupy nearly 15 cubic feet of space (your entire trunk). Liquify that with nitrogen cooling and the tank size goes down but that is easily made up for by tank insulation and the -200*F cooling system (Plus it vents that hydrogen as it gets warm).

Solar has decades of development before it can become an automotive alternative. Its very expensive, it has a low surface area:current production ratio, its dependent on sun exposure and its brittle.

"Ecological accountability" is not possible. We can't police the world, the USA houses only 6% of the population and a lot of the world's sovereign countries do not agree with most of our policies. Until we invade and attempt to conquer them, as we have begun doing a few years ago, they are free to pollute as much as they choose.

Goatman

LMAO!!!!

Goatman

$1.89 for regular, $2.25 for diesel. The ship is slowly righting itself...


WVO illegal....

Uncle Paka

240 3.0T,

I am sure your feelings lead you to believe that.


Scroll back upwards - you were the one who posted the out of date legislation URL from the State of California. Also, FWIW, you might want to review the history of States rights. CA has some interesting legislation which is quite contrary to Federal policy and law. It does, in fact, matter very much what the State legislature does. Considering your attitude towards taxation, you seem rather disenfranchised from the political process afforded you in this country. Give it a try. Much more rewarding than ad hoc ad hominems.


I can only hope that you are currently using one of your "self regulating" furnace heaters in your own home as we speak... Not sure where the exhaust from your home heater goes, but most HVAC involves routing the emissions differently than the heated air you breathe. If you think car owners don't interact with their emissions, I can only guess that you are posting from an alternate universe. Ever visit L.A. at sunset?


Not according to the United Nations Food And Agriculture Organization. Also, I am quite well aware of how bad it is to produce hybrid batteries. Litihium ore mining is not pretty. I think you missed my point: personal automotive emissions are nothing in the face of industry, especially transnational technocracy. Colgate wasn't inventing a better toothpaste when they came up with biolipid transesterification. As for policing the world, well... what's the saying, "where the military goes, the private sector follows."

...

At least the other troll is posting diesel price info.

I agree with lkchris, ultimately, the economic analysis of these two commodities is a little useless.

Best,
Uncle Paka

Goatman

Damn, another slam to the king....




Diesel prices are unchanged as of this week..

philfna

2.21 for Super+ and 2.09 for diesel here :-)

Fourdiesel

$1.37 yesterday for off-road (non taxed diesel)
$1.93 today for ULSD at the 'cheapest' station in town
$2.05 for RUG - same station

For what its worth - It has just been announced that the Valero refinery (one of the largest on the Gulf Coast) is now in the process of converting their equipment to produce ALL ULSD from now on. The article was not clear if ANY ULSD had been produced there in the past. The Valero refinery, when the mods are complete should be able to make 200,000 barrels per day ULSD! THATS why the price of diesel is now lower than gas - the supply is about to take a big jump.

Goatman

$1.99 for regular, diesel still holding at $2.25.

Mr.Billyd

Last time I bought in Phoenix was 1.95 for diesel and Regular was 2.05. Got to love buying it for less that regular!!!!!!!!!

loneranger47

It's a game called raping the trucking industry.

loneranger47

Know you know the diference between International Socialists (Coms). National Socialists (****'s) (same bunch, different leaders) and Americans. The former have made so many laws everyone is a criminal. This is done so they can go after who they want, when they want. The few Americans left in Amerika say, "Screw them all, they have no right to regulate everything." "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better then the animating contest of freedom, then go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. ", Samuel Adams. Resistance to tyranny is service to God.

Goatman

Don't sweat it, you're typing to a jackass.

240D 3.0T

You know, you have the right as an American to leave and pick whatever country has laws you agree with, you can fight to change the laws or you can bend over and take it up the rear like the rest of us peons.

Don't worry, we all know you're a useless troll nobody loves.

Goatman

You do. In fact, some say you're my beeeeaaaaatch... And I can't disagree....