Nubiru

Very 1st Post here! I have been reading for some time and am hoping for some advice. Here's the situation, back in July when fuel shot up and I along with everyone else freaked on the price, I decided to check out diesel cars again. I owned a German made 1984 VW Jetta TD that did no wrong. I looked about and decided on either a 05 or 06 CDI due to price but the Bluetec held my eye. So I'm closer to pulling the trigger now and a couple of local dealers have 5 to 6 '07 E320 Bluetecs with under 10Kmi for $29.9k to $35.5k. Have I missed anything beyond a depression barreling down on us? Are there any inherent problems...like the surging transmission, ULSD availability, Urea cartridges? What kind of warranty typically is provided with a MB certified used car. Is there some particular option or package I should be aware of? I really like the way this car looks and the technology is just awesome. What do you think they'll give me for my Explorer just kidding

Looking forward to reading your input.

Nubiru

240D 3.0T

Bluetecs are emissions choked and the engine is designed to be throwaway (not rebuildable).

ULSD is sold at every pump in the united states, finding it is as simple as finding a station that sells diesel.

Bluetecs do not use urea. 2010+ models will under the AdBlue name.

The 7-speeds have had known shifting problems. Software updates have helped but many still complain.

The best model to look for is an 05-06 E320 CDI. Its not choked by the bluetec crap and it was the last great Diesel Mercedes designed.

Boulder GT3

I think the best MB sedan diesel you can buy is a 2007 E320 Bluetec. Smoother and a little quieter than the CDI, no urea tank and the 7 speed is a very nice transmission.

I've got a CDI and I'm happy with it. Love the 600 miles on a tank around town. Also, the gap has closed on diesel fuel. It was around +$.60 vs. premium about 6 weeks ago and now it is about $.20 more in Florida.

philfna

I don't think the Bluetec is a "throwaway" engine, but the CDI is a great engine as well. I'd get an 06' CDI or and 07'Bluetec...

240D 3.0T

Cast in cylinder liners, valve covers with integral cam bearing caps, piston cooling jets that require replacing the whole cylinder block if damaged in any way.... the list goes on for that engine.

Nubiru

Thanks for the comments. I m leaning toward the Bluetec.

TMAllison

The jury's still out concerning the V6 engines. Too new and MANY drawbacks as 240 pointed out.

I'm looking at the W211 06 CDI's personally and ahve decided i'll live with its weak SBC brakes vs the unproven V6 engine design.

Danno4x4

Nope... Not every station has ULSD... I have seen it with my own eyes. Especially at Flying J truck stops. ULSD is not going to be available at EVERY station in the until 2010. California however has mandated that every station sell ULSD as of 2007, so if you are in California, you don't even have to look at the pump.

I recommend that any diesel owner with a particulate filter ALWAYS look for the sticker confirming that it is ULSD until 2010... The consequences are too expensive otherwise.

Nope... The urea was added in 2009... ML, GL and R 320 2009 models have urea.

Untertürkheim

Correct, but the W211 E Bluetec has not, nor will have it.

The Bluetec is a great car and great engine. The 7 speed transmission is a much better match to the car than the old 5 speed.

The best advice I can offer is to insist on a car with P2 and Leather, do not let the dealer tell you that plastic MB-tex is close, because it is not. It feels horrible to the touch, and gets worse in hot or cold. Also, the Xenon dynamic lights with P2 are a must have, along with the keyless go in P2. The folding rear seat is a nice extra.

240D 3.0T

Your eyes have deceived you. 80% of refinery production is ULSD and all of it goes to on-highway applications and other demands. The remaining 20% is for off-highway (marine, rail, genset, construction, etc). THEY are the ones that will be going ULSD in 2010.

Every single on-highway pump in the USA is pumping ULSD. The pumps with LSD stickers are only those that have not been cleaned and certified for use with ULSD. They are NOT pumping different fuel, the stations are simply being too cheap and procrastinating in getting them certified.

Only Kalifornia-spec models have it. I looked at an 09 ML320 this weekend and it was just choked with normal Bluetec.

Models with AdBlue will have this in place of the spare tire.

harkgar

Xenon lights are not very reliable and I had to replace 2 in my sold E55 at a cost of nearly CD$200.00 each after labor and taxes. The bulb alone costs well over $120.00. I would not recommend it. Keyless go is a fancy fad. A diesel is a workhorse first and foremost. If you like the top shelf stuff go for an AMG.

harkgar

240: Do you know if my 2006 can burn LSD as well as ULSD? I think it can burn both as ULSD was not available in 2006.

harkgar

Do you know the output of your car with all the modifications?

Untertürkheim

They may cost more, but they tend to last much longer and perform much better, and greatly enhance safety, which I am willing to pay a premium for. Also, I see no reason why efficiency and luxury should be mutually exclusive. I would think luxury features would be required by high milage diesel drivers rather than AMG stoplight racers.

240D 3.0T

Only 2007+ models require ULSD.

107HP and 195lb/ft of torque at the wheels was my last dyno. Since then I removed the fuel rack limiter which will put me close to 130hp and 250lb/ft at the wheels.

SPLe320

I have a 2007 e320 Bluetec with P1. It is my first MB and my first diesel. Overall, I love it. Great torque, very comfortable. I had the software update on the 7-speed and it shifts great. I have no idea if the Bluetec motor is better or worse than the CDI motor. This year is the third year of the installations and I have not heard of any complaints about the motor.

I think that these cars are a real bargain right now. I would not hesitate to buy an '07 Bluetec with a CPO warranty. I believe that the price is a reflection of the economy and not a reflection of the quality and reliability of these cars.

harkgar

It is good to know that my CDi is the last of the freedom diesels. Maybe using heating oil when the car is older? The 2007 and newer diesels bug me for they signal the ending of freedom - just like the 1970s when big government brought in horsepower robbing engine choking catalytic converters. The CDi is the equivalent of the large big block Hemi without emission control and electronic nannies that can stop you from starting your engine when the urea is low!

Diesels use to be purchased for economy, ease of maintenance and reliability. It is not so true now. Imagine a piezzo injected, a 400 bhp 3.5 liter straight six turbo AMG diesel without all the emission equipment returning 40 mpg!

harkgar

Bluetecs are good diesels if you want to keep them for around 5 years. Look at 240's diesel. It is still running after 20+ years without the need for a new engine. The present newer diesels are a complicated stop gap design to get the cars to market in all 50 States. You will not find people lining up to fill their urea tanks in North America (or the rest of the world for that matter).

Boulder GT3

I'd rather listen to Enya for the rest of my life than be stuck in a smelly, noisy, slow 240D for 300K.

You may view it as the end of freedom but the reality is that todays cars are more efficient, faster and safer than ever before.

SPLe320

That seems a bit unfair and inaccurate in that Bluetecs have not even been around for 5 years? How can you make any reasonable speculation on durability?

The first run of Bluetecs do not use urea. For those that do need the AdBlue, why is that such a problem? I never understood the argument that consumers will resist adding a fluid to a car. People do it all the time when adding gasoline, diesel, oil changes, automatic transmission fluid, etc. What really is the big deal about adding urea once every several thousand miles?

I believe that the urea tank will be a temporary issue anyway. I think that VW and Honda have developed an engine that does not need it and will hit the 50-State compliance.

Finally, I also agree that the Bluetec is powerful, quiet, efficient, and does not smoke. It seems to be a terrific engine.

Rob CL

Hello. Just wanted to chime in on the CDI debate. While I only have 34k on mine at present I can attest to the potency, economy and (thus-far) reliability of the engine.

My version does not meet "BlueTec" nor "AdBlue" certification and as such is basically a straight OM642 diesel.

I have noticed quite a bit of blow-by pooling in the turbo intake housing and have since installed a catch can. I can't see why this engine, if properly maintaned (both ongoing and preventative) would be considered inferior to any degree.

Nubiru, good luck with your purchase.

harkgar

I agree that the new V-6 is a good engine. I just do not like the AdBlue engineering. It is unsound because the US government made MB install an electronic nanny to disable the car.

In gasoline cars similar laws are already in place. When emissions problems arise a check engine light comes on, not an "emission problem" light as most motorists will ignore it. There are over 200 CELs in MB cars related to emission checks so the "Cleaner" the car the more problems you will have.

Untertürkheim

The E class does not use AdBlue, period. The Bluetec model is simply a more modern engine and transmission.

240D 3.0T

Not quite. The original engine died at 195k miles but the engine from my wagon that replaced it has over 300k miles.

2010 models will. By August new models will have the tanks.

Nubiru

Thanks Rob CL I am running into a real dilemma looking for a this e320. I have many years working on electrical systems of cars and relate totally to 240D 3.0T's points on future repairs and modifications...but here's the rub I can buy a bluetec with under 10K from a MB dealer 12 mi away for just under 30K mint with a warranty. I can't find a cream puff 05 or 06 anywhere close in the whole country. The CDIs are in the mid to high 30ks and these folks aren't moving on price as they are in for $$$. I am still searching and will keep this post informed. Thanks,

Nubiru

PS any leads on a car ? https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif