Brunhilde

That bad? Gee, I thought Saab was the only manufacturer foolish enough to design like that, and they got a clue in, what, the late 90s?

Have horrid memories of Saabs requiring a block and tackle to remove the whole engine to get at stuff that wears out routinely. Spark plugs and whatnot, you couldn't change a worn-out belt in an old Saab without rebuilding half the car. They realized it was killing their rep, though--expensive lesson.

lkchris

This describes all current engines made for cars. But, add in light weight and fuel economy, too.

None of us need nor can afford an engine designed to last 500K miles in a commercial vehicle or 20 years in a cruise ship. None of us needs a "rebuildable" engine as is assumed by industrial criteria.

None of us wants to carry around that weight, paying the performance penalties either.

1970s to mid 1980s Mercedes may have been produced closer to this "ideal," but those ideals are ancient history and now irrelevant.

Also pretty true is the notion that Mercedes really aren't and never have been "last forever" cars. The large majority of 1980s-1990s Mercedes still on the road in the USA are basically clunkers, not being maintained hardly at all and mostly seriously deteriorated. They are gross polluters and not particularly fuel efficient by today's standards and the sooner they're gone the better for everyone.

gaiex

I just want to say that you guys are comparing a old engine with old technology with a complete different thing.

The I6 is more rpm friend, so it have a huge turbo for high end power, while the V6 is all about quick acceleration, little turbo and more gears (7).

I have the V6 and know very well the I6 and what they are capable of, but the V6 will be allways better.

About the iron vs aluminium engines, future is aluminium and many diesel engines here in Europe are made of aluminium, the technology had good improvement in last 8 years.
The V6 320cdi is around Europe for 8 years! all problems are sorted out, the best MB diesel engine for the last 12-15years.
In the other side, the 7G-tronic software is not very well tuned for diesel engines!

You guys have to drive the new 350CDI with 265hp, that's a very good engine, not as fast as the 35d from bmw but its from MB, and MB know how to do diesel engines

PS: Get the V6, just get ride of the DPF and bluetecs stuffs, they only decrease the fuel economy.

240D 3.0T

You can thank Chrysler for Mercedes' quality downfall. The V6 CDI was born from that union.

Thats the difference between people that buy a car as an appliance rather than those of us that buy it as a utility or way of life.

Speak for yourself. I'm happy to get 25mpg instead of 35mpg since my engines will last 35+ years instead of 15.

By contrast, how many 94-99 Mercedes do you still see on the road?

My ***. A 2011 Honda Civic gets 25 City / 36 Hwy, so does both of my cars. Now compare; 1982 Honda Civic 41/55.
What happened to your "today's standards" argument? *Poof* right out the window.

240D 3.0T

"Little" is an understatement. That GTA2056V is very undersized even for stock power on my 125hp engine! How it does'nt explode flowing enough air for 210hp is anybody's guess.

Incorrect. Its only been in use for 6 years.

That is false information.

Also incorrect, the transmission itself is a bad design.

gaiex

7g-tronic just works, not in the best way, but way better than the gear box's of the competition, mainly bmw and Audi auto 6 speed, with less problems.
The V6 went out in mid 2003 in the W221 S320cdi...
If the v6 is having problems, maybe in America, because in Europe is one of the best diesel engines out there.
About the turbo, the GT2260v it only can do max 260hp, the GTB2260vk can do 280, when the GT2359 can do +300!

So witch MB diesel engine was better than this V6 in the last 12-15years?

240D 3.0T

FYI, the V6 has a GT2056V.

All but the 3.5L 603.

gaiex

I was thinking on the 2260 for my car Yes its a 2056, I wanted to mention above all 2056 variants instead of 2260

klister

This is an interesting discussion and I wonder if you can put it in perspective for me. I can understand that the newer engine designs, emission requirements, and ULSD can make the newer V6 diesel less durable, rebuildable, and maintenance free than the older I6 design.

However, does this make them less durable and maintenance free than the current and upcoming petrol engines?

ImInPA

German assembly line worker earn more than their us counterparts, receive nearly 3 time the paid vacation each year, and have full medical coverage. Often times, the inefficiency and waste of corporate america is blamed on the US worker, but the facts truly do not support this argument.

ImInPA

From a practical perspective, I think it is rare the a MB customer, who purchases their vehicles new, has much concerns about whether or not their engine can be rebuilt at 300K miles. There are in fact Aluminum V6 diesels powering many a w212 taxis world wide that have more than 300K miles. It becomes almost academic. If you only drive the average 12K miles per year, it should be close to 20 years before you will need to start worrying about rebuilding your engine. Not too shabby. In all honesty, unless my E350 Bluetec becomes some sort of collectors item (which I doubt) I probably will not be too concerned about it 20 years from now.

jctevere

On the cylinder liners. My Mercedes OM603 diesel has an aluminum block without cylinder sleeves and is coming very close to 300,000 miles. A friend of mine has one with over 500,000 miles. Earlier cast iron diesels (The OM616 and OM617) are known to be just as robust.

Interesting bit about the valve cover. I'm actually scratching my head as to what someone would have to do in order to damage it.What have you heard?

On the turbo, that is typical of many parts on many different cars. I've yet to find a company that will sell me just one component as opposed to an entire assembly. For example, right now I am currently in need of a gear for my window motor. Not the entire motor, just the gear; i've had no luck finding anyone who will only sell me just the gear.

The new V6 diesel is interesting and i've talked to several owners and none have had any problems with them yet. I'm curious to hear more about the piston cooling jets and how they can become damaged.

240D 3.0T

That is false.

jctevere

What makes you so sure? I can't necessarily say that you are wrong and that my OM603 doesn't have cylinder sleeves, because I have never looked with my own two eyes. However, this is what I have been told by my mechanics, and to watch for any coolant leaks because of it (apparently it is even more critical if coolant starts to leak without cylinder sleeves?)

Nevertheless, it really isn't a big issue. I was hoping that you would be able to comment on my other points. (How damage occurs to the various critical components that would make the engine scrap metal). Not because I doubt you, but because I really don't know how this occurs; and would like to know because I am thinking of getting a new bluetech. Something to look out for, I tend to try and buy my vehicles and run them until it becomes a nuissance (about 200,000mi)

240D 3.0T

The fact no such thing exists.

jctevere

Well then, you sir are an idiot and have lost all credibility with me. Not only do you fail to provide any proof and say anything meaningful besides "false", or "no". But you don't ever answer the entire question to my post above when asked twice about how a piston cooling jet can get bent, or a valve cover damaged.

On the subject of the OM 603 having/not having cylinder liners... The 603.961 {300SDL and 87 300D} DO have cylinder liners. The 603.97x {350SD/SDL} DON'T have cylinder liners. And unlike you, I will provide some pictures to prove my point...





Have a nice day!

By the way, the images come straight from Mercedes-Benz, I reached out to some corporate friends through Generation-Benz... Try telling them that they are wrong.

jralstondr

true dat.....

240D 3.0T

Thats correct.

You want proof, go stick a magnet on your block. If its aluminum then it won't. Imagine that concept, checking your own facts.



Oh, hey, lookie there, an IRON CYLINDER BLOCK!

Sheep travel in herds.

Carsy

Err.......Flocks ? I know of a wether on this forum.

chsu74

This is a great thread. I just picked up an 09 GL 320 for my wife and am very interested in learning more on the evolution of Mercedes 6 cyl diesels. Its too bad that MBUSA do not offer diesel 4matic in the E class or I would consider it as a DD for the Northeast USA.

edd1e22

Bwahahahaha I6 is iron block so the entire block is the "sleeve" man. This is a classic case of "Stomping on your own dick"! =)

edd1e22

you mean "bellwether" right?

listerone

Can't comment on MBs...past or present but my experience with a BMW diesel (with AdBlue) over 20 months and 24K miles is one CEL at about 4K for a DEF malfunction.Since then it's been a reliable beast.Starts at -31F (with God as my judge...last January),gets 42mpg on the Interstate and can still pin you back in your seat with its torque.I'm assuming that the new Bluetec will do the same which is why I'm looking to buy one soon.

DubVBenz

The new bluetec is the same engine they've had since 07 (I think). It's definitely no slouch, but I think you'll find there's a large difference between your 335d and bluetec. I would consider a 335D coupe if they sold it here, but I just don't like the sedan's looks. If I'm forced into a sedan, it might as well be large enough to be useful.

ImInPA

Almost 10K absolutely trouble-free miles on my 2011 E350 Bluetec. Overall mpg for the past 5K miles is 32.4 mpg (according to the computer). I regularly see high 30's on the highway at 75 mph. The torque is right where Americans spend most of their time in the rev band. It is really hard to find a nit to pick. Oh, there is a perceptible diesel vibration when first started when cold when compared to the gassers.