DubVBenz

Given that the 722.6 wasn't even fitted with a drain plug, I'd say that it was endorsed by Stuttgart. Remember, this was all the rage in the late 90s, with the fake idea behind it that by not opening it up, you wouldn't introduce contaminants. ZF Did it as well, with similar results

Also, that's not to say it isn't a robust transmission. Everyone knows that with regular service intervals and fluid changes that they're likely a longer lasting transmission than the 722.9 that replaced it.

Tomsearay

Yet another gl350 engine seize!!!! I also have a 2010 gl 350 with just over 80,000 Kim's and it stalled yesterday morning while going to work two blocks from my house, hadn't even warmed up yet let alone over heated. No lights no warnings no smoke or sounds of any kind. I had it towed to my mechanic who has said it is seized. He disconnected all belts to ensure no drag or anything else could be stopping it from hand turning the motor over by socket and bar on the crank. He could not budge it at all!! He said same thing as all other posts about oil being sludgy as well. I had just bought the car, think 5 months ago, from a "super car" dealership ( I will protect their name for now as still awaiting a response from them) so don't know service records but I was booked to take in for the service b today!
I am in Canada and unsure what to do. I have been in touch with the non MB car dealer I bought it from and still waiting.
The mechanic I use is not at MB dealership, but very competent and specializes in MB, and VW's.
Did the OP have any luck with MBusa?
Is there a chance that the engine is not seized but something else? Seized timing chain or ? I am not a mechanic but have some limited experience in rebuilding small block Chevys decades ago in high school. Before some crazy responses get posted I know these motors are entirely different!
Anyways any help is greatly appreciated or if nothing else maybe MB will realize they have a problem and do the right thing!
Kind regards,
Tom

Carsy

Hello Tom,

Best to investigate further the true cause of the seizure.

Can you do some sleuthing & find the service records. They will be important in any claim.

How many Km have you done since buying it?

GLKpaul

Hello Tom, sorry to hear that, recommend you read the thread through for an understanding of the entire issue. OP did not get anything from anyone, and he let it go.. Again read the thread with give you clarity on this and alot of helpful info.., best of luck post your progress please...

Paul...

krd2023

Tom,
I'm sorry about your conundrum and I share your MB pain. Welcome to the (unfortunately) growing numbers of us dealing with sludge (among other mishaps i.e. premature oil leaks) with MB bluetec engines. Hopefully the informative posts from others in this thread will help you since I started this thread from the April 2015 engine seizure in my 2010 ML350 bluetec at 82K miles. As folks encouraged me prior, it may benefit you and others to obtain a forensic oil analysis. I'm still awaiting mine and will post my results when available. To hopefully save you some research, it seems that Signum Laboratory* is the best option for a proper analysis. Signum is somehow tied directly to ExxonMobil as indicated in the attached photo showing shipping label information from my kit. You may obtain full instructions on how to proceed with an oil analysis by contacting ExxonMobil Lubricants by phone @ 1 (866) 328-8036. Good luck with determining the cause of your bluetec failure! *This is assuming your car used Mobil oil (my MB dealer claimed to use the following oil at each 10K-mile recommended oil change interval: Mercedes Part # Q1090143 , which represents MOBIL 1 ESP FORMULA MB 5W-40)

LSkrabut

On Post 155, (Page 7) I thought it might be prudent to ask my MB dealer during a50k service if they had a camera/bore scope to take a look at the bottom end ofmy OM651 (I4), not the V6 OM642, being discussed. While I did not get a photo,but SA did stated the bottom end was very clean.

Now I wonder if more PPL who have the means available to use camera/bore scope while during an oil change to take a looksee at their bottom end via the drain plug,or a valve cover where oil is added to the motor?

While at this time I do not have a bore scope, I am sure thinking about getting one, if nothing else, to keep a look out for sludge in both the valve cover and oil pan when I do start to do my own oil changes, if not before that happens. I do happen to have a MB ELW to125K, just to cover possible issues like this.

Now other thoughts I have had. I wonder if these motors which got sludged, what is their normal run history. Were they ran as a diesel should be, over the road miles, with at least 30-60 minutes of full warm up, or short in town miles, never really getting totally warmed up and oil up to temps to possibly prevent sludge buildup. Just wondering since I got one of these so call oil burners myself. Now on my motor, I do tend to run 60 miles each way on a commute, 120miles daily, so I personally feel my circumstance, my OM651 motor is somewhat running as a diesel is really designed to run.

Carsy

In my opinion it is too late if the oil has begun to sludge but the borescope idea should give piece of mind .

I agree that long runs are best for any engines lube system but the trick is to know that the oil will require changing more often under more challenging circumstances.

If I had one of the engines in question I would change the oil every 6,000 - 10,000 miles or 6 monthly & be very confident no sludging would occur. Oil is cheap .

marc hanna

I've been doing regular oil analysis on my CDI and the reports come back with better than average numbers. Doing a test at about 10,000kms (6,000miles) is a good indication of how much longer you should wait until your next change. In the end it's a little overkill, but it will give you a lot of good information on how well your engine is running.

B Marques

Over kill or not I change my oil at 5k on all my cars. I am more worried on the timing chain issue than the sludging on my GL350. I don't understand the little more spent on an oil change can save a big headache, but people still tend to risk it. 10k is way too much on a oil change. I was living in NJ and 10k in NJ is way different than the 10k in Florida where I live now, but people don't differentiate between city and highway miles. This engine does have its issues (oil cooler seals and timing chains), but I believe manufactures have to change into 5k synthetic oil changes.

marc hanna

I'll be doing my next oil change at 18,000kms (11,180miles). I think with synthetic oil and large oil pans, changing at 5,000 miles is a little unnecessary, but there's certainly no harm done, and if it gives you a little peace of mind, why not?

B Marques, have you ever sent your used oil off for analysis?

mhasan4

This is a basic materials science issue. It is a shame on MB no to recognize this oil leak. When they use rubber gaskets in the hear of the engine, it will fail sooner or later and the records show that. Nothing short of a metal gasket should have been used there. It is a tue shame for MB who has over 80 years of experience with Diesel. Their old diesel engines never leaked and ran for over 700000 miles with no issue. We should work for a court order to pull all the record of diesel engines with the cheap gaskets. No one should have ever paid a penny for this fault. I am totally for a law suit against MB. let us join forces and get this taken care of.

Busstuf

I asked the question on the GL website a couple days ago "Bluetec or Gas". After three responses I decided to do a search and came up with this incredible thread! i certainly will not buy a diesel and I am hesitant to even buy a MB. I am sorry to hear about the issues you have experienced.

marc hanna

I have a diesel MB and I've had no problems with it. It's a CDI, so it should technically be more problematic than the Bluetec because of the higher rate of EGR. In fact, in general you will find them quite reliable, much more than Audis or BMWs. This thread is the exception to the rule - and quite frankly, such occurrences are very rare. There was clearly some sort of issue with the engines that failed, but we'll probably never know exactly. The OP seems to have had the misfortune of having a bad or uncooperative dealer.

It's unfortunate that MB wouldn't help out, but the warranty is what it is. If the OP can demonstrate that the dealer damaged his vehicle, then he's got a case.

My sister had an Audi A4 and the engine blew up at about 100,000kms (62,000miles). It was out of warranty and Audi wouldn't do anything about it. Because of that one occurrence, should all people stop buying gasoline model Audis?

Every car company has problems. Period. Buy what you like and drive it.

Busstuf

Marc: I have a A8L TDI and a GMC 2500 HD duramax in the fleet currently. I have had virtually no issues with either one in 200k miles. Where I live,Biodiesel is the norm. Levels are from 5-20% and MB will not cover a warranty over 5%. I spoke to three MB service techs last week and two of them said that they would go gas if they were buying new. That is what prompted me to start the thread on the GL site.

marc hanna

I think the biodiesel clause has been lifted. But I'm certain on that. North American diesel is notorious for poor quality and inconsistency. I've always used additives, even when allowable sulphur levels were higher.

Anyway, my experience with MB diesels has been positive.

Carsy

Oil testing results are slow !!

krd2023

Attached (3 pages from Signum) are the results of the oil analysis from my seized OM642 Bluetec engine, which some of you have been awaiting. I hope the data is useful, and interpretations from some of you tech experts may be helpful to several following this thread. I'm merely a former MB customer who counted on my MB dealer and MBUSA to conduct and advise me on all proper services / repairs throughout the life of my 2010 ML350 BLUETEC before it failed me @ 82K miles in 2015.

Note in the attached report, the oil sample quantity was very limited and my MB dealer missed at least one opportunity to change the oil while servicing before the engine seized.

Carsy

KRD, Hope this results in some resolution. I hope Glyn can report.

mbdiesel12

Is there more to the attached report? It has nowhere near the detail of my oil analyses by ALS Tribology or Blackstone Lab. What about metals, contaminants, additives, etc.? Viscosity@100 looks very low to me. Mine runs around 11-12. VOA for that oil is 13.4. TBN on it is 5.5.


I'm not an expert but soot level is close to what is expected or acceptable. Also looks like coolant is not a problem.


The report says the oil has 12K miles on it. That's over the recommendation. If the dealer missed an oil change you might have an argument.

Glyn M Ruck

Sample size was too small to do elemental analysis etc. so the results are as much use as **** on a bull. Was this sample very thick or semi solid? I'm worried it was polymerised in which case a go/no go lab won't be able to assess. i.e. there will be a liquid phase & a heavy agglomerated solids phase. Oxidation is through the roof while soot shows low. I'm inclined not to believe this. High rate of oxidation is likely reason for low TBN as the product becomes more acidic with rising oxidation. I can do nothing worthwhile with these results. Also remember that the sample has to be representative of what the engine is seeing. Sampling technique is critical in this regard. Sorry! Where are the results of product sent to ExxonMobil?

dave2001auto

I find it hard to believe that a modern premium oil (group III+ or 4) will polymerize/gel with proper flow under 10,000 mile OCI's. There needs to be a major failure or very short interval at very cold temp.

I would look at oil flow blockage, pump failure, and that the oil changes were not preformed or partially preformed. I know one FL resident who won in court that the rental car's oil was not changed and engine seized. Other suspects exhaust pipe against the oil pan or oil line. Coolant would have high water and propylene glycol in the oil (easy to analyze).

Draining by the pan detects sludge better than draining by the dipstick.
I even do 5-9k oil change intervals on my toyota gas minivan with Group 2 oil (187,000 miles) and no problem. Mostly city driving. I don't do much 2-D paper chromatography analysis on the oil anymore. Just by eyes (color and particulates on the oil on dipstick).

dave2001auto

Drop the oil pan and start taking pictures and samples. If the oil polymerized there should be gelled oil stuck to the screen, shaft, cover, filter, etc. Even it you went an extra few thousand miles between oil change, there usually a safety factor built into the oil change intervals. Did the engine ever overheat or blow a coolant line? I think the metal can be 400 F or more. Oil is used to lubricate and cool the metal part. Hot oil is cooled by the oil cooler and the regular cooling system.
I never thought Mobil ESP oils were that durable compared to premium HD DELO's. Metals needed to be reduced for the DPF and cat. To do the proper low SA test (metals), phosphate also had to be reduced. Low metals and low phosphate made a less durable oil and oil starvation failure.

Glyn M Ruck

We have visible proof that something very wrong is occurring here:




The trouble is that as one goes up the Group scale of base oil quality so additive miscibility becomes steadily more of an issue in the base fluid. To make matters worse 229.51/52 have an ash clamping limit of less than 0.8 while the gas version of the product is greater than 0,8 typically 1.2 to 1.6 allowing a considerably higher additive treat than the diesel oil. This was done by Benz to ensure that no one product could meet both gas & diesel specs as was previously possible & to protect the emissions & regen units on diesels. i.e. effectively sacrificing a little engine life for the sake of the emissions gear. Also the Diesel version of the oil does not have to meet the severe HTHS (high temperature high shear) requirements of the gas version due to low rev limit & far less aggressive cams, allowing for the use of less expensive base oil. There is definitely a high temperature element to these failures or we would not see oxidation where it is but this might only occur in the terminal stages. I also believe that there is a soot agglomeration issue likely in what we see. With a relaxation of spec I'm sure we as an oil industry could cure the symptom. Benz needs to establish the root cause. These engines were designed to run on Euro 6 diesel & poor fuel quality could well be a contributing factor combined with less than ideal operating conditions to create the "perfect storm". There is no doubt in my mind that a 229.5 product would improve the situation but it would violate Benz recommendations.

dave2001auto

Glyn,
That's nasty. Regular oil drain plug oil changes look warranted than sucking up through the dipstick. It looks as if the oil pan should be removed and inners inspected every 2 to 3 oil changes. Could the ERG be stuck? Soot progressively clogging the filter and lines, low oil flow, then overheating of the oil and gelling?

Is engine seizing problem only when group III oils are used or also with group IV oils? The

dave2001auto

"There is definitely a high temperature element to these failures or we would not see oxidation where it is but this might only occur in the terminal stages." Even if the engine didn't seize, that much sludge is part of the walking dead. Glyn, in line with the engine being at the terminal state, polymerization rates increase exponentially.

ESP 229.51 oil in the USA sells for much more than 229.5 oils.