Where did all that CARBON come from????
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2015
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2010 ML350 Bluetek
Where did all that CARBON come from????
In my post "Engine running rough and no one knows why". I told the sad tale of my problem with a 2010 ML350 Bluetec with 96,000 miles. No compression in #3 cylinder and low on #2.
Here is my background first. I drive mainly on road trips and I am not an aggressive driver. I service the vehicle according to schedules and change the oil at around 5,000 miles. I just spent more fixing this problem than I did when I bought my first MB Diesel new. (see the first post)
I have never seen this much carbon in an intake and cylinder heads. I know how and where to buy diesel. I do not buy bio diesel.
My question is this what is causing this and is this common? Would a fuel additive help and if so which one. (I don't currently use one). I am seriously considering getting rid of this vehicle and Mercedes if this is common. If I can't find an answer it will be goodbye.
I appreciate any and all comments. Thanks
Super Moderator
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: VA
THE C350
The intake manifold gets dirty due to EGR valve and the oil separator failing/not being enough. You can delete the EGR valve and add a catch can or elephant hose mod to take care of that though.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
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2010 ML350 Bluetek
Thanks for the comment. My mechanic checked the EGR system and found it to be OK. That was the first thing he checked.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2013
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E320
It's because the EGR is working that you're seeing the buildup of carbon in the intake manifold. The crankcase ventilation itself isn't such a bad deal, but EGR on a diesel is probably one of the worst engineering decisions by mankind. The soot doesn't burn - which is why it's used to cool the fuel burn process to reduce NOx emissions. But when mixed with oil vapor from the crankcase ventilation system it's great at choking your intake system and causing more wear with the valves and combustion chamber and dirty oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 10
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From: Chicagoland
Sprinter 2500, Subaru
It's because the EGR is working that you're seeing the buildup of carbon in the intake manifold. The crankcase ventilation itself isn't such a bad deal, but EGR on a diesel is probably one of the worst engineering decisions by mankind. The soot doesn't burn - which is why it's used to cool the fuel burn process to reduce NOx emissions. But when mixed with oil vapor from the crankcase ventilation system it's great at choking your intake system and causing more wear with the valves and combustion chamber and dirty oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
Just before I bought my Sprinter 3.0CDI the owner had to replace intake manifolds ($3000) due to the swirl valves seize up. I took the old manifolds with butterflies from him and it was all gunked up pretty bad. Took me a few hours to clean it and the butterflies remained seized. Kept it for my removal project. I'm in tuning/remapping business so I can confirm the huge benefits of turning off the EGR plus nice tune. Saving big in repairs, fuel, better response and driveability and extended oil change intervals with good synthetic oil due to less DPF regenerations- less oil contamination. These engines have a great potential, they're just tuned down way too much from the assembly line.
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From: Massachusetts
2011 E350BT
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2015
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From: Chicagoland
Sprinter 2500, Subaru
So it depends on the substantial reduction meaning, is it 10% or 50%?
I see it more like a partial solution.
I'm using Amsoil injector cleaner every other tank and thinking about trying their cetane boost.
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Newbie
Joined: Mar 2013
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E320
Water injection is another viable method of keeping a diesel engine clean and efficient.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...jection+diesel
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...jection+diesel
Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 87
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From: SoCal
R320 Bluetec
I have a 2009 R320 Bluetec. I have been looking at solutions for cleaning the carbon. Mine has 86,000 miles on it. I have had some intermittent problems, including Check Engine lights that hint at my intake being clogged or at least dirty.
Question is, where is the best information on how to clean the intake, EGR valve, and any sensors that may be clogged or dirty. I intend to keep this car for a long time, so knowing how to clean this emission mess is important.
Thanks
Question is, where is the best information on how to clean the intake, EGR valve, and any sensors that may be clogged or dirty. I intend to keep this car for a long time, so knowing how to clean this emission mess is important.
Thanks
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 10
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From: Chicagoland
Sprinter 2500, Subaru
I work in a shop (only part time now) where we use BG machines for all flushes. BG makes a nice machine for Diesels, unfortunately it's very expansive and it takes couple gallons of cleaning solutions. It take hours to completely clean the intake though. The service costs over $500.
You can purchase a spray can for diesel cleaning, where you remove the hose (before the intake) and while engine running spay short bursts of cleaner in. Never done it and doubt it's effective for CDI intakes. It's somewhat dangerous if you spray more then recommended.
Another way is removing EGR and cleaning it manually , it's fast, but it will not clean the Intake butterlies.
To remove the intakes for cleaning, roughly 10 hour job. Might be less for someone experienced.
So disabling EGR and even hookup oil catch can/separator is the best solution. Unfortunately tempting with emission devices is not legal on the highways.
You can purchase a spray can for diesel cleaning, where you remove the hose (before the intake) and while engine running spay short bursts of cleaner in. Never done it and doubt it's effective for CDI intakes. It's somewhat dangerous if you spray more then recommended.
Another way is removing EGR and cleaning it manually , it's fast, but it will not clean the Intake butterlies.
To remove the intakes for cleaning, roughly 10 hour job. Might be less for someone experienced.
So disabling EGR and even hookup oil catch can/separator is the best solution. Unfortunately tempting with emission devices is not legal on the highways.
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
2023 GLK250, 1987 560SL
I've been thinking about cleaning the intake for some time with one of these aerosol spray in products like the Liqui-Moly ProLine Diesel Intake System Cleaner. I'm just not sure I want it to go through the turbo or the MAF. So that makes it a little difficult to find a location to spray it in without a fair bit of disassembly.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 87
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
R320 Bluetec
I have been down this emission equipment road with full size trucks in the past and understand the issues technically and legally. That being said, for OFF ROAD USE ONLY .....
Does anyone make a reliable tune/tuner and hardware for EGR delete? I have a 2009 R320 Bluetec and I am having problems that are likely caused by or exaggerated by these emission systems.
Are there any shops that someone can recommend in Southern California that have experience with cleaning the intake. At 112,000 miles I would be more than willing to pay $500 for a good clean, and then do spot cleaning myself.
Thanks
Does anyone make a reliable tune/tuner and hardware for EGR delete? I have a 2009 R320 Bluetec and I am having problems that are likely caused by or exaggerated by these emission systems.
Are there any shops that someone can recommend in Southern California that have experience with cleaning the intake. At 112,000 miles I would be more than willing to pay $500 for a good clean, and then do spot cleaning myself.
Thanks
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 115
Likes: 5
97 s320
I have been down this emission equipment road with full size trucks in the past and understand the issues technically and legally. That being said, for OFF ROAD USE ONLY .....
Does anyone make a reliable tune/tuner and hardware for EGR delete? I have a 2009 R320 Bluetec and I am having problems that are likely caused by or exaggerated by these emission systems.
Are there any shops that someone can recommend in Southern California that have experience with cleaning the intake. At 112,000 miles I would be more than willing to pay $500 for a good clean, and then do spot cleaning myself.
Thanks
Does anyone make a reliable tune/tuner and hardware for EGR delete? I have a 2009 R320 Bluetec and I am having problems that are likely caused by or exaggerated by these emission systems.
Are there any shops that someone can recommend in Southern California that have experience with cleaning the intake. At 112,000 miles I would be more than willing to pay $500 for a good clean, and then do spot cleaning myself.
Thanks
they reprogram your ecu with a tool they send you to disable swirl flaps and egr plus more power and torque.
*******.com is a software site where some there will disable dpf and adblue for a price.
Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 87
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
R320 Bluetec
i have looked into this and found green diesel engineering but they currently don't do bluetec because of lack of demand so call them or go to the website, maybe they will look into it with enough people interested
they reprogram your ecu with a tool they send you to disable swirl flaps and egr plus more power and torque.
*******.com is a software site where some there will disable dpf and adblue for a price.
they reprogram your ecu with a tool they send you to disable swirl flaps and egr plus more power and torque.
*******.com is a software site where some there will disable dpf and adblue for a price.
I need to pull the turbo and clean it. It's sticking and causing underboost LHM.
If I keep the car I do want to do EGR and some more power. I'm not really that interested in eliminating all the emissions.
Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 87
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
R320 Bluetec
At this point between a coolant system flush when I first bought the car in 2015, the radiator hose, the new radiator, and the EGR coolant line this engine has been flushed and refilled with good new coolant 4 times in 13 months. UGH.
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 115
Likes: 5
97 s320
I've been thinking about cleaning the intake for some time with one of these aerosol spray in products like the Liqui-Moly ProLine Diesel Intake System Cleaner. I'm just not sure I want it to go through the turbo or the MAF. So that makes it a little difficult to find a location to spray it in without a fair bit of disassembly.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
I hope it's safe with dpf and scr.
I will post when I do it
Steve
