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There is a lot of discussion on the forum about oil and oil change intervals for the Bluetec. First, I only use the Mobil 1 spec oil and I change it at 7500 miles. It's a pain in the *** and expensive but just part of the deal IMO.
I own a boat with motors that require 40 Gallons/ 20G each of a similar spec oil. You do oil analysis every year and usually what you're looking for is sodium or saltwater getting into the oil. That can save a very expensive problem.
At any rate, I always do analysis on the Bluetec too. I've included a readout from a recent change. It gives a 10K sample and a 4K sample. The 10K sample had a higher iron content but it dropped down.
Just meant as information if some of you do samples you can use it as a comparable. FWIW.
I am surprised at how high all the wear metals are, compared to the normal levels shown on the right. I assume there is something about the *.52 oil that causes high wear. The lower viscosity could play a small part, but there has to be more involved. Perhaps the additive package has been reduced to the point where wear is increased. Those of us that typically run cars a long time could run into early wear problems with these newer engines.
How do you do oil test?
Do you take car to a lab and they take samples or you drain some oil for sample?
You have a small pump that goes onto a bottle. Long tube that goes into the dipstick. Pump a couple of ounces out and send it in enclosed in the container that is pictured. There are always local places that do the analysis too. usually $25-30.
I am surprised at how high all the wear metals are, compared to the normal levels shown on the right. I assume there is something about the *.52 oil that causes high wear. The lower viscosity could play a small part, but there has to be more involved. Perhaps the additive package has been reduced to the point where wear is increased. Those of us that typically run cars a long time could run into early wear problems with these newer engines.
They are high. I've attached a sample from one of my boat motors. A little different in that these motors take 20 Gallons of oil so maybe that would show lower lever but they are 22L so maybe not. To your point, metal wear on iron is 1/10.
Sample kits are available free of charge from most any lab of which there are many. I use Blackstone. The kit consists of a small bottle, a form for pertinent data and a shipping container. The right photo in Boulder's post #5 is of the kit.
Boulder's suggested procedure works fine, especially on a boat where the crankcase drain plug is, in many cases, inaccessible and removing the old oil involves vacuuming it via the oil filler pipe.
I usually take a sample with the car on the lift for oil change. Optimally the oil should be hot/warm. After removing the crankcase drain plug, allow a couple of quarts to flow into the used oil receptacle and then insert the sample bottle into the stream momentarily. You only need a couple of ounces. Wear gloves, used diesel motor is nasty. My tech does this for me. Complete the accompanying form, place everything in the shipping container and mail via USPS to the lab.
In a week or so you will receive lab results by email. It will detail everything they found in your oil in ppm (parts per million) including dirt, coolant, chrome, iron, soot ect. And they will be able to tell what internal component from which its emanating. There will also be commentary detailing the labs findings and what, if anything, needs further investigation. My experience has been the lab routinely tells me its ok to extend my oil change interval by 2,000 miles. Not something I would do with a BluTec.
I am little concerned about the iron content and will most likely switch to Pentosin High Performance II 5W-40 (also 229.51) during the next oil change just for comparison.
We use air powered oil extractor as shown below (bought from well known nationwide tool shop).
This is turning out to be kind of interesting. Iron levels are high and similar in everyone's samples. I wonder if there could be an additive in the oil? For example, one set of motors I test has high copper but that's because there is a copper sealant used in the factory that shows up.
There are a lot of bluetecs out there in Sprinters that should have high miles. Does anyone know if the 3.0 runs a long time in these applications?
[QUOTE=arto_wa;7026506]
I am little concerned about the iron content and will most likely switch to Pentosin High Performance II 5W-40 (also 229.51) during the next oil change just for comparison.
Assuming your current oil complies with the MB BluTek specification don't see any reason for changing brand. Saying this because its unlikely doing so will alter your iron readings. Further, based on the engine oil your lab report reflects your using, seems you'd be hard pressed to find anything significantly better.
Your concern is understandable, but don't overthink what could be considered an insignificant increase in iron. Small increases in material ppm from one sample interval to the next is, for the most part, normal. On the other hand I've seen increases of 100+ ppm which can be an indication of impending failure.
Blackstone's comments indicate your engine is in good shape. If your still not comfortable, consider perhaps sampling halfway through your normal oil change interval. Otherwise sample at your normal interval which appears to be 7,000 miles.
Assuming your current oil complies with the MB BluTek specification don't see any reason for changing brand. Saying this because its unlikely doing so will alter your iron readings. Further, based on the engine oil your lab report reflects your using, seems you'd be hard pressed to find anything significantly better.
Your concern is understandable, but don't overthink what could be considered an insignificant increase in iron. Small increases in material ppm from one sample interval to the next is, for the most part, normal. On the other hand I've seen increases of 100+ ppm which can be an indication of impending failure.
Blackstone's comments indicate your engine is in good shape. If your still not comfortable, consider perhaps sampling halfway through your normal oil change interval. Otherwise sample at your normal interval which appears to be 7,000 miles.
Good luck!
Thanks for the good comments - couple of replies:
Liqui Moly Toptec 4200 and Pentosin High Performance II 5W-40 are both 229.51 oils, but the Liqui Moly has 5W-30 viscosity as is shown in the oil report!
This was my second oil change and first sampling since buying this car in August so the only comparison I have are the results from my previous car 2010 VW TDI, which I sold back to VW last month. It's iron content was 30 last time. One of these engines uses camshaft timing belt vs. chain in the other. Lot of small moving parts in a long chain - I wonder how much that affects these results?
Both cars were/are used for long highway trips - no short commuting at all.
Oil sampling at half way point is a good idea and I will do that soon.
[QUOTE=arto_wa;7026506]Here is my recent oil report.
I am little concerned about the iron content and will most likely switch to Pentosin High Performance II 5W-40 (also 229.51) during the next oil change just for comparison.
We use air powered oil extractor as shown below (bought from well known nationwide tool shop).
March 30, 2017 Update:
Here is a new oil analysis report after 7,600 miles of mostly highway driving.
According to Blackstone all values are good, however I still don't like the iron level (went from 54 down to 52)!
I have now switched from Liqui Moly 4200 5W-30 to Pentosin High Performance II 5W-40 (which is also Mercedes specification 229.51 oil), just to see if it makes a difference in iron?
High iron seems to be relatively common to the newer BT engines. At 36K miles on the car my iron number is 68. There's been a downward trend but it's not yet stable. From new my four oil analyses showed 157, 118, 84, and 68.
Hopefully the engine is still breaking in. I've used two different brands of oil during the four samples. I'm not sure changing brands makes a difference. Time will tell.
High iron seems to be relatively common to the newer BT engines. At 36K miles on the car my iron number is 68. There's been a downward trend but it's not yet stable. From new my four oil analyses showed 157, 118, 84, and 68.
Hopefully the engine is still breaking in. I've used two different brands of oil during the four samples. I'm not sure changing brands makes a difference. Time will tell.
Only a hunch, but I suspect wear in the long camshaft timing chain...
High iron seems to be relatively common to the newer BT engines. At 36K miles on the car my iron number is 68. There's been a downward trend but it's not yet stable. From new my four oil analyses showed 157, 118, 84, and 68.
Hopefully the engine is still breaking in. I've used two different brands of oil during the four samples. I'm not sure changing brands makes a difference. Time will tell.
I wonder if these newer diesels are more demanding on oil than the old diesels. I have just read a blog by an engineer that has done a fair amount of oil testing. His tests have changed my thinking about oil. The report is long and tedious, but if you stick with it there is a lot of information in it. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
It shows that diesel oils are not generally good at wear prevention. It also shows a couple additives can dramatically improve wear prevention in high stress or high heat applications. It also tests a few low viscosity diesel/gas oils with good wear prevention, down near the end of the long report. If I had a Bluetek I believe I would try some of his high rated oils to try to get the Iron down to more normal levels.
I agree with you. The blog changed my mind on oils in general also.. I posted that blog on two different posts here recently for people to read and judge for themselves. Based on the rankings I'm going to try Pentosin Super Performance iii 5w30 on my next oil change. It's MB Approved for my car with a 229.51 spec and it's very high up on the wear rating scale. Certainly can't hurt.
Don't know if you follow or believe in the 540ratblog above but the author adamantly says not to use additives. He posted some wear results with additives due to public interest but states that they may in fact cause harm to an engine. I think at least some of them are chlorine based and eat away at bearings. One manufacture has a class action suit against them.
At a minimum they change the oils basic chemistry. Not necessarily for the better. He recommends just choosing a high ranking oil from his wear rating tests.
I'm not trying to be evangelistic about his blog but with all his credentials he seems to be the real deal and is not affiliated with any company.
In the end we all have to make our own choices though.
I have read some of it and don't know what to say.
Liqui Moly is a German company making for example "MB-Approval 229.51" Liqui Moly TopTech 4200 oil and they have been in oil and MoS2 additive business since 1957.
My MB Owners manual says, " Do not use lubricant additives, since they lead to increased wear & damage to mechanical assemblies. The use of lubricant additives will result in a restriction of your warranty"
You may receive a warm & fuzzy glow from adding them but no so your engine.
The big irony here is that oil companies will generally tell you not to add additives to their oil yet some of them sell additives. Adding in more molybdenum disulfide to an oil that already has a balanced formula could upset the chemistry.
Perhaps a call to Lubro Moly about adding that additive to their Liqui Moly TopTech 4200 oil would answer the question for you. If you're not using Liqui Moly oil then a call to your oil manufacturer might help.
01-12-2017, 11:34 AM
