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The car is an old mercedes 409D from 1984 with 168.000 km. I've driven it for 10.000 km, and had no problems with it until I ran out of diesel, and since then I can't get it to start.
Day 1 - Ran out of diesel. Went for more diesel & placed it inside the tank, the car was hard to start but cranking & keeping high RPM it managed to stay working. After that I went to the gas station, and filled the tank to half. The car engine turned on perfectly. Went home & turned the car off.
Day 2 - In the morning, the car turned on once after I did the “bleeding” process through the “jango” bolt. I saw the bubbles coming out and the air leaving the system. Therefore the car started once, but then died again, and from there I wasn’t able to make it work. Lot of cranking but no ignition. Battery died, and we tried hooking it to other batteries. Also changed the diesel in the fuel filter & filled it to the top.
Day 3 - Take a look & change the glow plugs. All 5 of them. Two of them were not working, the other 3 were weak.
Day 4 - New glow plugs in, tried to start the car hooked to another car’s battery & a starter primer spray. The car cranked but the engine did a strong sound, and therefore we stopped trying because it sounded pretty strong & bad.
****German****
Tag 1 - Der Diesel ist bei laufendem Motor ausgegangen und der Tank war leer. Habe Diesel geholt und in den Tank gefüllt. Das Auto war schwer zu starten, aber durch das Halten hoher Drehzahl schaffte ich es zu starten. Danach ging ich zur Tankstelle und füllte den Tank zur Hälfte. Motor startete perfekt. Ich ging nach Hause und stellte das Auto ab.
Tag 2 - Am Morgen schaltete sich das Auto einmal ein, nachdem ich den "Entlüftungsprozess" durch den "Jango"-Bolzen durchgeführt hatte. Ich sah die Blasen herauskommen und die Luft das System verlassen. Deshalb startete das Auto einmal, starb aber dann wieder, und von da an konnte ich es nicht mehr zum Laufen bringen. Viel Kurbeln, aber keine Zündung. Die Batterie ist leer, und wir haben versucht, sie an andere Batterien anzuschließen. Auch der Diesel im Kraftstofffilter wurde gewechselt und nach oben befüllt.
Tag 3 - Glühkerzen untersucht alle 5 . Zwei von ihnen arbeiteten nicht, die anderen 3 waren schwach.
Tag 4 - Neue Glühkerzen, Versuch, das Auto an die Batterie eines anderen Autos anzuschließen und mit Starterprimerspray zu starten. Das Auto kurbelte an, aber der Motor machte ein lauten Knall, und deshalb hörten wir auf, es zu versuchen, weil es ziemlich stark und schlecht klang.
Please fill up you profile with car model and location.
I am not aware about 409D model.
What we had in USA at the time were 300 series.
Some pictures would help?
Now judging from your description you might have air bubble that is stuck in the system. Did you try to crack open 1/4 turn couple of injector high-pressure lines?
So, the 409D is a bit bigger than the 309D, with an OM 617.913 engine. Some of the 309D series share the engine with this one.
I did open the injectors a bit, but not 1/4 .I would say just a notch until they are not super strong anymore. I also bled the system through the banjo bolt. Today I was going to try - after all the new glow plugs were in. However, when I went to start the car with the starter spray as well, the engine made a loud noise when switching the ignition, and a I was scared to try again, as was confirmed by a nearby mechanic who told me that I could make things even worse.
Sorry for the bad picture, could only get hold of this one, but you get the idea.
Those engines have no connection to ignition other than activating the starter. They run without electricity and it is vacuum switch that kills them.
Meaning whatever noise you could hear by turning the ignition to on, could not be engine- related.
But really sounds like case for professional mechanic.
Those engines have no connection to ignition other than activating the starter. They run without electricity and it is vacuum switch that kills them.
Meaning whatever noise you could hear by turning the ignition to on, could not be engine- related.
But really sounds like case for professional mechanic.
It wasn't only the ignition* I turned the key all the way to crank it and start it, but it cranked a bit and then the loud sound happened, and then I was afraid to try it again (this was the time I really hoped it would work, since all the glowplugs were changed & system was bled & starter fluid was used).
I live in Konstanz, Germany, and everywhere I call nobody knows about this old cars, and prices for mechanics are around 100 eur - hr. Which is wayyy to much for me, especially when they take over 10 hrs to remove the engine, and way too long to check anything since they dont know their way around these cars, and then I pay with cash their lack of expertise.
Therefore Im looking at options to send my car back home (Spain) were everything is cheaper if I don't find a solution.
I think he may have toasted the engine due to excessive use of ether when trying to start the engine. That stuff dries out the cylinders real bad...
Can you expand on this? I did use a primer starter that I'm pretty sure contained Ether, and the engine did blow while using this stuff. Could this be the reason? If so, what are the consequences? Which parts could be damaged?
Really need some guidance... as to just know the problem of the engine it will be thousand of euros in my area :/
I'm by no means an expert, but I remember trying to start an 18-wheeler tractor engine and the driver freaked on me because I'd continued spraying that stuff for more than a second or two. He said that it was really easy to ruin the engine because the ether dries out the cylinder walls. If you've got mechanical noises while cranking, that can't be any good.
Regular starting fluid can self-ignite prematurely on diesel, knocking the engine in reverse.
Sound is something impossible to judge over the internet, but I would start with turning the engine by hand, using big socket on harmonic balancer bolt.
When engine turns freely, maybe the noise is just burn starter.
Also having roots on Poland, I know the mechanics there still work for less than $20/hr and the old MB are still kept alive. Not sure if that would be better option than taking it home to Spain, thought.
At least you broke in nice place. I loved Boden Zee area.
Good luck.
Thx for that last post, I had no idea about the reverse rotation possibility.
I found the following after doing some research. Very interesting about the different damage ether can do.
12-13-2018, 09:21 AM
Mercedes 409D (1984) Broken engine / Ignition?
