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Watch out for rising oil consumption. The oil control rings on the pistons is tasked with scraping excess oil off the cyl walls every time the piston goes down. The combination of unburnt fuel and excess heat from every time the DPF regens as well as soot from EGR can make the oil control rings become stuck in the ring groove. Once that happens the ring can no longer scrape oil off the cyl walls so the oil is instead burned in the combustion chamber. The excess oil consumption cloggs up the DPF which forces even more frequent regen cycles which in turn accelerates oil consumption further... it's a run away effect. Once oil consumption starts to increase there's nothing you can do about it besides rebuilt or replace the engine. It doesn't help that MB specified low viscosity gasoline engine oil in its diesel engine but that's a discussion for another thread. I don't think any engine oil can prevent this failure mode, only delay it. If you notice oil consumption rise above baseline even a little bit, sell the car quickly.
Heres an example of a stuck om642 oil control ring. The top 2 compression rings are perfectly normal. This engine cold started and ran perfectly every time with plenty of power when it wasn't in limp home mode. The 3rd ring down is the oil control ring. Notice how it sits flush with the piston. On tear down 4 of 6 oil control rings were stuck. Owner complained of excess oil consumption for years (unknown amount), and getting stuck in limp home mode with DPF codes. The car was dealer maintained it's entire life on the dealer schedule. Dealer installed a new DPF at owners expense which also quickly clogged up. At 220k miles dealer told the owner it needed a new engine at which point he dumped it.
for comparison here are new rings. The piston rings are supposed to be springy, free to press up against the cylinder walls.
Some of those engines exceeded 1/2 million miles in Sprinters, where they work at least twice harder than in SUV.
Common issue on them are oil cooler seals and intake flaps gumming.
Suppose the seals got updated in later years, but they are still not bulletproof.
For intake gunk, there are intake cleaners available. MB shop in Colorado gives good recommendations. for BG (?) cleaner, who require expensive injector.
I bought Liqui Moly cleaner and still have it on the shelf since all 3 of my Bluetecs run perfectly.
I mean main engines as emission systems are still weak point and lately I had $6000 jobs done on my Sprinter on DEF system.
$5000 covered by warranty and $1020 cash.
Are there any fuel additives that help the rings before they are stuck?
if it was a gas engine I would fill each cylinder with solvent. Let it sit and then turn it over slowly a few times.
I don't know what to do with a diesel.
Guess you could do about the same, but would have to pull the injectors or glow plugs.
And I understand that also has risks.
I don't know tjts votes for using oil outside of MB classifications and now he comes with frozen piston rings.
Never heard about frozen piston rings from people who did use proper oils.
I don't know tjts votes for using oil outside of MB classifications and now he comes with frozen piston rings.
Never heard about frozen piston rings from people who did use proper oils.
You mental gymnastics got you all confused. I advocate for using diesel oil in MB diesel engines because I've seen the results of MB dealers using gasoline 229.xx oils in diesel engines. You know a lot of people doing full rebuilds on om642s? Id like to meet them. Take your oil nonsense back to the oil thread.
I see a lot of commercial Sprinters getting service at MB dealers?
given that companies with fleets would more quickly notice correlation between MB service and failures, they must be doing something right.
If they use a CK oil, maybe 228.51, does it shorten DPF life, or maybe DPF replacement is seen like other service items and expected at some number of miles/years?
All that aside, other suggestions for longevity would be great.
Oils don't have direct affect on DPF life, but read the topic about seized engines.
When it was never investigated that far, some indication shows that 228.51 category oils dealers put in those engine, created phenomena turning oils into gelatin.
Modern diesels require much more than just lubrication from the oils.
When it was never investigated that far, some indication shows that 228.51 category oils dealers put in those engine, created phenomena turning oils into gelatin.
Show me one example where a dealer ****ed up an engine 228.51 oil. Most MB dealers don't even stock that stuff anymore. Far more likely scenario is that Mercedes is telling its owners to go 20,000 miles between oil changes.
You need to work on your English comprehension. As I wrote, there was nothing proven as the owners usually wear out with field of lawyers MB USA has on its payroll.
When dealers denied any wrongdoing, the owners check that they most likely used the oil they had in bulk in barrels, not spending big money the 229.52 cost at the time.
Doesn't take much thinking what oils MB dealers used in bulk 5 or 10 years ago. At least for person who knows something about oils.
SAPS doesn't kill a DPF, it cloggs it up. You can always take off the DPF and have it cleaned out, reinstall and it's still good. I've seen these engines burn 1qt/100 miles, constant limp home mode and that DPF can still be brought back to life. SAPS is only a issue for MB's emissions compliance perspective. If the DPF cloggs up before 150k? miles it's a warranty claim they have to deal with. They'd rather have your engine destroy itself on low SAPS oil than deal with a DPF warranty claim. There are very good reasons why diesel engine oils are engineered with certain additives. MB decided to tell its owners to use low SAPS gasoline oil in diesels engines to protect their bottom line. They know that of the engine fails on low SAPS oil, it'll probably happen outside the shorter engine warranty period. You have to choose between your engine longevity or having the DPF cleaned once in a while. We already know what Mercedes chose for you.
SAPS doesn't kill a DPF, it cloggs it up. You can always take off the DPF and have it cleaned out, reinstall and it's still good. I've seen these engines burn 1qt/100 miles, constant limp home mode and that DPF can still be brought back to life. SAPS is only a issue for MB's emissions compliance perspective. If the DPF cloggs up before 150k? miles it's a warranty claim they have to deal with. They'd rather have your engine destroy itself on low SAPS oil than deal with a DPF warranty claim. There are very good reasons why diesel engine oils are engineered with certain additives. MB decided to tell its owners to use low SAPS gasoline oil in diesels engines to protect their bottom line. They know that of the engine fails on low SAPS oil, it'll probably happen outside the shorter engine warranty period. You have to choose between your engine longevity or having the DPF cleaned once in a while. We already know what Mercedes chose for you.
2013 GL350 198k+ 56k past AEM. Burns no oil between 5k OCI and runs like a top. Just replaced engine mounts so that tells you how I drive it, pretty hard. I have owned it since 92k miles and ran T6 in it for about 50k and delvac ESP 5-40 since about 150k. I know the oil thing starts plenty of arguments however, I do subscribe to a diesel needs diesel oil. If the DPF has to be replaced a little sooner so be it. I’m getting between 425 & 490 miles average between regens.
2013 GL350 198k+ 56k past AEM. Burns no oil between 5k OCI and runs like a top. Just replaced engine mounts so that tells you how I drive it, pretty hard. I have owned it since 92k miles and ran T6 in it for about 50k and delvac ESP 5-40 since about 150k. I know the oil thing starts plenty of arguments however, I do subscribe to a diesel needs diesel oil. If the DPF has to be replaced a little sooner so be it. I’m getting between 425 & 490 miles average between regens.
Is there a way to tell when the vehicle is doing a regen or when it needs one? My VW TDI will have a DPF light, and run the fans (plus a noticeable smell).
Recently my GL350 had a check engine light after period of time with nothing but short trips. I told my wife to take a trip on highway for a while and the light went away. I’m guessing these don’t have a separate DPF light?
Is there a way to tell when the vehicle is doing a regen or when it needs one? My VW TDI will have a DPF light, and run the fans (plus a noticeable smell).
Recently my GL350 had a check engine light after period of time with nothing but short trips. I told my wife to take a trip on highway for a while and the light went away. I’m guessing these don’t have a separate DPF light?
unfortunately MB did not include any indicator that the car is in REGEN. One thing that happens is the idle goes up by 100 RPM but it’s hard to tell.
unfortunately MB did not include any indicator that the car is in REGEN. One thing that happens is the idle goes up by 100 RPM but it’s hard to tell.
Well I guess I should have been more clear. The VW DPF light comes on when the filter is getting clogged, usually a regen happens shortly after. The Regen in the VW is quite noticeable.
Does the MB just use the CEL instead of a specific DPF light?
Well I guess I should have been more clear. The VW DPF light comes on when the filter is getting clogged, usually a regen happens shortly after. The Regen in the VW is quite noticeable.
Does the MB just use the CEL instead of a specific DPF light?
Unfortunately MB does not give ANY indication that the vehicle is in REGEN or coming up on a REGEN. It all happens behind the scene. If the CEL light comes on there’s a problem.
Found my answer. The clogged DPF will give a check engine light under code P2463XX. So there is not a seperate indicator for DPF like the VW has. If I see it again I will get it scanned to be sure. We cleared the code by taking a trip on the highway.
Unfortunately MB does not give ANY indication that the vehicle is in REGEN or coming up on a REGEN. It all happens behind the scene. If the CEL light comes on there’s a problem.
Why would they? They even cancel oil pressure sensors on modern engines.
Only in last years MB start installing DEF level gauges.
Turn out important as on some models DEF has heater above the bottom, so low fluid level would expose the heater, overheat and burn it.
On Sprinters the heater is integrated part of $3000 reservoir.
Unfortunately MB does not give ANY indication that the vehicle is in REGEN or coming up on a REGEN. It all happens behind the scene. If the CEL light comes on there’s a problem.
You can see the regen and soot load levels via an OBDII dongle, IIRC.
03-07-2023, 09:27 AM
