GORBETTTEAM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7987826598

MTI

There are approximately 9 sets left.

GORBETTTEAM

I knew,....that you had to be somehow involved w/this product. LOL.
BTW. How is it? There's a lot of talking about them...but after all everyone says that it really doesn't help that much. May I ask: what's your opinion?
- J -

MTI

Actually, my involvement is minimal to none. I loaned an adjustable camber arm to the seller for him to take dimensions and he's having them made and is the Ebay seller. I'm awaiting reciept of a set to install in my car.

The rear camber adjustment is welcome since in the OEM setup, there is no adjustment available, unlike the front suspension. Depending on the drop, most shops can adjust the front camber to preserve tires and handling. I think the idea of duplicating the OEM arm shape and bushings makes sense. Supposedly it works on all 5-link Mercedes rear suspensions.

CDP

hmm...I'm going to look into these and I might purchase a set. What are they made out of?

e320newbie

ive been told these are a must for lowering. im gonna get a set in a while after i get a review

CDP

It's always a must unless you want to go through expensive tires all the time. That's really a bargain. My friend said he picked one up for is W208 for around 800.

jrmd01

GORBETTTEAM
You're the 1st person who posted that these adjustable camber arms "really doesn't help that much". Those who have them are very satisfied. Check out the W202/W203/W210 forums. Most of the really low cars are using the adjustable camber arms made by "speedybenz".

Another route you could take is the KMAC camber kit. I've been keeping an eye out on the adjustable arms and have been comparing them with the "camber bushing kit". Both have their pros and cons. Do a search to get a complete background on these 2 products.

MTI
Just wondering...from what I read from various forums, both the front and rear OEM setup are adjustable. Problem is, they can only be adjusted very little. For cars with lowering springs the OEM setup will never allow you to get within normal range. To do so, you'll need to buy "adjustable bolts" from the dealer for the front, and either the KMAC kit or the adjustable camber arms for the rear. Most people adjust their camber because of uneven tire wear, not to improve handling...you actually have better handling with a slight negative camber.

Regarding your supplier, is he/she in the automotive field (MB mechanic, suspension specialist, etc)? The only reason I ask is because you want to make sure the product is strong and safe enough to use on your car. Sounds like you'll be the "BETA tester" since these are the first sets made...I wouldn't do it. Kind of risky.

ChrisDPham
$800? Your friend got ripped off. I've seen them around $300. Intstall is a matter of removing 2 bolts. Here are some links to 2 places I know of that carry adjustable camber arms:

The first one is being used by many members in the W202/W203/W210 forum.
The second one is made by delsingmotorsport.

http://speedybenz.com./

http://www.delsingmotorsport.com/mercedes.htm

GORBETTTEAM

JRMD01,
I quote you:
MTI
Just wondering...from what I read from various forums, both the front and rear OEM setup are adjustable. Problem is, they can only be adjusted very little. For cars with lowering springs the OEM setup will never allow you to get within normal range. To do so, you'll need to buy "adjustable bolts" from the dealer for the front, and either the KMAC kit or the adjustable camber arms for the rear. Most people adjust their camber because of uneven tire wear, not to improve handling...you actually have better handling with a slight negative camber.

Yes that's the problem I'm talking about...., so, I guess I'm not the first to mention that

jrmd01

Yo "G";

I was referring to the OEM cambers...can only be adjusted very little

The aftermarket ADJUSTABLE camber arms can be adjusted alot. So they're very helpful for lowered cars.

And the fight is on... ...Hehehe just kidding. You can "school" me if you want, I don't mind learning something new about my car.

Anyway, since we're on the topic of the "CONS" w/camber arms here are some issues I've read about...(I think they've been addressed by the manufactures):
1. Since they're adjustable, they can easily become misaligned as easy as they're aligned. Therefore you'll have to check them periodically and re-set them if necessary. (I'm sure they have some kind of "locking mechanism" now to keep it aligned.)
2. Some have problems with rust (manufactures are now using better materials and are taking the extra step to teflon their product. So I don't think this is a problem with the arms nowadays)
3. Some have problems with the bushing (whoever you buy the arms from, just make sure they're not using some cheap rubber made in some 3rd world country)

Peace

CaliE320

I have a set of adjustable camber arms from Speedybnz. I can tell you they are worth it and a defenite must for lowered cars. If your lowered W124 is butterflying in the rear these arms can help with that...
Right now I took them off to get powdercoated...

~Cali

GORBETTTEAM

Yo, J!
LOL. My fight was over before I even begun fightin'. I'm weak for sh*t and I really need good beating for even thinking about spending another buck for my junk
Yo, Cali!
Powder coating sounds good....show some pics when you get it back, okay?
- Thanks -

MTI

With the rear OEM plastic strut, there's really no appreciable adjustment without getting an adjustable arm. It's my understanding that there'll be adjustable toe-in arms coming soon as well, but most of our cars don't have that issue in the rear unless there have been some chassis issues, or changes to the mounting points.

How much you can adjust the front camber will depend on the amount of drop. On the W201, some owners with lowered cars have been able to use the stock adjustments to "dial out" the excess negative camber. Adjustable camber plates at the top of the strut towers would be a great product.

The maker is a gearhead "racer" and knows his stuff. That's why he went with the OEM bearings. It not only maintains the engineered ride, but more importantly it places less stress on the chassis mounting points and is safer for long term street use.

jrmd01

MTI

Sound like you really know your stuff when it comes to camber. I barely know the minimum. While discussing the front cambers adjustments, you mentioned "Adjustable camber plates at the top of the strut towers would be a great product" - have you asked your gearhead "racer" friend if he could manufacture one? I bet that would be a money maker. There are a cr@p load of people who have their cars slammed and are looking for ways to keep their front cambers within normal specs.

I assume your friend races at the Campbell race track. Does he have his own shop or does he just do this "on the side". If he has a shop, maybe I'll stop by and check it out. Compared to LA and San Diego, there aren't many customizing shops in Hawaii.

cap'n jasper

Nope, the rear camber is not adjustable without aftermarket bits.
They come as standard but it's a good idea to use new ones when messing with the suspension.

Question:
If you adjust the rear camber using these camber arms doesn't the top of the wheel sit further out? Could be a problem for those of you that already have rubbing issues in the back?

Josh K

Not really. Those arms on ebay look like junk. With the adjustment in the middle, the weak spot on the arm is now in the middle, and it's hard to tell from the pic if they're even adjustable on the car.

That $300 is most likely for two arms not four, and using nowhere near the quality of materials that were used for mine. My arms are made of T6 Aircraft Grade Anodized Aluminum and are not any heavier than the stock arms. Furthermore, the auction states that the reason for not using Heim ends is that they wear out over time I suppose that's why they're used on aircrafts (at least the ones on my camber links are). Rubber bushings keep the suspension in the bind that occurs when you lower the car, and are probably used because they're a couple of bucks vs. $40-$50 per aircraft quality heim joint. Finally, my link set consists of 4 arms, which is what is required to completely adjust the rear camber. To anyone that doubts this, when your car is in the air, take out the bar that this and speedybenz's kit replaces. Now move the suspension and wheel hub - you will notice that it does not only pivot in the in/out camber plane, but on all three planes (camber, caster, and toe). The only way to completely and correctly adjust the camber is by replacing all four camber links.

Could I have gotten cheaper camber bars? Yes. But this is a benz, not a Hyundai, and I'm not one to cut corners on something as important as suspension parts. I'd rather pay a little more for top shelf stuff (If you say could get them for $300 that would be $600 for four arms, which is not to far off from my arms, which are made with the best materials)

The arms in question:


My TRAK-Links:

Josh K

The front camber adjustment bolts from the dealer (a.k.a "crash bolts") are fine if your car isn't lowered, but they don't really allow for more than about .6-.7° camber adjustment (not enough to bring a lowered car back or close to specs). The only other front camber solution is the K-Mac bushing kit. It's very effective, but not cheap (about $400) but it's very good quality and for those that have their cars lowered and want their front camber brought back to specs, this is the only way to go. I've emailed them to see if they would be willing to do a group buy for us.

Yes, people with slammed cars rely on the excessive camber to prevent rubbing. From what I've gathered from most people that lower their car that much though, the like the look of the butterflied wheels and don't really care that much about performance or tire wear - that look is all they want. I track my car, and with the additional HP that I'm going to have from the s/c that's getting installed right now, I need as much rubber on the road as possible.

ksing44

It looks like you have some nice suspension upgrades on your car, but isn't the smaller "camber arm" actually for adjusting the rear toe-in? The rear toe-in is already adjustable, with an eccentric mounting bolt that is OEM. The K-MAC kit includes a second eccentric bolt for the toe-in, but I didn't use it since the OEM set-up already has one.

Regarding front camber adjustment parts from K-MAC, I don't think they make one for our cars. They only have the rear eccentric bushings. My understanding is that you would need some kind of custom plates, if you wanted more adjustment capabilities for the front camber. With subtle lowering, the front adjustment should get you in or close to spec and the K-MAC bushings or rear adjustable arms will get the rear in shape. With some diligent tire rotation, the tires should last for a reasonable amount of time, although I bet you won't set any records for long-lasting tires.

Josh K

Well I'm not too familiar with the 124 suspension, I have a 208. On my car, the toe is adjustable through the tie rod end, the smaller link while offering additional toe adjustment, is more for camber on the 5 link rear.

That sucks that K-Mac doesn't make a front kit for the 124. I'll ask around and see if I can find anyone that would be willing to develop one.

AMG_Eric

heim joints are far superior to bushings. good quality heims that is. i have seen the japo versions of heims get destroyed on panhard bars and front suspensions of pre-runner race trucks. heims are also used in HIGH end 4 link and 3 link suspension kits for old classics and new upgraded suspensions.

as far as his shaft being smaller then stock the wall thickness i am sure more then makes up for it and they are straight and not curved. additionally thickness is usually associated with shear if i remember correctly and there isnt a whole lot of shear going on when you have 2 heavy duty hiems like those.

i would love of set of those rear links if i started to auto cross my car. that would be the kind thing to do.

jrmd01

cap'n jasper

Thanks for your input. BTW....from what I've read, you're correct adjusting the rear camber using these camber arms pushes the top of the wheel further out. So in theory, it could be a problem for those that already have rubbing issues in the back. Hopefully someone who's have them on can speak from experience.

Josh K

O.K. now I see why you spent $800 (BTW nice arms, where did you get them?). I assumed it was only for 2 arms (not 4) because on the W124 only 2 is needed. For $300 I was referring to either of these 2:
1. speedybenz arms - Zinc Plated Drown Over Mandrel (DOM) Steel Tubing, Chrome Plated Oversized Chrome Moly Steel Rod End Bearings, Kevlar / Teflon Filled Bearing Race, Custom Machined Stainless Steel Inserts For Seamless Fit
2. delsing motorsport arms - CNC machined, anodized, super strong aircraft aluminum. AURORA Teflon® lined high strength rod ends. Nickel plated adapters.

I was also skeptical with those arms on ebay. When MTI mentioned that these were the guy's 1st sets, I was even more skeptical. Speedybenz went through a couple of arms before finally having a design that he felt was safe enough to sell via his website. You pointed out a very important possible flaw in the design. (MTI this is what I was referring to...make sure the arms have been tested and are safe. Maybe you can bring up Josh's point to the manufacturer)

Josh your setup is very impressive. How low did you go on your car? Can you post a pic of your whole car and your suspension & wheel specs? With all the "Benjamins" you spent, are your tires wearing down evenly and in a timely fashion? I've got to go visit the W208 forum to see what kind of experience you guys have with the different suspension set up. I also agree that the suspension is a place where you don't try to cut corners.

Josh K

Here are my suspension specs:

•Eibach Pro-Kit Springs
•Koni Yellow Adjustable Shocks (Stock setting in back, #1 setting in front)
•Currently #3 Spring Pads All Around (this will change as I'm currently dialing in my suspension)
•HoP Rear TRAK-Links (Currently have the 4 bar set, I will also be changing the radius arms to a TRAK-Link for caster adjustment, as well as to complete the 6 bar set)

In the future I plan to add:
•Eibach/AMG Sway Bars
•K-Mac Front Camber Kit

I'm going to try and find my most current alignment spec printout so you can see what my alignment was prior to the rear TRAK-Links. I haven't gotten it aligned since the TRAK-Links were installed as the car is now at the shop for supercharger installation. Once I get the car aligned I'll post those specs as well.

The bars that I got can be obtained from www.hopracing.com
Their site is under construction, so it would be best to contact them directly.

Josh K

Actually I looked into it and the 124 has a 4 link just like the 208 so to completely adjust camber, you would still need 4 arms.

Also,

I checked with K-Mac, and they DO offer a front camber kit for the 124 - it's the same kit that's used on the 208. I'm going to be getting one of these kits in the near future, and K-Mac offers GB discounts. I'm not going to start a thread about a group buy on here cause I'll get banned, but if anyone in SoCal wants to get in on it, PM me. The catch for the GB is that they ship the order out together so anyone coming in on it with me would have to be local.

ksing44

K-MAC definitely does have a camber kit for the W124, but it is for the rear camber. I have the rear camber kit on my car. Are you sure they also have a FRONT camber kit for the W124?

The W124 does have similar arms for the rear alignment, but as I commented above, the one that is used to adjust toe-in is already adjustable with an eccentric bushing. I'm not saying that it isn't nice to have those special bars. I am just saying that the second set isn't absolutely necessary, since it is already adjustable in that location. Then again, I suppose if you need a lot of adjustment, you might have to get it with the second pair of adjustable arms.

My car isn't very low, but I like it the way it is.


I have the alignment specifications for the first time my 1995 E320 was aligned after I added the Eibach springs. The Porsche race-tuner mechanic found specifications for Mercedes Benz, 92-95, 124.034, “Sport Suspension”. I asked for the minimum front toe so that the tires would not get worn-out on the outside edge, like they did with the OEM set-up. I have since gone back to almost maximum toe-in to try to counter the tendency for inside tire wear that seems to be inevitable, even with only slightly increased negative camber. I also asked to have the rear camber adjusted to within the same range as specified for the front camber. I figured the rear camber wasn’t specified because it isn’t adjustable from the factory, but I installed the K-MAC rear bushings so that it could be adjusted.

I should also add that my camber was slightly more negative at my most recent alignment. It has been three years since I added the springs and bushings and I think the springs may have settled just a bit. My car is just a little lower than when the springs were first installed and I think the slightly lower ride height may have increased the negative camber. It is still OK for me, but now it is -1.3 in front and -1.7 in the rear. I let it go the way it was. It may be ridiculous, but I guess I am a little afraid of having anyone mess with the K-MAC bushings.

My first alignment after the Eibach springs and K-MAC bushings.
Front
Camber: Min -1.33, Nominal -1.00, Max -0.83, Actual Left -1.2, Actual Right -1.1
Caster: Min 9.92, Nominal 10.42, Max 10.92, Actual Left 10.5, Actual Right10.4
Toe: Min 0.08, Nominal 0.17, Max 0.25, Actual left 0.09, Actual Right 0.08

Cross Camber: Min -0.33, Nominal 0.00, Max 0.33, Actual -0.00
Cross caster: Min -0.50, Nominal 0.00, Max 0.50, Actual 0.8
Total Toe 0.17 0.33 0.50 0.18

Rear
Camber: Actual Left -1.2, Actual Right -1.3
Toe: Min 0.13, Nominal 0.21, Max 0.29, Actual Left 0.14, Actual Right 0.15

Total Toe: Min 0.25, Nominal 0.42, Max 0.59, Actual 0.29

Darth Speed

These Camber Arms are designed for street cars. Any car lowered or not can benefit from them if you have excessive camber or an inner tire wear problem.

Heim ends are great for thier purpose. but I feel they don't belong on a street vehicle which owners DON'T maintain their cars.

You only need one set of 2 arms to adjust camber.