3-4 shift flare 1995 E320
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
3-4 shift flare 1995 E320
I think I have what some people refer to as a 3-4 shift flare. It only happens when I am accelerating slowly and the car shifts from 3rd to 4th gear. Let me start at the beginning. My engine light was on and the dealer told me it was related to the transmission kickdown solenoid valve. In addition to replacing the valve, they replaced all kinds of seals, the gasket, and the vacuum line while they were working on the transmission. Everything works fine, EXCEPT the shift to 4th gear is kind of delayed and the motor races a bit in between the shift (flare). It only happens during the shift to 4th gear when I am accelerating slowly. My car kind of sits between gears for just a moment as it tries to shift to 4th gear. It doesn't happen when I accelerate briskly, it doesn't do it any other gear, and it doesn't seem to be affecting the kickdown when I step on the gas to accelerate quickly.
I am wondering if there is just some kind of adjustment for each gear, or did they mess something up when they were working on my car. It didn't have any issues when I took it to the dealer, except that the light was on. Now they have "fixed" it, and I have a weird shift to 4th gear.
Please help me direct the dealer to right cure for my problem.
I am wondering if there is just some kind of adjustment for each gear, or did they mess something up when they were working on my car. It didn't have any issues when I took it to the dealer, except that the light was on. Now they have "fixed" it, and I have a weird shift to 4th gear.
Please help me direct the dealer to right cure for my problem.
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From: Southern California
1995 E320 Cabriolet
Originally Posted by ksing44
I think I have what some people refer to as a 3-4 shift flare. It only happens when I am accelerating slowly and the car shifts from 3rd to 4th gear. Let me start at the beginning. My engine light was on and the dealer told me it was related to the transmission kickdown solenoid valve. In addition to replacing the valve, they replaced all kinds of seals, the gasket, and the vacuum line while they were working on the transmission. Everything works fine, EXCEPT the shift to 4th gear is kind of delayed and the motor races a bit in between the shift (flare). It only happens during the shift to 4th gear when I am accelerating slowly. My car kind of sits between gears for just a moment as it tries to shift to 4th gear. It doesn't happen when I accelerate briskly, it doesn't do it any other gear, and it doesn't seem to be affecting the kickdown when I step on the gas to accelerate quickly.
I am wondering if there is just some kind of adjustment for each gear, or did they mess something up when they were working on my car. It didn't have any issues when I took it to the dealer, except that the light was on. Now they have "fixed" it, and I have a weird shift to 4th gear.
Please help me direct the dealer to right cure for my problem.
I am wondering if there is just some kind of adjustment for each gear, or did they mess something up when they were working on my car. It didn't have any issues when I took it to the dealer, except that the light was on. Now they have "fixed" it, and I have a weird shift to 4th gear.
Please help me direct the dealer to right cure for my problem.
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Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Sounds good to me
Originally Posted by EKL
I had the same problem when I changed my kickdown cable. Then I found out there is a adjustment on the kickdown cable which is part of the kickdown solenoid valve. You should have the dealer adjustment it for you or show you the location (just under the hood). Good Luck.
Did your car only do the flare during the 3-4 shift? I was just a little worried since it didn't happen in every gear. I thought it could be something worn or broken inside the transmission, since it was just happening between 3rd and 4th gear. Then again, it was fine before they "fixed" all of the seals and replaced the solenoid. I thought it was very likely they just didn't get something adjusted perfectly. It does sound like there is a lot going on with the transmission, the vacuum, and the kickdown actuator, so it could easily be related to a simple adjustment.
Thanks again for your help.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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W124 E220
I'm suffering the same problem now...
Hi all ,
after all these years,my W124 1995 transmission started doing the same ksing44 transmission had in 2005,kindly,did EKL feed back solve your problem?
Here in Kuwait all indies told me the transmission needs replacement but I didn't buy what they say,I keep my tranny in a good condition and always change oil,filter and gasket on time.
Few months ago I tuned the kickdown cable by screwing it counter clock wise,the shifts of the transmission started to be later and the car became a race car,I returned it back o normal...but I noticed after that the engine flares between 3-4 the same symptoms happened to Ksing,more over it flares at start (1st gear),it just move then flares then shift to 2nd.
so please Ksing44 tell me how did you solve it? where can I find the solenoid of the kickdown cable? can I adjust it?
Thanks
Worried W124 owner
after all these years,my W124 1995 transmission started doing the same ksing44 transmission had in 2005,kindly,did EKL feed back solve your problem?
Here in Kuwait all indies told me the transmission needs replacement but I didn't buy what they say,I keep my tranny in a good condition and always change oil,filter and gasket on time.
Few months ago I tuned the kickdown cable by screwing it counter clock wise,the shifts of the transmission started to be later and the car became a race car,I returned it back o normal...but I noticed after that the engine flares between 3-4 the same symptoms happened to Ksing,more over it flares at start (1st gear),it just move then flares then shift to 2nd.
so please Ksing44 tell me how did you solve it? where can I find the solenoid of the kickdown cable? can I adjust it?
Thanks
Worried W124 owner
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Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
After trying the bowden cable adjustments, I had some success by adjusting the vacuum modulator on the transmission. You can firm up the shift a bit. Just don't make it too firm, or it really slams into gear and you can loose reverse too. I included a link below that explains what to do and explains what I did.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=182598
My car still runs and I did not replace the transmission, so it can work for a long time with a flair. Same thing is true for leaky head gaskets and timing covers. Mine have leaked for years. My son drives the car around town to school and things. No AC of course, since the evaporator is shot.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=182598
My car still runs and I did not replace the transmission, so it can work for a long time with a flair. Same thing is true for leaky head gaskets and timing covers. Mine have leaked for years. My son drives the car around town to school and things. No AC of course, since the evaporator is shot.
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W124 E220
Thanks Ksing44
Hi Ksing44,
thanks for the link,it was really amazing what you did to your car,I believe other owners would have sold the car immediately,here in Kuwait the level of technicality is very low,you can say there are no technicians here,they just replace spare parts,so what you did will never ever happen here.
My question to you,how did you manage to make the transmission shifts earlier?
is it the same bowden cable adjustment ? making it tight or loose?
what direction did you go? is it clock wise or counter clock wise?
again thanks and I really appreciate it.
thanks for the link,it was really amazing what you did to your car,I believe other owners would have sold the car immediately,here in Kuwait the level of technicality is very low,you can say there are no technicians here,they just replace spare parts,so what you did will never ever happen here.
My question to you,how did you manage to make the transmission shifts earlier?
is it the same bowden cable adjustment ? making it tight or loose?
what direction did you go? is it clock wise or counter clock wise?
again thanks and I really appreciate it.
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Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
I honestly don't remember what direction for earlier shifts, but it is easy to just make an adjustment on the Bowden cable and then drive to see what it does to the shifts. Just go one turn at a time and try it out. I am pretty sure it is looser for earlier shifts, I just don't remember which direction to turn that plastic nut on the cable to make the it looser. Actually, in your own earlier post you wrote that you made the shifts later, like a race car, with counterclockwise turns. Just do the opposite and do it a little bit at a time.
Also, the vacuum modulator adjustment really is easy too, except for crawling under the car to get to the thing. If you have a lift, it should be a snap. Same thing with the modulator adjustment, just make a small change and take a drive to see what happened. I think I would not go more than a full turn or maybe in half turn increments with the vacuum modulator.
After all the adjustments, I still have a hint of a flair under certain conditions. It is just much less often. The car has continued to run, although I don't depend on it for my commuting.
Also, the vacuum modulator adjustment really is easy too, except for crawling under the car to get to the thing. If you have a lift, it should be a snap. Same thing with the modulator adjustment, just make a small change and take a drive to see what happened. I think I would not go more than a full turn or maybe in half turn increments with the vacuum modulator.
After all the adjustments, I still have a hint of a flair under certain conditions. It is just much less often. The car has continued to run, although I don't depend on it for my commuting.
Last edited by ksing44; Mar 9, 2011 at 04:00 AM.
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W124 E220
Hi Ksing44,
after reading all the threads in the link you provided,I'm a bit confused about Bowden cable,it seems am adjusting some other cable!!!!
Is the Bowden cable that has the plastic nut that I reach when I face the engine and adjust manually by hand? or is it the cable under the throttle body that needs adjustment by 13mm wrench?!!!!
I keep adjusting the first mentioned cable and it does affect shifting!!!
if do you have pics it will be great.
Thanks
after reading all the threads in the link you provided,I'm a bit confused about Bowden cable,it seems am adjusting some other cable!!!!
Is the Bowden cable that has the plastic nut that I reach when I face the engine and adjust manually by hand? or is it the cable under the throttle body that needs adjustment by 13mm wrench?!!!!
I keep adjusting the first mentioned cable and it does affect shifting!!!
if do you have pics it will be great.
Thanks
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Yes, that is the Bowden cable, the one with the plastic nut you can adjust by hand. Sorry, I do not have a picture.
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 179
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From: New Zealand
1996 E320 Sportline Cabriolet x 2
More tension on the cable and upshifting will be delayed. It will also downshift sooner and with less pedal travel too.
Making the cable slacker will speed up the upshifts ie it will want to get into top gear sooner and it won’t want to kick down as readily.
Give it a few miles between adjustment.
There is also a spring kit that can be fitted to your gear box (without removing it) that will firm the 3-4 shifts only. If you are interested I have the part numbers for a 722.503 box. Not too sure if the same part number is to be used for a 4 speed gearbox though.
Hope this helps a little........
Making the cable slacker will speed up the upshifts ie it will want to get into top gear sooner and it won’t want to kick down as readily.
Give it a few miles between adjustment.
There is also a spring kit that can be fitted to your gear box (without removing it) that will firm the 3-4 shifts only. If you are interested I have the part numbers for a 722.503 box. Not too sure if the same part number is to be used for a 4 speed gearbox though.
Hope this helps a little........
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From: SoCal
'91 C124 300CE,'06 ML 500 W164, '00 BMW MCOUPE, '65 COBRA REPL.
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W124 E220
Thanks for all.
I will try this week end (here week end days are Fri and Sat.)
Will give you all feed back.
Concerning the vacuum modulator issue,I don't think I can do it,from the link provided by Ksing44 it is on the left side of the transmission when you are facing the car face to face,Am I right?
I will try this week end (here week end days are Fri and Sat.)
Will give you all feed back.
Concerning the vacuum modulator issue,I don't think I can do it,from the link provided by Ksing44 it is on the left side of the transmission when you are facing the car face to face,Am I right?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
At the same time, it won't be a miracle. It might help a little and can almost make the flair go away, sometimes.
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W124 E220
Hi All,
so far I have turned the plastic nut 4 times clock wise,in each time I drive the car for the turn to take effect,still no effect so far,the cable is loose but still I can kick down.
I will keep updating you.
Thanks for your concern
so far I have turned the plastic nut 4 times clock wise,in each time I drive the car for the turn to take effect,still no effect so far,the cable is loose but still I can kick down.
I will keep updating you.
Thanks for your concern
Member
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Posts: 179
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From: New Zealand
1996 E320 Sportline Cabriolet x 2
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2008
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W124 E220
one more turn,drove today and still the flare exists at start and 3rd-4th shift.
I wonder why Ksing44 still has flare,from your link I thought you solved it.
will update you when I turn it again.
Thanks for your patience
P.S : it seems we are in a totally different time zones,where are you guys from ? are you all in the States?
I wonder why Ksing44 still has flare,from your link I thought you solved it.
will update you when I turn it again.
Thanks for your patience
P.S : it seems we are in a totally different time zones,where are you guys from ? are you all in the States?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
Likes: 4
From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
one more turn,drove today and still the flare exists at start and 3rd-4th shift.
I wonder why Ksing44 still has flare,from your link I thought you solved it.
will update you when I turn it again.
Thanks for your patience
P.S : it seems we are in a totally different time zones,where are you guys from ? are you all in the States?
I wonder why Ksing44 still has flare,from your link I thought you solved it.
will update you when I turn it again.
Thanks for your patience
P.S : it seems we are in a totally different time zones,where are you guys from ? are you all in the States?
Of course for me this was all quite a long time ago. I changed the transmission fluid since then and with new fluid again it seemed to completely disappear for a while. Right now, I think it is still quite minimal, although I don't drive the car very often if at all. My son drives the car around town to high school and to his friend's houses.
I am in the USA, in southeast Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia.
Newbie
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W124 E220
Hi Ksing44,
If the Bowden cable adjustment and the pressure modulator setting will not fully solve it,what is the problem then? is it the transmission shot?
By the way,my driving profile is quiet,I don't rev the engine up and I don't race others,do I have to kick down and rev engine up in order for the adjustment to take effect?
Thanks
If the Bowden cable adjustment and the pressure modulator setting will not fully solve it,what is the problem then? is it the transmission shot?
By the way,my driving profile is quiet,I don't rev the engine up and I don't race others,do I have to kick down and rev engine up in order for the adjustment to take effect?
Thanks
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
Likes: 4
From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Hi Ksing44,
If the Bowden cable adjustment and the pressure modulator setting will not fully solve it,what is the problem then? is it the transmission shot?
By the way,my driving profile is quiet,I don't rev the engine up and I don't race others,do I have to kick down and rev engine up in order for the adjustment to take effect?
Thanks
If the Bowden cable adjustment and the pressure modulator setting will not fully solve it,what is the problem then? is it the transmission shot?
By the way,my driving profile is quiet,I don't rev the engine up and I don't race others,do I have to kick down and rev engine up in order for the adjustment to take effect?
Thanks
You should notice the effects of your adjustments even with light throttle. It will still shift earlier or later in rpms depending on the Bowden cable adjustments and the shifts will be firmer or less firm depending on the modulator adjustments.
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W124 E220
I think I got the problem
Hi all,
yesterday I decided to kill this issue,I took the car and started turning the nut and see until I hit the end of nut screw!!!!!!!I couldn't turn any more,this made me thought there was something wrong with the cable, I hold it with my hand and pull it smoothly,the cable came out away from the nut!!!!!!I was amazed,they should be attached in some how,I took a pic and here I attach it to you all to tell me whether this is the issue or not,I need a new bowden cable.
What do you think?
This thread took so much time,I'm really grateful for all of you guys.
Thanks
yesterday I decided to kill this issue,I took the car and started turning the nut and see until I hit the end of nut screw!!!!!!!I couldn't turn any more,this made me thought there was something wrong with the cable, I hold it with my hand and pull it smoothly,the cable came out away from the nut!!!!!!I was amazed,they should be attached in some how,I took a pic and here I attach it to you all to tell me whether this is the issue or not,I need a new bowden cable.
What do you think?
This thread took so much time,I'm really grateful for all of you guys.
Thanks
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
Likes: 4
From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
The picture of your cable doesn't look too promising, but it also doesn't look like my Bowden cable.
I Googled this photo that looks just like mine. The black bolt with the threads showing (directly under the green wire) is the thing I adjust to add or remove tension on the cable to change the shift character on the transmission.
I Googled this photo that looks just like mine. The black bolt with the threads showing (directly under the green wire) is the thing I adjust to add or remove tension on the cable to change the shift character on the transmission.
Last edited by ksing44; Mar 15, 2011 at 09:18 AM.
