Shoomakan

Wouldn't it be simpler for him to just install the mechanical LSD off of the 190E? The rebuild kit for that is significantly cheaper, around 80-100$ or so, and it IS better in some ways.

Only advantage the stock one has is the 100% lock at up to 19mph, which while cool isn't THAT useful. A normal LSD would work just as well, unless you drive in the snow frequently.

AMGDave

The 190E-16 diff would be a downgrade, as it's the smaller 185mm diff, while Bucky has the larger 210mm diff. Also, the rebuild kit for ~$100 most likely includes bearings and seals but probably not the clutch packs. It's the clutches that are expensive, and I don't know any source for them other than the dealership.



What you describe (100% lock to 19mph) is ASD, not LSD. This was not offered on the USA-spec 190E-16 models, only on Euro models (and it may have been optional). ASD = LSD + hydraulics... details are here.

Shoomakan

Haha, I love getting the Euro cars. :P

My diff has 150,000 miles on it. Slides around all the time on dry pavement, but it slips the inner wheel first in the wet.

Time I either rebuild or buy a another used one.

Saijin_Naib

I've gotten my relays on ebay but still, EZLs and MAS units cost a pretty penny or two.

We did discuss it prior, but clearly I did not understand fully.

What is shimming then & why is it not recommended? Would someone not be able to make a part to make the 3.27 work in the Quaife? What Quaife model is it?

What is the typical life expectancy of the clutch packs? If it wears, it just turns into an open differential again, right?

Car shopping didn't go well, c230k coupe got wholesaled by the time we got to the dealer. I can't find any 2002 clk320 or c230ks in my ideal price range with any reasonable condition or mileage.

Whatever the crazy cost of having bucky rebuilt is looking more reasonable by the day.

I'll be rocking a 98 c280 Sport for the time being. Loving the suspension in that car, well planted and a dream to drive.

stormtigers

Well Saijin if it was meant to be - I feel your disappointment. Nothing like having some cash in your pocket and going somewhere knowing you are willing to buy and tain't nothing there too spend it on !
But yesterday was my day to spend and I finally took ownership of my Ce-300 which I have fondly named 'FRITZ' with the hope that it never goes on the fritz so to speak ! ANd boy am I loving it. I finally managed to sneak out for a quick foot to the floor squirt and sheeeet that 6 cylinder which seems so meek and mild in normal driving 'screamed like a cut cat' and took off down the road like a banshee ! Guys had told me they could be quite quick but hell I wasn't prepared for that sort of take off !
Anyway mate best of luck at the next sale - besides Bucky needs you to keep him on the road as a tribute to a damn fine piece of machinery !

AMGDave

True - which is why it's good those are not frequent failures!


The LSD unit (center carrier) has the ring gear bolted to it. Different gear ratios require differing carriers for correct spacing. The 3.27 gears won't work with the 3.06 carrier. You should be able to have a shim custom fabricated to use the 3.06 Quaife with 3.27 gears, along with longer bolts. But the shim has to be *perfectly* flat, and exactly the right thickness, within a couple hundredths of a mm... not easy to do. Longer bolts are needed as well. This isn't off-the-shelf stuff.


As described above, it should be possible. Quaife model QDF5V.



Good question. I don't have a lot of data points, but my old 300D with ASD had the clutch packs totally worn out when I got it with 150kmi, to the point that the ASD basically didn't work. And that was with a 125hp diesel powerplant. The LSD I built (with new clutches) for my '87 has about 30kmi and is still working ok. I'd estimate that with normal street use, you might get 100kmi or so, maybe more with a light foot. However with racetrack or autox use, I really don't know. Could be 100k, 10k, or 1kmi depending on the engine power output and if you let the inside wheel spin in a tight turn (the spinning burns up the clutch discs). Only way to find out is to try one. You do know the factory LSD is available for 3.27, right? Just need to plunk down the dough and order one from parts.com? (Disclaimer: I have not called and inquired if they are in stock in Germany, but I do know they are not on the USA price list, meaning nobody has ever ordered one from a US-based dealer via MBNA.)


Correct.



Remember that with any used car, you're getting new unknown problems, unless you score a rare one with full records owned by a wealthy person who frequently left the keys at the dealership with a blank check and instructions to "fix whatever it needs". Even that isn't any guarantee, although it pushes the odds in your favor.



I've never been quite sure about the 202 chassis, but a C43 (preferably with E55 powerplant swap) might get my attention.

Saijin_Naib

Right? My main issue is that I have difficulty determining whether or not mine are actually working to spec. However, it appears that so far only my OVP and MAS have been 100% confirmed ****ed up. Everything else appears to be working right (EZL is a ??? though)
Ah, okay. I think I understand better now. I wonder if Quaife themselves know how to do this, or whether one of their official installers could handle this reliably. From what you told me before, the Quaife seems to be better as it doesn't wear like the clutch pack does.
Excellent, I had seen this for other benzes but it didn't seem to state specific application to the w124 so I was fuzzy on it. Now I know
Hm, doesn't sound ideal. $$ most likely and if it wears out quickly I'll be quite libel to get pissed off. I'd rather buy it once and have it last a while ala Quaife.
Sweet, well at least it isn't a catastrophic failure method. Its a quiet failure
Yep, "better the devil you know". All things in the universe willing, this thursday should see Bucky getting a full once-over by this mechanic. Hopefully he can itemize what needs/should be done and I can get an idea of what it'll cost to go forward.
I rather like the w202. I mean sure, the inside is a bit of a step down from the w124 but overall, the car is excellent. The Sport package on the c280 is just.. amazing, that is pretty much 99% of the way to how I want Bucky to feel and handle. Flat, stable, and predictable.

The C36 is cool, and the C43 is no slouch either Pretty cool sounding to boot.

I think this car is rather attractive stock, don't you?

Shoomakan

Only with the 18" Monoblocks. :P

Saijin_Naib

Unfortunately, the snow tires are on the Sport rims and we had no choice but to use the set of w210 rims for the summer rims as they came with tires :P

Oh well. Yes, monoblocks or EvoIIs would make this car look mean.

chlippo

Bret i think you are due for a change since i dont think the W124 will feel close the the C280 W202. Age and technology in every aspect of the car is in question.
The C280 in my opinion feels more alive and energized and its response when you touch the gas pedal is different. I adore the W124 in every single aspect but the newer series of MB are different, maybe not better as for build quality, but they do drive good.
The 36 is an amazing car, lot of torque!

stormtigers

Horses for Course really - depends what you want from a car.
My CE300 is my 1st MB and what drew me to it in the first place was how well it had been built and had stood the test of time. At the risk of being shouted down, I find the more recent MB's to be attractive and great performers but do not have the look that they will be the same sort of car 10-15 years down the track. As MB prices dropped and they searched to enlarge their market audience in Oz, they have become more frequently viewed as valid replacements for a good family car albeit one that costs a little more. This moves them then into the day to day 'ride' and the abuses attached thereto rather than the much valued MB sitting in the garage and lovingly cared for.
I am guessing that we on this board are the one's who WILL keep these models alive and well but they will never be of the same quality as the past era W124's etc.
If I could afford too 'FRITZ' would come out to play on the weekends and my daily 'ride' would be a more recent model, fun to drive, comfortable but not as solid or timeless.

chlippo

thats exactly what im saying!
i want a c32amg, M3 or mitsubishi evo 9 next to my W124 amg.
the newer car are fresher and faster but nothing replaces a drive in a well kept W124

Shoomakan

I want a new Mustang 5.0. Or a BMW 335i. Or a SLK 350 manual. Or a Porsche Carrera 2S.

I've always loved the old Fox Mustang. A part of me always thinks that instead of modifying the bejeesus out of my W124, I'll just restore it to it's proper glory and go buy a Fox to kill myself in.

AMGDave

Most likely Quaife won't mess with spacers, but a good rear-end shop may be willing to do it. If you are serious I would ask WhippleM104 if he would do the work for you, as he's built a few Quaife setups already, and knows what's required. You could always try to get Quaife to build a diff specific for the 3.27 gears but... IIRC, they want a minimum order of 25 units, and you'll see pigs fly before that happens.

But yes, the main advantage to the Quaife is that there are no parts to wear out, and it's practically indestructable. The disadvantage is weight... open diff is approx 10 lbs, factory clutch LSD is approx 15 lbs, Quaife is approx 22 lbs. Pretty porky! Not sure how much rwhp is sapped by the extra rotating weight... plan to do some dyno testing to find out though.

Saijin_Naib

Possibly, but I'm pretty damned picky. The 300ce was my first car ever, so I'm finding it nigh on impossible to accept a "lesser" car as a replacement. Not to mention, I have an aversion to driving/modding a car a friend already has. So that eliminates 350z, tC, Evo, s2000, GTI, 944 Turbo, Mustang GT right off the bat.

Basically, if I could afford them, my replacements would have to be a c230k Coupe, C32 AMG Coupe (never in the US I don't think), clk55 Coupe (w208), or possibly a Clk320 (w208).

Outside of Benz, I've been looking at Saturn Ion Redlines, Colbalt SS, Neon SRT4, Caliber SRT4, Talon TSi, 300zx TT, etc. Any I can afford are beat to **** :\
I may keep Bucky yet. Mechanic is still not able to take a look at it. The c280 is keeping me well for now
Ah, the Evo9 MR. Brilliant, beautiful car. Too bad it has a huge ******* stigma here in the US. Much like Mustangs and other such cars. Almost exclusively driven by ****faces and I'd rather not roll in that crowd.
Shudder. I can't stand the look of the Fox Mustang, but there is no arguing with what you can do to that car to make it fast as hell (in a straight, level line)
Mm, alright. Yeah, I've had some discussions with Whipple regarding the Superchargers and such, and he's lead me somewhat down the right path I think. If I come into tons of cash and he's willing, perhaps I can have him manufacture my dream car for me, but thats about as likely as.. well It ain't gonna happen.

Pair the heavier Quaife with a lighter CF or Chromolly driveshaft? May come out even or ahead slightly in terms of rotational mass.

Shoomakan

Come on, the Fox isn't THAT ugly. Besides, you can literally throw out everything and turn it into a corner carver if you wanted to.

Not to mention that a revised head, cam, headers and intake/exhaust would take it up to nigh 400 horsepower. :P

It's alot of fun to drive. It's light, sounds beautiful, and instantly spins rubber whenever you want it to.

Does the C280 feel faster than Bucky? It shouldn't be, by the way...

chlippo

I dont agree with you on this one. The C280 feels faster for me too! and i think its normal and logic since EFI cars have better throttle response than our CIS. plus if the engine of that C280 is the V6 (not the inline 6), i have to admit its a fast engine and the car isnt heavy.

Saijin_Naib

Put it this way, I've never seen a Fox platform Mustang I thought "Damn, I'd love to drive that"

Sure, you can throw everything off a Civic and make it toss down 1000hp (once maybe), but its still a Civic. Same goes for the Fox. It doesn't have the classic look and muscle of the 70s era Mustangs, and it doesn't have the classy yet aggressive look of the new ones. Its an awkward car, much like the C4 corvette (blegh!)

I've never driven a Fox, but again, I've never seen a nice one and I've been twice to the dragstrip on F-Body vs Mustang night so... I've seen plenty.

I'm not sure if the c280 feels faster, it feels much more nimble and responds faster, but I'm not sure on the timing or the pull yet.

Does it have an adaptive ECU? Because if so, its got about a year of my mom's driving to forget to get adjusted to me

Saijin_Naib

It may be faster, I've not timed it. Then again, anything faster than 14s 0-60 is much faster :P

chlippo

you got a V6 or in ligne 6 in that 280? tip tronic?

Ive driven a 2000 C280 sport decatted, and it was very fast and super nimble

Saijin_Naib

Its a v6, 1998 so no tiptronic, but I can go all the way down to 1 in the shift gate so that is nice. It also has nearly 200,000mi on it, but its still in amazing shape

Saijin_Naib

Car went in today (no, seriously. For real this time).

So far looks like headgasket + engine mounts + trans mounts + flex disc. Shocks & Springs are also worn, and I've the go-ahead to get those sorted. I have the H&R Sports sitting here waiting still, now I'm just trying to figure out what to pair them with.

He hasn't actually gotten into the car yet to look in depth, but I'll keep you all posted with what he finds as we go along.

chlippo

springs worn? never saw that.

as for the shocks you can get the bilstein heavy duty or sports if you want a stiffer ride

Saijin_Naib

Well, they're quite aged. They're starting to show some rust and they may have gotten a bit softer.

I'm torn between Bilstein Sports & Koni Yellows. Konis are adjustable which is, but they're about 550$ for the set of 4 which is , so we'll see.

I'm usually of the mind that I should do something once, do it exactly as I want it to be (so I'm not miserable later), and make any repair an upgrade because while I'm there, I might as well.

chlippo

the bilstein heavy duty/sports are expensive too! i dont recall exactly but it was expensive