Bigpete123

Hello,

I need a rear camber kit. I've read tons of threads on this topic, but haven't found any good comparisons between the two... with Benzboy's adjustable camber arms at around $200 shipped (with self-lubrication), they seem like a great deal.

I also have a good source for a Kmac camber kit shipped for the same price.

I would like to install the kit myself to save some cash and take it in for alignment. From what I've read, the Kmac kit would be harder to install myself.

Please help me choose!

Eliot

The KMAC will be more substantial by far. However your not going to get much range adjustment out of them. I had my mechanic do mine and he claims it took his man eight hours to do it. He had estimated it at one and he held to that when the bill came in.

You can now buy KMAC kits for both front as well as the rear if you so desire.

I think Dave M. might be the person to ask on doing the DYI.

ksing44

I am really not an expert, but I have the K-MAC kit and I have participated in many web conversations with real experts on the subject. From what I have read and experienced, there is no question that the arms would be much easier to install. The arms could definitely be a DIY project. The K-MAC kit may provide a little more room for wider tires, since it moves the lower part of the tire in, whereas the camber arms push the top of the tire out. I have read that the arms do provide a wider range of adjustment. How much adjustment you really need, is a factor of how low you have dropped the car. If you are slammed, you may need the extra adjustment of the arms. There may also be an issue with the ride comfort or durability, since the K-MAC bushing is a rather large polyurethane bushing, rather than a more simple metal-to-metal connection. Even if the arms have some kind of bushing or padding, the ones I’ve seen don’t have as much rubber as the original stock arms that you will be replacing. I just don’t know if that will be an issue in the years to come. Guys at the track don’t mind dealing with ride harshness or making adjustments on a daily basis and simply replacing the arms if they need to. The arms may be great. They are definitely an easier installation.

Bigpete123

Thanks guys.

Installation cost is definitely a consideration, and if the Kmac kit requires 8 hours of labor, it's gonna be expensive. If I can install the benzboy arms myself and take it to an alignment shop, that would save me money.

Right now I probably have 1/2" to 3/4" between the fender arch and the top of my tires. My fenders have been rolled. So I'm not too concerned about the clearance issue. If anything, it will give me a slighly more agressive look.

One thing I did read (and looking at this picture from benzboy's site I can see why) is that adjustable camber arms also mess with the toe since the camber arms don't attach right in the dead center of the hub (I think that's what it attaches to). so if you lengthen it, it will change the toe. Is this true?



See how the camber arm attaches slightly more toward the front of the car? I.e. it's at an angle?

bicylindrico

Where are the KMAC bushings available for $200 shipped? The bushing replacement seems like the better remedy to me personally. Bearings don't seem to last very long in that environment and under those conditions. I am ready to purchase the bushings.

Eliot

Email dave and ask him how long it took him to get them in. Something clearly wasn't working in my mechanics head.

CDP

Here's my current set up. Completely finished for the time being.



You cant tell but in the picture I also have TE Sway Bar links. Metal FTW!

Bigpete123

chris, which camber arms are those?

Looks good mang.

CDP

My friend made a run off of sets for the 500E guys and I was able to pick up one of the extra sets of arms.

Working on getting an adjustable thrust arm at the moment.

ksing44

I suppose it might change the toe, but it is OK because toe is adjustable from the factory. Mercedes used the same kind of eccentric bushing as K-MAC for the rear toe adjustment. In fact, that is what finally convinced me that the eccentric bushing was an OK fix for the camber problem. If Mercedes uses it for toe adjustment, then why shouldn’t I go ahead and use it for camber too. In the picture below (not my picture or from my car, but good a illustration) you can see the K-MAC eccentric bushings installed for both camber and toe. The smaller toe bushing comes with the kit, although my mechanic didn’t change the toe bushing, since my car already had the same thing from the factory.

My mechanic charged $260.00 to install the K-MAC bushings and change the rear spring pads. He said the K-MAC supplied bushing puller didn’t work very well at all, so he had to remove the bushing some other way. I think the supplied puller was just too flimsy. The mechanic that did the work for me isn't cheap. He is a high-end performance tuner, so I think you should be able to match that price rather easily. I also paid another $125.00 for the 4-wheel alignment.

Bigpete123

interesting. Thanks for the pic!

So it looks like you would have to at least compress the spring in order to install the camber bushing. Although the Kmac kit seems to be the most thorough, since the toe is already adjustable and I could install the benzboy arms myself, it's looking like the right decision for me is to do the benzboy arm.

Oh and to respond to an earlier question about the Kmac kit, I have a source who bought some but didn't end up using them- it's not a Kmac dealer.

ksing44

[QUOTE=Bigpete123;2188738]So it looks like you would have to at least compress the spring in order to install the camber bushing.QUOTE]

Actually, I think the springs just kind of fall out in the rear when he car is raised. I'm not a mechanic, but that was the way it looked like it worked when I saw my car being worked on while on the lift. Still not an easy job or anything, but I don't think you have to compress the springs

Bigpete123

Cool. I appreciate all of your input, man. You seem to have really thought through your setup.

I'm typically the guy who will go to great expense to do the best job possible on the front end. But in this case, budget is an issue (got married a bit ago, so now I have some accountability with my expenditures! ), so I have to make a more down-to-earth decision. It seems like people have had a good amount of success with these adjustable arms, and there will be essentially no installation cost for me since I'm going to do it myself... So that makes this the more cost-effective decision.

Hopefully these arms don't get out of adjustment easily, or else I'll be eating my words with multiple trips to the alignment shop!

I'll encourage my contact to try and sell his Kmac kit on the forums. I'm sure somebody hear will jump on them!

bicylindrico

Me for one.

myfirstbenz

I am considering doing something like this too with the linkages and bushings... The reason I would to this is to get rid of an annoying rattle on the left rear suspension. Does anyone else have this? It is when I go over any bump, it sounds like a tamborine pitch rattle. I noticed that my friends 91 300E does the same damn thing.

Come to think of it, my 400E did the same thing as well.

Bigpete123

I think I know exactly what you're talking about.

I had my mechanic look around for it one time while the car was in for something else. He said something having to do with the emergency brake cable being loose. He tightened it and it went away. It came back 5 or 6 months later. It's definitely coming from the rear on my car, and it sounds like a metal-on-metal rattling sound... almost like a thin/light-weight metal piece is hitting another metal piece.

I can't tell whether it's coming from the right or left side, and I can only hear it with the window down. But maybe it has something to do with the e-brake.

ksing44

[QUOTE=Bigpete123;2188906]
I'm typically the guy who will go to great expense to do the best job possible on the front end. But in this case, budget is an issue (got married a bit ago, so now I have some accountability with my expenditures! ), so I have to make a more down-to-earth decision. It seems like people have had a good amount of success with these adjustable arms, and there will be essentially no installation cost for me since I'm going to do it myself... So that makes this the more cost-effective decision.
QUOTE]


I think it is great for you to go the DIY route with the arms. There are plenty of guys using them, so it must be OK.

On the cost issue, I never intended to spend the kind of money I did on the changes I made. It was just one thing after another. Even though there is plenty of very good information available on these forums, it is easy to still be surprised after getting only par of the story. I must have read 100 times that you don’t have to worry about the camber. Then I saw my car and it was insane, even though I had only made a rather conservative change in the ride height. There are guys on here with absolutely slammed cars and they will swear they don’t have a camber issue. The same thing happens with the size of the wheels and tires. Guys have ridiculous offsets and huge tires, but they swear they don’t rub. I know if I mounted the same thing ion my car the fenders would probably rip right off.

One of these days I want to do the “Sportline-plus” swaybar upgrade, but I know that will end up being much more expensive than I thought it would be. Since I have the head gasket and front timing cover leaks and I need a new wiring harness when they do the gaskets, it seems pretty stupid to spend money on swaybars. I will just have to wait and see.

ZorroAMG

Negative Camber FTMFW. It looks good, handles great and only issue is tire wear if you don't rotate them...which I do.

Bigpete123

word. the biggest mistake I made was not getting my tires rotated. I just got lazy. I've had these tires for more than 2 years, but I hardly drive. I live and work downtown... So in terms of mileage, I should've gotten much more out of my tires.

Anyway, I just want things to be within spec as much as possible. Obviously I don't want the car to be completely stock or else I wouldn't have touched it in the first place.

And knowing how busy (and lazy) I can get, I'd rather just keep it as low maintenance as possible.

ksing44

It did handle well with the crazy negative camber, but I didn’t think it looked good at all. I thought it looked whacked. Some negative camber definitely does look good. It sure beats positive camber, but you can have too much of even a good thing. Now I have negative 1.8 in the rear, which is more than the maximum specified for the front, but within the spec sheets I remember seeing for tolerances in the rear before they recommend some kind of suspension rebuild. Since it isn’t adjustable in the rear from the factory, they don’t seem to have the same kind of specified ranges for the rear. I had negative 2.9 before the K-MAC bushings and that was too much for me. It would have been great for a day at the track, but not for riding around on my way to work.

The rotation thing definitely would have helped, but unless I actually dismounted the tires to flip the inside to the outside, I would still have gone through tires too quickly with negative 2.9. I might have even considered that, except my car is very sensitive to having perfectly balanced tires. I would have had to pay top dollar just to have my wheels properly balanced, if I went the rotate with R&R route for the tires.

myfirstbenz

anyone seen the negative camber on BMW SUV's? all the x5s and x3s have tons of this from the factory... seems like they would wear the tires out like crazy.

Bigpete123

ha that's really funny, when I was reading ksing's post, I had that exact picture in my mind (the BMW's). I wonder if that's partly how they compensate for a higher center of gravity.

ksing44

/ \ Ford should have tried that

ksing44

\ / my old 1967 VW beetle looked like this and sure enough I flipped the thing

shadowgriffen

OUCH.