Bad Front Alignment
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Walnut, CA
MB 1990 300E
Bad Front Alignment
So heres the short version of the story:
Bought 4 new tires dec' 06. Front tires were worn on the inside so I bought 2 new tires about 3 weeks ago. I have a lifetime alignment policy with Discount Tire Center so I took it to them to get the front aligned. I personally think they've been doing crappy jobs so I took the car to Just Tires to get a free alignment check. They told me the front alignment was still off, so I took it back to Discount Tire again to get another alignment. They told me that everything is still okay, and that the car only moved like 0.1 from spec.
I have both print outs from Discount Tires and Just Tires, but I really have no idea how to read it correctly. Since one says the alignment is fine, and the other says the alignment is off; are they both using the correct spec's to align it? Thats about all I could think of, is that they might be using 2 different mercedes specs?
Bought 4 new tires dec' 06. Front tires were worn on the inside so I bought 2 new tires about 3 weeks ago. I have a lifetime alignment policy with Discount Tire Center so I took it to them to get the front aligned. I personally think they've been doing crappy jobs so I took the car to Just Tires to get a free alignment check. They told me the front alignment was still off, so I took it back to Discount Tire again to get another alignment. They told me that everything is still okay, and that the car only moved like 0.1 from spec.
I have both print outs from Discount Tires and Just Tires, but I really have no idea how to read it correctly. Since one says the alignment is fine, and the other says the alignment is off; are they both using the correct spec's to align it? Thats about all I could think of, is that they might be using 2 different mercedes specs?
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 163
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1994 E320 Dragon Wagon
Yeah, the specs seem to vary a bit but the numbers aren't so far off to be concerned. The data provided is from their program look-ups provided for the alignment equipment in ranges not necessarily called out by MB.
A good front-end guy will align for symmetry using specs as a guide not an absolute. The end numbers should be close to spec but they are using experience not just numbers. The "free" check shop of course will find its off even if not noticeable or effecting tire life. They hope to hook you.
Uneven tire wear can be a result of front end wear that alignments will never correct. Does the car pull left or right when pointed straight? Okay - so it tracks straight, you monitor pressure and rotate your tires. Watch for signs of inner wear which is camber way out of adjustment. This would be obvious to even a lame tech. Ask the shop what the common cause of inside tire wear is and have them check it again. Also have them inspect the tie-rod ends, ball joints etc. They may be missing something not related to alignment.
A good front-end guy will align for symmetry using specs as a guide not an absolute. The end numbers should be close to spec but they are using experience not just numbers. The "free" check shop of course will find its off even if not noticeable or effecting tire life. They hope to hook you.
Uneven tire wear can be a result of front end wear that alignments will never correct. Does the car pull left or right when pointed straight? Okay - so it tracks straight, you monitor pressure and rotate your tires. Watch for signs of inner wear which is camber way out of adjustment. This would be obvious to even a lame tech. Ask the shop what the common cause of inside tire wear is and have them check it again. Also have them inspect the tie-rod ends, ball joints etc. They may be missing something not related to alignment.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Walnut, CA
MB 1990 300E
unfortunately, Les Schwab is 300 miles away....
White_Knuckles - what do you mean by front end wear? My car seemed like its always had suspension problems. It will always pull right or left, and wont stay straight if I let go of the wheel. I'll have to monitor the pressure and wear so these tires dont go in 6 months like the first ones.
White_Knuckles - what do you mean by front end wear? My car seemed like its always had suspension problems. It will always pull right or left, and wont stay straight if I let go of the wheel. I'll have to monitor the pressure and wear so these tires dont go in 6 months like the first ones.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
1994 E320 Dragon Wagon
XO3, By "front-end wear", I'm talking about all the mechanical components that perform steering and suspension action. Excessively worn ball joints may cause uneven tire wear and thuds going over bumps. Worn tie-rod ends can create pull or wander. There are many front-end parts that simply wear with normal use even if your car was properly lubed.
It's a 1990. I see your mileage at over 200K. The front end may need far more attention than an alignment. Find a qualified shop that will test A-arms, ball joints, wheel bearing play, bushings, tie-rod ends etc. It only takes about 20 minutes. Then ask them what may be effecting your tires and handling. I'm suggesting your focus is on alignment where the issues may be elsewhere.
These cars do wander slightly as you described. If a car has a true alignment issue it will favor one direction such as - pulls to the right and is quite noticeable. Don't forget tire rotation to get the most tire life.
It's a 1990. I see your mileage at over 200K. The front end may need far more attention than an alignment. Find a qualified shop that will test A-arms, ball joints, wheel bearing play, bushings, tie-rod ends etc. It only takes about 20 minutes. Then ask them what may be effecting your tires and handling. I'm suggesting your focus is on alignment where the issues may be elsewhere.
These cars do wander slightly as you described. If a car has a true alignment issue it will favor one direction such as - pulls to the right and is quite noticeable. Don't forget tire rotation to get the most tire life.
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Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Walnut, CA
MB 1990 300E
Yeah considering how old the car is, I'll have to get the other suspension parts checked out like you said. Im sure I could take it to TWS, but anybody know of any other shops that specialize in suspension stuff in socal?
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Manila, Philippines
We do have a humble shop here in the Philippines, we may not have the top-of-the-line equipment but decent enough to guide our technicians how to work on the cars. One thing that we religiously do is to calibrate our equipment (4-wheel aligner included) on a regular basis. This ensures that we get accurate readings.
Maybe you can aslo ask the shop you plan to bring your car how recent did they have it calibrated.
As far as specs are concerned, from Haynes:
Camber:
Estate -0deg 5mins
All other model -0deg 25mins
Caster:
Left hand 10deg
Right hand 11deg
Total Toe setting: 0deg 20mins
REAR WHEEL:
Camber -1deg 30min
Total Toe 0deg 25min
Maybe you can aslo ask the shop you plan to bring your car how recent did they have it calibrated.
As far as specs are concerned, from Haynes:
Camber:
Estate -0deg 5mins
All other model -0deg 25mins
Caster:
Left hand 10deg
Right hand 11deg
Total Toe setting: 0deg 20mins
REAR WHEEL:
Camber -1deg 30min
Total Toe 0deg 25min
Last edited by 108.016; Aug 15, 2007 at 11:42 PM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 163
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1994 E320 Dragon Wagon
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Walnut, CA
MB 1990 300E
haha not exactly, the car is registered under my dads name for discount tires, but I put down my own name at just tires. Neither of them knew that I took it to another alignment shop.
So talking with my bro, here is some info that he told me.
So i took a look at them, and yea its hard to say which one is correct.
Unless you pull from a tech manual specific to this car what are the correct
specs, its impossible to really say which one should be right. But if you
are getting inner tire wear then i would say that Just tires might be more
correct because negative camber will result in inner tire wear, it doesnt
really make sense to have negative camber on a car like yours. Having the
proper Toe is going to be most important to get accurate tire position to
reduce the inner tire wear. That may make more difference then the camber,
and according to Just tires, your Toe IS off.
So talking with my bro, here is some info that he told me.
So i took a look at them, and yea its hard to say which one is correct.
Unless you pull from a tech manual specific to this car what are the correct
specs, its impossible to really say which one should be right. But if you
are getting inner tire wear then i would say that Just tires might be more
correct because negative camber will result in inner tire wear, it doesnt
really make sense to have negative camber on a car like yours. Having the
proper Toe is going to be most important to get accurate tire position to
reduce the inner tire wear. That may make more difference then the camber,
and according to Just tires, your Toe IS off.
