Yura_Coupe

Hi!
I had bought rims to my coupe.
Its sizes are 17x8 ET 33.
What is the largest tire size for these rims that can be installed on Sportline?
I live in Kiev, Ukraine, and our roads are awful some places.
For example, would I have problems with 225/50 on front wheels or 225/45 is the largest possible to install?

PS: excuse for my english...

ZorroAMG

Your english is fine, actually better than some of the Americans on here haha!

Those wheels should be ok, size wise (17x8 ET33) as I am running 18x8 ET35 on a VERY low 300E.

Your issue is going to be sidewall. I was running 215 45 17 on my old 17x7.5 ET35 wheels and sidewall was as big as I could go. You want to run 225 50 17? Not only will it be rather big for fitment, but it will look really bad, like puffy truck tires....

I would stick with 225 45 17

YNVDIZW124

Yeah, ZORRO is right. I also understand why you need such a big sidewall with bad roads. I would get a 17x7.5 wheel with 38mm or 40mm offset to give you more space from the fender to the sidewall.

Right now you would have problems with a big tire on those wheels because your offset is 33 and it's pushing the wheel out more to the fender so 225/45/17 is the best option.

AMGDave

The proper tire for a 17x8 wheel is 235/45/17. I really wouldn't mess with narrower tires on a wide wheel... if you want a narrow tire, use a 7.5 or 7.0 wheel. You will HAVE to roll the fender lips, especially in the front, and will likely need the fender spacers also.

Here's a link to the factory docs on fender rolling:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...7x8.0_ET30.pdf

Photos of the front fender spacer are here:
http://www.w124performance.com/image...fender_spacer/


I would recommend 17x7.5 ET37 with 225/45/17 tires if possible. I had 17x8.0 ET38 (which pulls the wheel in 5mm more than the wheels you have) and I still had clearance issues, even with rolling the fender lips. I haven't had problems with the 7.5's though. If the car is too low, you'll have even more problems. I raised mine up with 400E Sportline springs to increase the ride height a little. Still looks great, but no clearance problems:

ZorroAMG

All due respect Dave but some people don't want the 2.5" of wheel gap you have. The 18x8 ET35 I have on my car with 215 40 18's fits fine and my car is dumped low. 215's fit fine on a 8" wheel...the original poster's issue at hand is aspect ratio...stick with 45 on 17s.

AMGDave

LOL. But you also have a 215 tire on an 8" wheel. Why? The tire & wheel should be matching size. Shoot, why not put on 9" wheels with a 205 tire? (ok, so I'm being facetious here, but do you get my point?) The aspect ratio is not independent of the section width, you need all three matching... and more importantly, the overall diameter (or rolling circumference) needs to be close to stock in order to retain speedometer/odometer accuracy.

I've been through this many times over the years and I've had a lot of different tire/wheel sizes on several 124's. On a 17x8 wheel, the correct tire is a 235/45/17. I had 225/45's on a 17x8 and the wheel stuck out past the tire - not much, but that's a great way to curb your wheels. A 225/45/17 is correct for a 17x7.5.

Having the car dumped low looks cool but inevitably causes issues with wheel/tire clearance, front spoiler clearance, and suspension travel. Have you ever looked at where the strut shaft stop buffer is with the car slammed that low? When you get aruond 13" from fender lip to wheel center, the car sits on the buffers... meaning you have almost zero suspension travel. BT, DT. And that's why I raised mine back up... mine is at 14.25, which is a little on the high side, but I generally don't recommend going below 14" on a street-driven daily driver. This is approximately where the factory Sportlines are set, and also about where the 500E is set from the factory.

Anyway, back to the orignal poster's question. The question isn't really accurate... it should be "what are the correct tires for these wheels", not "what are the largest I can fit on a lowered car". The proper tires should be installed, and the fenders should be rolled to accomodate them. Which goes back to the 235/45/17 with the fender mods. Oh, and the strut spacer too... almost forgot about that.

Um... you *did* look at those links I put in my first post, right? If you don't believe what AMG says, in print, there's not much point in me trying to say the same thing...

ZorroAMG

Ok, fine the correct recommended size is not always the only option. For what it's worth every tire manufacturer's sizing varies. My 215 dunlop FM901's had way more stretch and exposed wheel than the 215 toyo T1R's on my car now. No big deal, cause I don't curb my wheels The Toyos look great, work great, handle great, allow me to slam my car...etc

What more do you want? Tire rack didn't recommend 18's on a W124. Are they the be all end all? Is AMG? Nope.

Anyway....now that we've derailed the thread, I think Yura_Coupe has enough info to base his decisions on.

YNVDIZW124

Sorry, AMGDave I have to go with Zorro. I've had a set with the exact same width and offset 225/45/17 tires.

Bilsteing Sport shocks should fix this problem because they are shorter for lowered applications.

I did look at the AMG manuals and I've owned a set of AMG Aero I both 17x8 28mm and 22mm ( for SEC and SL ). These wheels need the spacer kit and fender rolling because the OFFSET is 28mm. The wheels in the manual are 30mm which are kinda pushing it on the fender. Read my post again if you didn't notice i recommended a higher offset. I know the AMG manual is the bible to you but this is not the early 90s anymore.

I understand the question he's asking and why he wants bigger tires. He's not asking what the O.E.M specs should be. If you want to tell him the specs that's ok but that's not what's he's asking.

All tire are not the same. Some tires like falken have lip protection (extra sidewall rubber). I don't need to go into detail with this but not all sidewalls are the same.

Anyways,

Say what you want but this is the list of wheels and tires i've had on my car with eibach springs (1.25" lowered).
1. 16x7.5 37mm C class Sport wheels and tires. 215/50/16 all around
2. 17x8 Lorinser RS90 wheels 33mm offset 225/45/17
3. 17x8 AMG Aero I 28mm offset 225/45/17 all around
4. 18x8 BSA 321 225/40/18 all around
5. 18x8 40mm offset 215/35/18 Front
18x9 35mm offset Rear 245/35/18 OZ OPERA II
6. 18x8.5 Brabus Rep Monoblock V 235/35/18 all around
7. 18x8 Lorinser D93 40mm 225/40/18 all around
8. 19x8.5 Lorinser LM5 35mm (they come with a spacer kit but wasn't needed) 235/35/19

Current - 18x8 BSA 235/40/18 front 245/40/18 rear....my speedo is 3mph faster but that doesn't really bother me.

All these wheels and tires do fit without major mods or fender spacers. Anything above 9.5 with 35mm or lower doesn't fit the 300e without some fender modification. I always try to keep my sidewall height the same when i go staggered. For example 215/35/18 has the same sidewall as a 245/35/18.

I've owned all kinds of wheels because i have a business selling wheels and tires apart from my current business. I also fit classic mustangs with custom wheels and tires using special offsets.

AMGDave

I guess I should clarify one thing. With the oversize wheels & tires, there is rarely any clearance problems with the car either sitting still, or rolling down the road in a straight line. The rubbing occurs under hard cornering, especially while braking (i.e., trail braking). If you don't drive that hard, sure... you can fit some pretty massive wheels and/or tires without problems. Maybe I drive harder that some folks... I used to have a roadrace competition license, and I've spent some time on Sears Point, Laguna Seca, and Thunderhill. I frequently push traction limits (but only when it's safe, and there's room to compensate for mistakes!). And at those limits, there is rubbing... even with my more conservative wheel/tire packages. All of which is why I really don't recommend oversize setups, or offsets that push the wheel/tire out, etc. But if it's working for you guys, with your driving style, that's fine.

BTW, the Bilstein (or other type) of lowering shocks do not correct the lack of travel with the car slammed in the weeds. There is a fixed amount of room available inside the fener for the wheel to travel upward, and Sport shocks/struts cannot change that. Those types of dampers have reduced *extension* only, and allegedly are valved to perform better at the lower ride height. Which is great, but the strut stop buffer is still likely to be touching the top of the strut, or awfully close to it. Make sure you replace these when changing struts... new struts don't come with them. Use the Sportline buffers (these are a dealer-only item), they are much stiffer than the squishy original ones. Even with the shorter Sportline buffer, the travel is pretty limited. If you add the AMG strut shaft spacer, the length increases.




Also... a 215/35/18 tire does not have the same sidewall HEIGHT as a 245/35/18. They have the same ASPECT RATIO (both are 35%). The first has a height of approx 75mm (215 * 0.35), while the second has a height of 86mm (245 * 0.35). The diameters are different also. The first is 23.9", the second is 24.8", while stock is 25.0". This is no big deal on most 124's with OM60x or M103 engines... but for M104 and M119's, the cruise control won't work above about 40mph because the computer senses the difference in wheel speed between front and rear. When it exceeds about 1-2%, the cruise drops out. BT, DT. The front size would be 215/40/18 to match the 245/35/18 rear. For the E500, a LOT of owners use 245/40/18 fronts with 275/35/18 rears. Although the aspect ratio is different, the sidewalls are similar heights, and the diameter/circumference matches perfectly. This is a very common setup for the 124.036 chassis.

Finally, if you're not familiar with the infamous Miata Garage tire calculator, click here for the link. For reference, The stock 124 tire is 195/65/15 (for all 124's except Sportline and the 500E).

ZorroAMG

I know how aspect ratio works. I know the stock size of the tire on a non 500E500, also I run 215 40 18...never said anything about 215 35 18...

:|

shadowgriffen

shadowgriffen

ZorroAMG

LOL shadow, nice emotipoop

shadowgriffen

thanks Z

It took me back to the good ol' days

look at this HOT AMG COUPE BELOW!

YNVDIZW124

Who is even talking about cars slammed to the weeds? My set up is only 1.25" lower. If you look at the posts from 2005-2006 we covered that the bump stops need to be replaced with shorter ones. Look at the threads from when chrisdpham put the AMG hammers and bilstein sports.

Well, 245/35/18 don't have the same sidwall height on let say 18x8 wheels but on a stretched 18x9 wheels the height is about the same as 215/35/18. MY example was on OZ OPERA II wheels 18x8 front 18x9 rear that i've owned. I know it's about numbers but when you actually had the wheels on the car it's different.

Anyways, your right then. I don't know what else to say except here are pictures of my set up right now.

AMGDave

Yup, you sure didn't. But I never said you did. It was YNVDIZW124...

AMGDave

1.25" lower than what? Stock? Sportline? New? Used? The ride height changes over time as the rubber items wear, and as gas pressure in the struts dissapates. New struts alone can increase ride height 1/2". BT, DT. I've measure some stock 124's at 15.5" ride height, others at 14.25"... lots of variation. Which is why you need to be careful... if the car is already 14.25", and you drop 1.25"... it's in the weeds. Again, BT, DT.



That is true, the tire dimensions will vary slightly depending on the wheel they are mounted on. But they don't vary drastically. Like I said, on most cars it's not a big deal if you don't have matching diameters... but on the 400E/500E, it won't work... kills the cruise control. I'm not sure about the M104 cars (E320). I would strongly recommend using a handheld GPS to verify your speedometer accuracy, btw... particularly at freeway speeds.


Looks nice! I like the black center with polished lip. As long as you're happy and the setup is working for you, that's what really matters. I just don't like recommending things to newbies that are kind of "pushing the limits". I know Yura_Coupe already purchased the 17x8 ET 33 wheels, but I would have never recommended those had he not yet bought them. He already stated that the roads in Kiev are probably not be as nice as the roads in Long Beach, Vancouver, or Boise. Mercedes even has special options for countries with bad roads, basically taller springs for increased ride height... the opposite of what most of us are doing here.

shadowgriffen

DAVE, I'm REALLY digging the 500E Euro lights! VERY nice touch!

YNVDIZW124

To me it's kinda easier to measure from the ground to the fender lip or rocker panel where the lift holes are.

These are my measurements:

Rear from ground = 26"
Front from ground = 26"

Ground to rocker = 8" Front and Back

You have a good point, I drive in los angeles all day an I never use cruise control so i don't take that into consideration. However, 225/45/17 are within spec for the cruise control in his car.

I also recommended another offset because 33 is a little too out. There is a reason i have 235/40/18 and 245/40/18 and that's because i live in long beach and i drive on the 710 freeway. Long beach is the main port on the west coast and most of the trucks use the 710 freeway to ship stuff to the rest of the country. You can only imagine what these trucks do to the freeway and that's why i need tires with a bigger sidewall. I would have bent or cracked these rims already with lower profile tires.

I actaully fitted a set of SL Launch wheels and cracked and bent them in a month. I was still able to sell the good ones on ebay to get some money back...

AMGDave

The problem with these measurements is that they vary with tire size and tire pressure. My '93 measures about 26" from fender to ground, and is about 14.5" from fender to wheel center. The only way to compare one car's ride height to another car's, without the fancy factory tool (which measures control arm angle), is from fender lip to the center of the wheel. This eliminates tire variations between cars.


225/45/17 is a perfect size (on a 7.5" wheel). This is what I have on my '87. It's identical to the OE factory tire size. What will affect the cruise control on M119 cars (and possibly M104) is not a non-stock tire size, it's when the front & rear sizes have different diameters/circumference. There are speed sensors at the front wheels and rear axle, and if the diameters vary from front to rear, the computer knows it, and thinks there's a problem. So while it's fine to have different width, offset, etc front to rear... it's best to also make sure the diameter/circumference is nearly identical too. This is usually not a problem, you just need to be careful when selecting sizes. The Miata Garage tool works great - here's the URL again:

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

V9.

Well I'll chime in here because I just went throught this.

H&R sport springs and Bilstein Sport shocks 1.3" drop with thickest spring pads

Fenders rolled front and rear.

AMG style 129 17x7.5 17x8.5 staggered setup.
Initially: 225 45 17 front ET 37 245 40 17 rear ET 30
Rubbed slightly in front under hard cornering. No rub rear but did not like the appearence of the tire sticking out past fender.

I cannot tolerate any kind of rubbing under any circumstance. I'm with AMG Dave, rubbing just shouldnt occur at all...ever. I drive my car very hard and am very impressed just how balanced this 124 chassis is under performance driving.

So I down sized to 215 45 17 front and 225 45 17 rear still on the staggered rims. And yes 225 works just fine on an 8.5" rim and the rubber is not unduly stretched...at least with BFG G-force sport.

Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revolutions Speedometer Odometer Difference

195/65-15 5.0" 12.5" 25.0" 78.5" 807/mi 60MPH 10000mi N/A

215/45-17 3.8" 12.3" 24.6" 77.3" 819/mi 61MPH 10147mi -1.4%

225/45-17 4.0" 12.5" 25.0" 78.5" 808/mi 60MPH 10003mi -0.0%

So my fronts are a little off....but my cruise control works fine and I have no rubbing in any driving condition fully loaded or not. The overall front wheel diameter is 0.4" less than stock, which gives the nose of the car a little more drop and a nice aggressive rake to the vehicle.

Plus I got the rear rubber to tuck under the rear fenders so aesthetically it looks much better than with the 245's. I'm really happy with this setup.

Since these AMG wheels/staggered setup are really common and can be found for cheap off of CLK/SLK monoblocks, 5 spoke etc I highly recommend this setup up for our cars if you are lowered and want your wheels to look flush with the fender and don't want to rub under performance driving.

shadowgriffen

I dare say you sir have one of the BEST looking w124's on this BOARD! SO CLASSY DAMN!

YNVDIZW124

V9 you set up is totally wrong....

How dare you run 245/40 on a 17x8.5 wheel!...

You know if it fits, it fits! Moving on....

V9.

HEHE i think you meant how dare I run 225/45/17 on an 8.5" rim

Just as a side note....BFG does certify this tire for use on an 8.5" rim....safety is always paramount.

YNVDIZW124

Man, Imagine if one of those VIP guys came in here....You know running 225/35/18 on a 18x9 rim or 245 on 18x10.