AMGDave

He posts on a number of MB forums, but you can email him at dhendy3697 (at) aol (dot) com .



The factory CD-ROM manuals are it - they're not user-friendly, and they are not intended for a DIY mechanic. They are intended for trained dealer techs. But, it is the factory manuals in CD form. The hardcopy manuals have been out of print for years, but you can get a set on eBay with some patience... there are 2 chassis manuals, 1 electrical manual, 1 climate control, and then 1 manual for each different engine. Usually $25-$75 per book. Here is a link to the CD manual online, take a peek and see if it looks familiar:
http://www.ps2cho.net/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/Main.html

For the 210mm LSD stuff I actually used the W126 CD-ROM manual as it had easier-to-read procedures. Click here for the LSD rebuild procedure, however if you're buying a new LSD this does not apply.



Yeah, they don't make it easy. Click here, enter the part number, select Mercedes, and then click the Search button. Forget customer service as well. You gotta know the exact part numbers, order through them, select "Freight-Quote" at checkout, and cross your fingers. You may want to read this thread for a little more background info on their operation. They're sort of a necessary evil if you can't afford to pay retail...

whipplem104

I will have my quaife unit in next week for test fitting to different housings.
I am going to try at least three different housings before I do a final install.
I also recently put one the qdf7v in the 220# housing in a clk55. I took the chance to bolt in my 129# case and it bolted in. I also measured the housings' width and the axles. I am pretty sure this is a direct swap if the qdf5v does not work out. I will post back as soon as I have more info.

Quicksilver500

Are the 129 cases the same for the 5L cars all the way through? Or did they change at some point, it should be possible if they are the same to find a ASR diff relatively easily for a 129 but I don't know if the mounting is the same. I know a fellow with a QDF5V and am going to check fitment this weekend on my 2.82 500E diff I hope.

whipplem104

I am pretty sure that all the large differential cases are roughly the same. I have found that most update to the same part numbers. The abs and asr ones are different of course. One of the cases I am going to try is the 500e asr unit. I have the abs version for my car and the epc shows that it should probably fit about any 210mm unit with the right gear ratios to when the 220# case replaced it.

AMGDave

That would be awesome... please specify the year/model of the donor housings, and a casting number if available.



The 5V and 7V are not interchangeable. See the attached PDF files, note L1 and L3 dimensions. The 7V is a full 33mm wider and absolutely will not fit in an early R129 / 500E diff housing. Perhaps it may fit a late R129 housing, which does not have the bores for ASR or ABS sensors (the sensors were relocated to the rear wheels, instead of on the diff). Also, even for a 5V in a 500E housing, you have to check fitment with the ring gear mounted. It will slip right in there with no ring gear installed - the problem is that with the gear bolted up, it won't slip into the housing.

AMGDave

No, the R129 5.0L differentials are not all the same:

The 1990-1992 500SL have the same diff as the 500E (although some are ABS, since ASR was optional in those years).

From 1993-1998 the 500SL/SL500 used a W140 housing with 1.4L fluid capacity, aka "reinforced" 210mm diff - totally different and none of the parts interchange.

From 1999-2002 it's yet another housing (W220) with 1.6L fluid capacity; again, nothing interchanges with the earlier diffs.

All this info is in my "differentials" spreadsheet.

whipplem104

What I am suggesting is that the 220 case can be bolted in the w124 not the qdf7v in the 129 housing. I bolted my 129 housing into a clk55. You would have to swap axles also. As far as the speed sensors for the asr cars, I would have to count the pulses but you can also swap the wheel flanges. You could also make rotor wheels fairly simple for the asr.

AMGDave

I don't think the 220 case has ASR sensors, do they? If not, another option would be the 129 ABS housing, which I think may work with the QDF5V, and it would probably require less part swapping. I'm hoping the speed signal can be generated by swapping the late-style rear wheel carriers with the speed sensors, although a signal conversion box might be needed to generate the proper speed signal.

John Bicht

AMGDave, thanks enormously for all your efforts with this information. Really, truly. This will fix the only real crappy part of the 400E, and has re-started my love affair with it.

I thought your differentials .pdf was only one page, so missed a lot until yesterday. Apologies. Trying to do too much in too little time.

I finally fired up the CD-ROM manuals and you were - naturally - correct about all the information in there. I had previously looked up bunches of other stuff, and frequently ran into dead ends, so had lost faith in them.

Bought the diff from David Henby, thanks again.

Ordered the spool through an independent service guy we use.

And thanks to all who have taken time to be helpful.

AMGDave

Excellent! Let us know how it works out...

John Bicht

AMGDave, I think a slight error in your speeds chart on the last page of your differential .pdf. You list a 225/55-16 tire as having a 77.6 circumference when my information calls it 80.74, for a 25.7 diameter tire.

AMGDave

John,

It's not really a typo, but I should add some text to explain the data. While the mathematical calculations indicate the circumference should be 80.74" for a tire of 25.7" diameter, that would only apply if the tire was a perfect circle. But the contact patch is flat, making the circle have a flat spot (oblate spheriod?). Tire mfr's will usually spec the actual circumference as "rolling circumference", and/or specify the number of revolutions per mile, which indicate the same data point. In my spreadsheet, the 77.6 number was from a tire spec sheet, but unfortunately I didn't note which specific brand/model it was.

I did a random sample on Tire Rack to see what variations I could find for tire size 225-55-16 and after looking at a couple dozen, here are the high & lows that I found:

25.7" diameter, 802 revs per mile, 79.00 rolling circumference (Pirelli P6000)
25.7" diameter, 822 revs per mile, 77.08 rolling circumference (Dunlop Direzza)

Most of the tires in that size tend to be on the larger side of that range though (closer to the 802-805 RPM, 78-79" circumference) so my sample number if 77.6 is probably a bit low. However, keep in mind that as tires wear the circumference will decrease and revs per mile will increase, making that 77.6 number sort of a "real world" estimate if the tires were partially worn.

But either way, you'd never find a tire that size with a rolling circumference of 80.74... I will try to edit the file and use a more realistic example, probably around 78.50" or so, and I'll specify the tire brand/model used to obtain that data. That will bump the numbers roughly 1%, affecting top speed data by 1-2mph.

Thanks for the heads-up, btw!

John Bicht

My notice was drawn by the 1" quoted difference between the 195/65-15 and the 225/55-16. The 78.5 circ. of the narrower tire looks to be computed from the 25" typical quoted diameter, while the 225/55 is, as you say, more real possible data.

All sorts of things will affect the real rolling radius, including inflation pressure.

A couple questions. Is the Bentley Owner's Bible any good for an old mechanic, or is it the simplistic stuff some say it is.

Where can I find the part numbers for the 500E suspension links?

Back in 1985/9 I had a new 190E (all whited out no less), that I put a lot of attention into, Sachs suspension kit, tires, very carefully developed the alignment (I had spent a lot of time test driving formula cars so had particular feel that I wanted) and I think a link or two on the rear suspension from the 190E-16 (?). This car handled fabulously. Do you think it is possible to achieve this on a 400E/500E? Oh, and what shocks? I had put an NOS Sachs kit on this 400E, and the shocks were not of the same caliber as those I put on the 190. I am very tempted by the Koni adjustable sport stuff.

Quicksilver500

Hertzian contact!

Its why I don't think cops should be able to use their radar while moving, how do you know they keep those tires at the proper inflation to insure an accurate speedo reading?!?! :p

whipplem104

Ok, so I got my quaife in today finally. I installed the bearings and it slipped right in as I had thought. I will get the asr case and try this next. Hopefully next week.

whipplem104

So I tried the asr case from a 500e with the 2.82 ratio. Fits no problem.
I then swapped it into a 3.06 ratio abs case and the lash will have to be set up
a little and the pre load.
I noticed the asr case is just wider than the abs case to fit the sensors. This is all from the bearing races out towards the flanges. Inside the case is the same as the abs one.
Let me know if anyone is interested in this. I can start putting together a group buy. I will check on the price break. I found that this carrier should fit early w210 e55 and w140 and w129 cars also. A lot more than can be listed.

rivcal4life

I am interested. So an LSD built to fit my 500e with ASR? What would be the final ratio? 2.82 ir 3.06?

whipplem104

It should fit from 2.47 to the 3.06 ratios. The 400e with 2.24 will not work. I am looking into a shim for running the 3.27 gears and also trying some other options out.

AMGDave

2.65, 2.82, and 3.06 only. I think a shim might work for 3.2x ratios.

The QDF5V won't work with 2.47 or 2.24 ratios. You can use factory clutch-type LSD's for those ratios if required.

AMGDave

The Bentley book is a nice coffee table piece, but generally useless for any serious maintenance or repair. It also has a number of technicall errors. You need the factory service manuals.



The EPC (same thing the dealer uses). Available free online from MB:
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/



Well, yes and no. The main difference is size & weight, and possibly weight distribution. You can probably get a 400E/500E close, but not the same. The rear suspensions links are basically all the same between these chassis, btw. They are shown here.


Depends what you're looking for. I have KONI sports (yellows) on my '87 and while the handling is excellent, the ride is quite stiff. Also, the adjustability is limited to rebound. If you have spent time in real race cars, you may want adjustable compression as well (or, separate adjustments for both high & low speed damping, which is unheard of on MB suspension). I've just seen photos of a custom KONI damper but know nothing besides what you see in this picture.


BTW, the damping rates of Specials (reds) vs. Sports (yellows) are shown in this graph. If you want to get into details on suspension mods though, I'd start a new thread and post a link here, that way we can keep on the LSD topic for this thread

ps2cho

As Dave said, the book has a wealth of general information on the model and engine, but repair-wise, it only covers basic fluid replacement and brakes for the most part. Nothing much more than that. I think it is still worth the purchase as sometimes it is nice to reference more than one source on jobs and the pictures are pretty good.

whipplem104

Here are some shots of the different cases and the lsd in the abs case and I slide the lsd in and out the same as the stock open differential. You can see that once the side covers with the races are move out that it just slides in and out. The quaife lsd slides in and out just the same.

oz 300te

Hi, I'm interested in putting LSD in my 300te.

Will the Quaife QDF5V fit in the 185mm diffs?

Thanks.

whipplem104

No the only option for the 185 diff is the 190 lsd or swap an asd diff.
You could also get the 210mm diff and half axles and driveshaft from a parts car and swap them in.

oz 300te

OK, thankyou.