winged scot

I've been shopping around for a set of spring's to lower and improve the cornering ability of my `87 300E and everytime, the H & R name is mentioned. Who can give me some first-hand information purtaining to the ride quality, any increase as far as weight-capacity (in the back-seat and boot) and,cornering with these spring's? This car is a weekend-driver but still has to make the odd trip to the airport to pick-up family and their case's. The tyre size is 205/45/17.

RHW

I am thinking of dropping my Cabriolet next week, have been thinking of going straight Sportline components. Welcome Winged Scot, I think if you search you will find endless discussion, with HR being real popular.

winged scot

Thank's for the welcome RHW. I'll go have another look at the list of W124 thread's as I may have missed one covering these spring's. As you'd stated and I've encountered, these pring's appear to be quite popular.

Cheers mate

STLe320

I'm waiting to get them installed middle of next week. It should be all it's made out to be...

Bigpete123

I have H&R's.

They definitely improve cornering. The ride is more stiff, but it still won't cause you to loose your teeth over an average bump. I'd say it's about the best compromise between comfort, handling, and looks that you can ask for.

If you're only interested in improved cornering, the best bang for your buck is upgrading to heavier duty sway bars both front and rear (from a 500e for example).

Don't expect an increase in weight capacity at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I have a coupe, so I don't load up the back of my car with people very often... and when I do, it's not a problem. But the rear of the car definitely sags.

Common options are (listed in order of the drop severity, starting with the most moderate):

1. Sportline setup (stock suspension from a sportline model, probably the most expensive route because there are lots of components involved. This is the one RHW is referring to)

2. Eibach (the most moderate spring-only drop that I know of, probably more comfortable that the other springs below)

3. Vogtland (some of the guys on here are very happy with these springs. They will drop your car more than the H&R's and are probably a bit stiffer)

4. Intrax (the only guy on the forum I know of who has these is ZorroAMG- they drop is probably comparable to Vogtland)

There may be others, but these are the most common.

jrmd01

Big Pete;

2 questions.

1. I thought HR lowered the cars more than Vot?
2. How's your camber with the H&R?

Bigpete123

I have never seen a w124 on vogtlands in person, so I'm just going from what I've read. Most say that vogtlands lower the car more.

The drop is definitely enough to require camber adjustments in the rear (i.e. you need to get adjustable camber arms). The front has enough adjustability from the factory that they should be able to get it pretty close.

I went through my first set of tires fairly quickly. I guess if you rotate your tires fairly often you should be fine.

V9.

I have H&R springs with Bilstein sport shocks. It is an absolutely fantastic combination. I have had several cars with H&R springs and currently have a BMW M3 equipped with H&R bilstein as well. The spring rate for the Mercedes is just right in my opinion...its not overly harsh but very well controlled. This combined with a 17" wheel allows for much more aggressive driving in the E class and better stability at high speed. The M3 H and R spring is much stiffer in comparison and appropriately so as it is a more sport oriented car. As for increase in camber its not been an issue for me. Any lowered german car will have increased negative camber. So what. This geometry is one of the reasons german cars handle so well. If you are bothered about increased tire wear you can get the camber correcting mounts but its not mandatory in my opinion. I dont have any clearance or rubbing issues whatsoever with 17" rims even under full compression.

winged scot

You lot have been most helpful....thank you. Going off everything I've heard at this point, H & R's are topping the chart's full-stop. My biggest concern now would have to be the potential for "sagging", aka loss of weight capacity at the rear. The fact that a majority of the boot is located well behind the rear tyre's has had me a bit concerned. Any more insite/opinion's on the rear suspension "sagging"?

Cheers,
ws

V9.

With a good quality shock ie bilstein you shouldnt have any sagging issues with HR springs.

STLe320

You can also change your spring pads to slightly adjust the heights from the rear. It won't be that much of a change, but possibly enough to get rid of the sagging look. Some people don't even use pads (which isn't necessarily a good thing). You can go from bump 1 to bump 4 I believe. Here are mine so you know what I'm talking about.

winged scot

Thank you for the picture's of your spring's showing the bump-pad's STLe320.
If my information is correct, there are four different bump-size's for the front and three size's for the rear!? My original plan was to install the spring's and then determine which bump-pad's (if any) I would need to change. Afterward, I was planning to install new Bilstein's all the way around.

STLe320

That would be a pretty good way to go about it. Are you going Sports or HD?

winged scot

Thank you for your input V9. That just happen's to be the very combination I had originally planned to use. I wanted to first establish which spring's (with help from you lot it look's like H & R's by a landslide). Once I had installed the spring's and took the car out for a test-drive, I was going to address the shock's/strut's (primarily Bilstein's). So you do not feel I'll be running into any "sagging-issue" with this combination?

winged scot

To be honest, Im not really sure at this point STLe320. I have a habit of taking turn's rather quickly (liftime F1 freak) but would still like to have the ability to carry people and case's when the need arise's. Any idea's?

winged scot

Thank's for your insight Bigpete123. As I had mentioned before, a "sagging" rear is what I am most certainly concerned about.

Cheers,
ws

ksing44

That isn’t a bad plan, except it is no picnic to go back under the car to swap spring pads. You may also need 2 alignments (more money), if you drive for a while with each set-up. Additionally, the new shocks may also affect the ride height, so it might be good to try to take a shot at doing everything at one time. It might be worth asking around, just as you have been doing, to try to determine what pads others used to get a nice drop with the same H&R springs and same model/year/options W124. I think I remember reading that the H&R springs tend to drop the front more than the rear and that some guys use 2-bump front and 1-bump rear to get a symmetrical drop. Please ask around, however, since my memory may be off.

I used Eibach ProKit springs, so this doesn’t help you, but I ended up with 1-bump front and 3-bump rear pads. The rear dropped much more than the front with the Eibach springs installed on my car. For me, 2-bump may have also been OK in the rear. With all 1-bump pads, which is what I tried first, my car sagged badly in the rear and the camber was –3. / \ That was too much for me.

I just took a trip with my car fully loaded. I had 2 bikes on a bike rack on my rear hitch, 4 passengers, and a completely full trunk. It was fine with Eibach springs and Bilstein HD shocks. I scraped my muffler a couple of times on some bad bumps driving on some wild roads in New York City, but it was really fine. I’m sure you will be fine with the H&R springs and Bilstein Sport shocks.

winged scot

Thank's for the info ksing 44. I was prepared to invest in the additional alignment(s) if it meant I were reach my intended goal. So you think the Bilstein Sport shock's would work fine for me as opposed to the H.D.'s?

Bigpete123

There are some guys on here who believe you should run HD's with a lower suspension (even though bilstein tells you to use sports). I personally went with sports and have had no problem whatsoever.

Either one will work fine, but logic tells me to follow manufacturer's instructions ( to RBYCC)

If you want my recommendation, just have the springs and shocks installed at the same time. Drive around on them for a month and let your suspension settle, then decide whether you want to go through the hassle and expense of swapping out spring pads.

In terms of sagging, I wouldn't worry so much about it. If you load people up in the car and the rear of the car is lower, it won't cause any problems and it shouldn't rub unless your rims/tires are too aggressive. I assume you won't drive around with tons of stuff in your trunk and people in the back most of the time.

winged scot

You are correct in your assumption Bigpete123. For the most part it would be just myself and my missus using the car 99.9/10's of the time mate. I just don't want to overlook that ever crutial 1/10th.

V9.

I agree with everyone's comments. I doubt you will have issues with sagging. Nothing that is made in germany will every sag

here's a pic of my car with hr springs and stock spring pads. I never changed them. I dont know what "bump" they are. I figured whatever MB put in there the first time had to be right and I didnt want to alter the "stance" or rake of the car. Full utility of the car remains with 5 passengers and luggage no problems.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...2&d=1216350735

winged scot

That is the exact stance I am looking for mate!

ksing44

Get Sports and don't look bac. As Bigpete123 wrote, Sports are recommended for lowering springs by the manufacturer. The HD worked fine for me, although one has started to leak, but I have always questioned my decision to get the HD. I listened to a tech on the phone that told me the Sports were too stiff for daily driving. It seems he was totally wrong, since the HD are said to be virtually the same valving but with different length than the Sports. I have been pleased to hear arguments on these forums to say I did fine to get the HD, but the Sports are recommended by Bilstein and I am planning to get them sometime soon.

H&R with Bilstein Sports has to be the most common and most recommended set-up for our cars and many others. It is a great choice unless you are looking to go even lower as some on this forum prefer.

winged scot

ksing44, I am officially taking your advice and going with the Bilstein Sport's. BTW, your car is a beauty!
Cheers,
ws

ATL_S124

so what I gather from this is that everyone loves H & R springs, but I am curious to know if anyone has tried changing springs and keeping original shocks... (wagon and self-leveling in the rear make shocks pricey)... "Buelller, Bueller, anyone, anyone?"