Kombi to Sportline conversion -help needed
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
Kombi to Sportline conversion -help needed
Just found this forum a few days ago and it's great. I've been reading all the info and it have been a lot of help. Many thanks to all.
I have a 3 year old boy and my 95 E320 Coupe just wasn't big enough so I got the next closest option, a 95 E320 Kombi and love although I'd love to get the Sportline suspension on it as my 92 190 Sportline drives much nicer than my 95 Coupe which is stock except for HD Bilstein struts.
The front struts and rear accumulators need to be replaced so this seems like the right time to do it. I've also located some 17" AMG monoblocks with 225-45 Michelin Pilot Sports for a good price, will they fit ok?
I have access to MB factory parts at cost so I was thinking of using factory Sportline struts, springs, and swaybars. I see most of you are using non factory springs, it this because of cost or performance or both?
I have the E Class Bible and it talks about the Sportline cars using a different "steering pitman arm" as lowering the car alters the steering geometry but I haven't found anyone mentioning this change. Is this necessary?
I also been told to just do the front Sportline conversion and leave the rear alone. Thoughts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
PS: I'll get some pics up later today...
I have a 3 year old boy and my 95 E320 Coupe just wasn't big enough so I got the next closest option, a 95 E320 Kombi and love although I'd love to get the Sportline suspension on it as my 92 190 Sportline drives much nicer than my 95 Coupe which is stock except for HD Bilstein struts.
The front struts and rear accumulators need to be replaced so this seems like the right time to do it. I've also located some 17" AMG monoblocks with 225-45 Michelin Pilot Sports for a good price, will they fit ok?
I have access to MB factory parts at cost so I was thinking of using factory Sportline struts, springs, and swaybars. I see most of you are using non factory springs, it this because of cost or performance or both?
I have the E Class Bible and it talks about the Sportline cars using a different "steering pitman arm" as lowering the car alters the steering geometry but I haven't found anyone mentioning this change. Is this necessary?
I also been told to just do the front Sportline conversion and leave the rear alone. Thoughts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
PS: I'll get some pics up later today...
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Atlanta, GA
'95 Smoke Silver S124
welcome! I will comment on the only question you posed that I know the answer to: the monoblocks with those tires should fit fine. Im running 225/40 up front and 245/45 in the rear; the front fit no adjustments needed, the rears i had to roll my fenders to fit but it worked great! (and i know the rear rubbers are too tall, but it actually makes my speedo read bang on instead of telling me im going 5 mph faster than i actually am...)
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
Thanks. I've got the same smoked wagon!
How hard was it and/or how much was it to roll to back fenders?
How hard was it and/or how much was it to roll to back fenders?
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
Welcome....make sure to join the fun on this wagon thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w124/201013-wagon-chat-advice-pics-kick-can-whatever.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w124/201013-wagon-chat-advice-pics-kick-can-whatever.html
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
Well, this sounds familiar...
94 Kombi.
Front/Rear Sportline Springs w #1 Pads
Front/Rear 500E Swaybars
Front Sportline Struts
Rear Stock Hydros
17x7.5 et37 w 225/45/17s
I can't be any happier with the way it drives, handles, and looks.
94 Kombi.
Front/Rear Sportline Springs w #1 Pads
Front/Rear 500E Swaybars
Front Sportline Struts
Rear Stock Hydros
17x7.5 et37 w 225/45/17s
I can't be any happier with the way it drives, handles, and looks.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
Thanks for all the info. It seems I'm on track. Any tire rubbing? Did you have to roll the rear fenders?
And yeah, your wagon looks great. What color is yours? It seems like it is the reverse of mine which is like ATL_S124's. The wheel color is a really classy touch.
And yeah, your wagon looks great. What color is yours? It seems like it is the reverse of mine which is like ATL_S124's. The wheel color is a really classy touch.
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
No tire rubbing whatsoever.
I would do the sways and accumlators at the same time, since they are right next to each other and would save you from dropping the subframe more than once.
FWIW, with this setup, my alignment is perfectly in sportline specs without any custom cambers plates, etc.
I'm not so sure about what you note with the pitman arm. It may be applied to the sportline steering box which is different than non-sportline, but that's something beyond what I thought was necessary to upgrade.
The kombi is a 172/174 - Anthracite/Saffron.
I would do the sways and accumlators at the same time, since they are right next to each other and would save you from dropping the subframe more than once.
FWIW, with this setup, my alignment is perfectly in sportline specs without any custom cambers plates, etc.
I'm not so sure about what you note with the pitman arm. It may be applied to the sportline steering box which is different than non-sportline, but that's something beyond what I thought was necessary to upgrade.
The kombi is a 172/174 - Anthracite/Saffron.
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,734
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
No tire rubbing whatsoever.
I would do the sways and accumlators at the same time, since they are right next to each other and would save you from dropping the subframe more than once.
FWIW, with this setup, my alignment is perfectly in sportline specs without any custom cambers plates, etc.
I'm not so sure about what you note with the pitman arm. It may be applied to the sportline steering box which is different than non-sportline, but that's something beyond what I thought was necessary to upgrade.
The kombi is a 172/174 - Anthracite/Saffron.
I would do the sways and accumlators at the same time, since they are right next to each other and would save you from dropping the subframe more than once.
FWIW, with this setup, my alignment is perfectly in sportline specs without any custom cambers plates, etc.
I'm not so sure about what you note with the pitman arm. It may be applied to the sportline steering box which is different than non-sportline, but that's something beyond what I thought was necessary to upgrade.
The kombi is a 172/174 - Anthracite/Saffron.
Great news on the alignment!
Any thing else I should do while I'm in there?
Member
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From: Atlanta, GA
'95 Smoke Silver S124
Three replies at once!
... so i heated the other side, but just warmed it, dont wanna burn the paint! honestly if you are just doing 225 in the rear you shouldnt need to do it, but if you want to anyway, just get a heat gun and a plastic or rubber mallet... thats how i prepped mine and i coulda just done that for the whole thing (more time and elbow grease though, but easier than finding a roller, they are rather rare)... have fun! 
loco Brazilians for the... interesting if ill-executed ideas-win
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Posts: 94
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
Make sure you buy the correct bushings for the swaybar. No need to buy new clamps, th eold ones are the same size, just the bore changes.
Since you have to drop the subframe, it's a good time to check your hydro mounts, and if you want to check and replace the subframe bushings. I would anyway, not sure how many miles yours has, but when I replaced mine with sportline bushings, the sotck OE ones looked pretty beat up, and mine only had just over 70K miles on them.
You can use your old links if the bushings on those are OK. If not, lmk, I have three sets of these and can let you have one for the kombi cause.
Edit: Oh yeah, btw, the 500E rear sway will hit your SLS mount in the rear. Not too bad at all, tho. You'll see it when you are down there. Since the rear 500E sway has a bend to it through the middle span and the OE kombi one doesn't, it *barely* hits the SLS mount. You can easily just bend the very edge of it out of the way, or better yet, like I did, grind it down a *tad*. It only misses clearance by less than 1/8 of an inch...
Since you have to drop the subframe, it's a good time to check your hydro mounts, and if you want to check and replace the subframe bushings. I would anyway, not sure how many miles yours has, but when I replaced mine with sportline bushings, the sotck OE ones looked pretty beat up, and mine only had just over 70K miles on them.
You can use your old links if the bushings on those are OK. If not, lmk, I have three sets of these and can let you have one for the kombi cause.
Edit: Oh yeah, btw, the 500E rear sway will hit your SLS mount in the rear. Not too bad at all, tho. You'll see it when you are down there. Since the rear 500E sway has a bend to it through the middle span and the OE kombi one doesn't, it *barely* hits the SLS mount. You can easily just bend the very edge of it out of the way, or better yet, like I did, grind it down a *tad*. It only misses clearance by less than 1/8 of an inch...
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
well for me it was free and easy; as usual there is a catch though... i part-time at a dealership so i have access to a roller and knowledge. The tool was more helpful than the knowledge though, the guy i borrowed it from said not to worry about using a heat gun, but that was a mistake... cracked a lil of the paint ... so i heated the other side, but just warmed it, dont wanna burn the paint! honestly if you are just doing 225 in the rear you shouldnt need to do it, but if you want to anyway, just get a heat gun and a plastic or rubber mallet... thats how i prepped mine and i coulda just done that for the whole thing (more time and elbow grease though, but easier than finding a roller, they are rather rare)... have fun!
nice ride!!! dont think ive seen you around Atlanta (and I wouldve remembered a Wagon that clean!), come through downtown much?
the guy who i borrowed the fender roller from chopped the springs on his 124 sedan and it looks mean as hell but i think the setup is too squishy and he seems to rub... a lot. loco Brazilians for the... interesting if ill-executed ideas-win
... so i heated the other side, but just warmed it, dont wanna burn the paint! honestly if you are just doing 225 in the rear you shouldnt need to do it, but if you want to anyway, just get a heat gun and a plastic or rubber mallet... thats how i prepped mine and i coulda just done that for the whole thing (more time and elbow grease though, but easier than finding a roller, they are rather rare)... have fun! nice ride!!! dont think ive seen you around Atlanta (and I wouldve remembered a Wagon that clean!), come through downtown much?
the guy who i borrowed the fender roller from chopped the springs on his 124 sedan and it looks mean as hell but i think the setup is too squishy and he seems to rub... a lot.
loco Brazilians for the... interesting if ill-executed ideas-winWhat exactly are you using the mallet for?
I've heard that with a roller, but I don't understand why? Paint is rigid when dry and any bending is applying stress to the paint. At the very least, as another mb enthusiast tells me, let the car sit in the sun all day and this will alleviate the stress. It's better to be safe than sorry on paint, it will cost you a lot more in the long run if it starts to chip and crack...
Funny thing is that I live downtown. This kombi has been terrorizing downtown Atlanta and most ITP neighborhoods for a couple of years now...along with the 500E
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
Make sure you buy the correct bushings for the swaybar. No need to buy new clamps, th eold ones are the same size, just the bore changes.
Since you have to drop the subframe, it's a good time to check your hydro mounts, and if you want to check and replace the subframe bushings. I would anyway, not sure how many miles yours has, but when I replaced mine with sportline bushings, the sotck OE ones looked pretty beat up, and mine only had just over 70K miles on them.
You can use your old links if the bushings on those are OK. If not, lmk, I have three sets of these and can let you have one for the kombi cause.
Edit: Oh yeah, btw, the 500E rear sway will hit your SLS mount in the rear. Not too bad at all, tho. You'll see it when you are down there. Since the rear 500E sway has a bend to it through the middle span and the OE kombi one doesn't, it *barely* hits the SLS mount. You can easily just bend the very edge of it out of the way, or better yet, like I did, grind it down a *tad*. It only misses clearance by less than 1/8 of an inch...
Since you have to drop the subframe, it's a good time to check your hydro mounts, and if you want to check and replace the subframe bushings. I would anyway, not sure how many miles yours has, but when I replaced mine with sportline bushings, the sotck OE ones looked pretty beat up, and mine only had just over 70K miles on them.
You can use your old links if the bushings on those are OK. If not, lmk, I have three sets of these and can let you have one for the kombi cause.
Edit: Oh yeah, btw, the 500E rear sway will hit your SLS mount in the rear. Not too bad at all, tho. You'll see it when you are down there. Since the rear 500E sway has a bend to it through the middle span and the OE kombi one doesn't, it *barely* hits the SLS mount. You can easily just bend the very edge of it out of the way, or better yet, like I did, grind it down a *tad*. It only misses clearance by less than 1/8 of an inch...
I have 132k on mine. For the most part it was really well maintained as the previous owner was the service manager for a MB dealership and had everything done except the suspension problems. I guess he thought the Kombis just shouldn't handle like the sedans. At least the engine and transmission are silky smooth though.
Did you do all the suspension mods at once? I was curious as to how much effect the sway bars have compared to stock.
I'll pick up some sportline sub-frame bushings.
BTW; Anyone looking for a 95 E320 Coupe? Black/Cream 167k and very well maintained. I only have room for two cars and hate to leave it on the street.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
I started with the struts and springs first. It road ok, but still was a little loose. Then the front sway bar and the handling got dramatically better! I wanted to see what kind of movement I had from the rear (over/under-steer) before I decided on the rears. After driving a while with just fronts replaced, I went with the 500E rear recently and the car drives like a dream! I did the bushings as I did the rear sways.
Also consider the sportline bushings for the fron LCA. I just bought the whole sportline LCA instead of the bushings only. Cost was only a tad bit more and for me with a shadetree shop, it was *much* easier to just replace the LCA than it would have been to remove the old busings and press the new ones in. You'll see what I mean when you see the price for the whole LCA as opposed to the price of the bushings + the labor to have them replaced.
Also consider the sportline bushings for the fron LCA. I just bought the whole sportline LCA instead of the bushings only. Cost was only a tad bit more and for me with a shadetree shop, it was *much* easier to just replace the LCA than it would have been to remove the old busings and press the new ones in. You'll see what I mean when you see the price for the whole LCA as opposed to the price of the bushings + the labor to have them replaced.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
I started with the struts and springs first. It road ok, but still was a little loose. Then the front sway bar and the handling got dramatically better! I wanted to see what kind of movement I had from the rear (over/under-steer) before I decided on the rears. After driving a while with just fronts replaced, I went with the 500E rear recently and the car drives like a dream! I did the bushings as I did the rear sways.
Also consider the sportline bushings for the fron LCA. I just bought the whole sportline LCA instead of the bushings only. Cost was only a tad bit more and for me with a shadetree shop, it was *much* easier to just replace the LCA than it would have been to remove the old busings and press the new ones in. You'll see what I mean when you see the price for the whole LCA as opposed to the price of the bushings + the labor to have them replaced.
Also consider the sportline bushings for the fron LCA. I just bought the whole sportline LCA instead of the bushings only. Cost was only a tad bit more and for me with a shadetree shop, it was *much* easier to just replace the LCA than it would have been to remove the old busings and press the new ones in. You'll see what I mean when you see the price for the whole LCA as opposed to the price of the bushings + the labor to have them replaced.
Any idea if a 235 45 17 would fit with no mods? There are some AMG Monos in town with pretty new Michelin PS on them. I'm concerned they will be just a hair too big and the ET is only 30. Thoughts???
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
I wouldn't be surpised if you hit the caliper. With my EVO's I'm very close, but clear. I'd have to say that I'm no more than 5mm or less away from the caliper. 235/45/17 would be ok on a et37 or 35. Not sure about 30s.
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1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E
Robert, you ever do the 500 suspension on that thing? I know there was talk about it. Still getting that crash through on the front end?
I really don't think ET 30 will fit, I think stock is ET32 and its right ontop of the calipers...But H&R makes hub centric spacers for benzos!
ATL_S124 is my replacement at the dealer FYI
-Mike
I really don't think ET 30 will fit, I think stock is ET32 and its right ontop of the calipers...But H&R makes hub centric spacers for benzos!
ATL_S124 is my replacement at the dealer FYI
-Mike
Last edited by Quicksilver500; Aug 23, 2008 at 12:33 AM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
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From: Atlanta, GA
93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
Robert, you ever do the 500 suspension on that thing? I know there was talk about it. Still getting that crash through on the front end?
I really don't think ET 30 will fit, I think stock is ET32 and its right ontop of the calipers...But H&R makes hub centric spacers for benzos!
ATL_S124 is my replacement at the dealer FYI
-Mike
I really don't think ET 30 will fit, I think stock is ET32 and its right ontop of the calipers...But H&R makes hub centric spacers for benzos!
ATL_S124 is my replacement at the dealer FYI
-Mike
That's probably the *only* thing I would upgrade to if I had to...500E struts up front because they have the built-in rebound spring. The sportline springs are perfect, but when running across a washboard type scenario on roads you can really feel the difference between the two springs (note that I have a 500 as well). Otherwise the sportline springs (with the 500E sways) are a very nice feel and would put it up to any sports sedan out there in handling and road feel (note I said *sedan*..hehe)
The front crash was coming mostly from the swaybars. When I put the front LCAs in and then readjusted the front sway, I apparently didn't mount it right and it was loose on one end. It was being tucked under the tranny oil line so I had to re-route that over and under th bar. Note that this is not absolutely necessary, but more of a neurotic thing for me and a cleaner look under the belly.
Good to see ATL mb peeps on here, kombi owners at that!
Mike, what did you end up getting? The 944?
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1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E
Nope, that 95' coupe........<sigh> probably better in the long run cuz now I can put a C36 motor in it. Thats part of the sportline conversion right?
Anyway back to topic I guess. There are many posts on sportline for sedans, the wagons are a little different but check out the sedan threads. Supposidly, the LCA bushings, subframe, and sway bar bushings are different, stiffer rubber or something. But I won't worry about that. You can look up sway bar upgrades too. I heard the 400E limo bar front and the 500E rear are the best. The 400E limo is a little thicker if I remember right. If the sport springs work on Rob's wagon then it should be fine. I was always worried they wouldn't jive with the SLS. HR does make wagon springs FYI, but that maybe too much.
To sum up, there are lots of combinations and options, sneek a peak at these pdf's they might help. You might want to think about 500E brakes at some point, I think Robert's has E420 which is about as good (same rear as 500E).
Here are some pdfs I got off of a friends site, that last one is going to be the best I think, but take a look at them they will help.
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...ring_specs.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...4_swaybars.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...suspension.txt
Anyway back to topic I guess. There are many posts on sportline for sedans, the wagons are a little different but check out the sedan threads. Supposidly, the LCA bushings, subframe, and sway bar bushings are different, stiffer rubber or something. But I won't worry about that. You can look up sway bar upgrades too. I heard the 400E limo bar front and the 500E rear are the best. The 400E limo is a little thicker if I remember right. If the sport springs work on Rob's wagon then it should be fine. I was always worried they wouldn't jive with the SLS. HR does make wagon springs FYI, but that maybe too much.
To sum up, there are lots of combinations and options, sneek a peak at these pdf's they might help. You might want to think about 500E brakes at some point, I think Robert's has E420 which is about as good (same rear as 500E).
Here are some pdfs I got off of a friends site, that last one is going to be the best I think, but take a look at them they will help.
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...ring_specs.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...4_swaybars.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...suspension.txt
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
That's probably the *only* thing I would upgrade to if I had to...500E struts up front because they have the built-in rebound spring. The sportline springs are perfect, but when running across a washboard type scenario on roads you can really feel the difference between the two springs (note that I have a 500 as well). Otherwise the sportline springs (with the 500E sways) are a very nice feel and would put it up to any sports sedan out there in handling and road feel (note I said *sedan*..hehe)
Hehe, I like to hear that. I can't wait to get everything installed. I ordered parts from MB on Friday but they are trying to locate the rear springs.... They said they may need to come from Germany....Same for the 400 Limo front sway bar.
Hehe, I like to hear that. I can't wait to get everything installed. I ordered parts from MB on Friday but they are trying to locate the rear springs.... They said they may need to come from Germany....Same for the 400 Limo front sway bar.
I'd love to do the brakes at some point but this is adding up real quick and I need to sadly sell my 95 E320 Coupe to fund this. Note the new Kombi in the reflection in pic #2.
Last edited by spinlps; Aug 23, 2008 at 12:04 PM. Reason: forgot sentence
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From: Atlanta, GA
'95 Smoke Silver S124
What exactly are you using the mallet for?
I've heard that with a roller, but I don't understand why? Paint is rigid when dry and any bending is applying stress to the paint. At the very least, as another mb enthusiast tells me, let the car sit in the sun all day and this will alleviate the stress. It's better to be safe than sorry on paint, it will cost you a lot more in the long run if it starts to chip and crack...
Funny thing is that I live downtown. This kombi has been terrorizing downtown Atlanta and most ITP neighborhoods for a couple of years now...along with the 500E
I've heard that with a roller, but I don't understand why? Paint is rigid when dry and any bending is applying stress to the paint. At the very least, as another mb enthusiast tells me, let the car sit in the sun all day and this will alleviate the stress. It's better to be safe than sorry on paint, it will cost you a lot more in the long run if it starts to chip and crack...
Funny thing is that I live downtown. This kombi has been terrorizing downtown Atlanta and most ITP neighborhoods for a couple of years now...along with the 500E
At some point if i ever get another camera i will take pics of what i am talking about and it will make much more sense... i hope! weird, cant believe ive never seen the Kombi... or the Five-Hun for that matter! ...and here I was thinking Mike's was the only Fun machine around
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Sacramento
16 E350 wagon, 94 AMG, sold -95 E320 Sportline wagon & 94 E420 & 95 E320 coupe & 92 190 16v
Wow! I posted pics and 4 hours later the Coupe is sold. Love this forum!
So the Sportline Kombi conversion is on the way.
So the Sportline Kombi conversion is on the way.
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 80
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From: Atlanta, GA
'95 Smoke Silver S124
Try to take pics of your labor processes please, those of us who have no money to do these fun things would like to live vicariously through you 
