lynx

On my '94 E320 sedan the ASR light keeps going on and off while driving. If I restart the car it goes away. When it does go on the car looses power. Any ideas what that might be?

Chinny4290

When your car loses power, that's your car going into limp mode home.

Alone that means your ASR is malfunctioning, obviously

And the unfortunate thing about ASR on these cars is that chasing down the problem is like finding a needle in a haystack, there's no finite way of determining the problem.

Best bet is to get your codes read and see if anything shows up there because it can be a modicum of things.

Speed sensors, throttle body, idle control, wheel sensors, even the entire ECU.

What's the condition of your wiring harness as that's the most likely source of the problem if it's original.

While ASR is very nice to have in the inclement of bad weather, it only is nice when it works.

Sorry to hear about the problem, but anything ASR related isn't usually very cheap.

GL

White_Knuckles

Uh, that could bad news brother. ASR is tied into the throttle actuator assembly. Normally, when a slip condition is detected the system takes over throttle control. Cruise-control is also actuator based.

I've read where if the actuator starts failing, it trips intermittent ASR and sometimes "check engine" lamps. The unit and its wiring are suspect. The fixes are spendy.

The loss of power is a built-in "limp-it-home" mode that controls engine management and feels way-scary. Some discuss a temporary work-around adding a jumper in the diag. module essentially bypassing ASR. The jumper prevents limp mode but the failing actuator continues to flash the ASR lamp and create other unpleasant issues.

>> Chinny, we both hit this at the same time, you're on it too.<<

lynx

Thank you for your reply, guys. Couple more things for me to clear:
-There's no way to turn off the ASR? Is this correct?
-Harness? I didn't change anything then I'm assuming it is original. The question is which electrical harness and where it is located? The car has 150k and I drove last 90k miles since '01. I doubt anyone replaced this harness before me.
-The check engine light is not on, would there still be codes to read? I'm assuming, may be incorectly, that if there are codes to read the check engine light should be on.

Thanks.

will_w204

Certainly, get to a shop and have the codes read first. Codes are stored irregardless of a MIL. Think of ASR on these cars as the glue for the entire electrical system; there is no way to just "disconnect" it from the car. You have to fix the systems/components that interoperate with it. Then, you're likely focusing on 2 culprits - either the harness or the actuator. Installed, that's about 2k in repairs total, unless you can DIY. These are 2 things that are must-fixes on the ASR-cars even as preventive items. Both these were done on my car right before I bought it, and I still got an ASR light, limp mode, and no cruise control - because of a faulty left taillight assembly. The contacts go bad on these, and can cause all kinds of ASR shenanigans. Cheap DIY reapair. After that, you are indeed looking at speed sensors, wheels sensors, all the small components that 15 years of the elements will eventually destroy - but I imagine these are relatively easy DIY repairs.

I paid $3500 for my 93 400E post-ETA and harness, which means the PO lost money on it. In 2 months since, I've spent $3k more on it, and the trans is still original. These cars are not cheap, but I suppose for the enjoyment you get out of them, they are cheaper than a high-maintenance girlfriend, although they both protest loudly when you ignore their requests for attention.

Chinny4290

They don't just protest loudly, they get physical too

White_Knuckles

Stored codes can be read by you with a simple procedure and no special equipment. Search this site on LED codes.

Some have documented a by-pass method using a jumper on the code module across two diagnostic pin sockets. The unit lives under the hood, passenger side, near the firewall. It's black with a flip-up lid. You'll see several numbered pin/socket connections, a red LED and a push button.

This is a work-around for diag purposes and has strange behaviors. The main point is it helps prevent limp mode. The poster indicated it needed resets and fiddling and wouldn't hold very long, maybe a couple days before messing with it again.

Search sites on the harness deal. Euro, bio-degradable wiring was used in both the primary engine harness and the T-actuator. Degradable is the key word. They break down and create havoc. Easy inspection for you to verify.

lynx

Is there way to turn off the ASR? I've found a way for E500 but was not able to find anything for E320. The procedure for E500 is simple enough of cutting 3 wires out of ASR harness. Is there similar to E320? I hope there is for the systems on these two cars can't be very different. I also found a post regarding a break switch that turns off the ASR, which doesn't make much sense. In any case I'm in dire needs of getting this thing resolved. I'm at stand point of eithere getting rid of this problem cheaply, i.e. turn off the ASR completely, or getting rid of the car, since what I undersdand it will take a lot of $$ to diagnose and even more $$$ to fix the problem. Please, help. Thanks.

White_Knuckles

It might be difficult to see the root problem here. Shutting off ASR will not fix a failing throttle actuator. The throttle position sensor can wear and send crazy values to the ECU for example. You have researched for a quick fix that doesn't exist.

Report your codes and you will get replies. Check the codes that are stored now. It's embarassing easy to read the codes!

ASR is a system tied into ABS and throttle control. It can be fooled but not defeated easily.

lynx

Regarding the problem: ASR light went out and so far hasn't light up again. I can't claim credit for fixing it. All I did was to take out ABS/ASR unit, ECU unit that are behind the battery. I was ready to cut the wires that control the ASR, this was my mistake on not reading properly. This fix seemingly is only for E500. But I only realized when I opened up the shrink tube for ABS/ASR harness and counted the wires and couldn't find the number nor the colors of the wires that are mentioned in instructions for ASR defeat for E500. I put it all back together, checked the codes. There were none. I guess because I disconnected the battery. Drove it first time same thing. I noticed that the light would turn on at the end of 200 ft driveway. I thought it might have happened when I hit the breakes for the first time. Went back, erased the codes and wanted to see if hitting the breakes will trigger the ASR light again, but it didn't, and so far, knock on wood, it hasn't gone off. I don't think I've solved the problem so I want to keep digging.

Regarding codes:
Few things on my car. I have a 16 pin terminal with a button and an LED already there. Documentation that I found on line, unless I'm wrong, suggests that this is a CA car. Is this correct?
I had a copy of the book from a shop that states the procedure for reading codes. Here's what it tells me. Short the terminal 8 to 1(ground), turn ignition on, push and hold the button for 2-4 seconds and read the codes. Following this instructions I found codes 6 and 26, if I"m looking at the right list this is for 6(Idle control) 26 throttle body/control. These are the codes that were there before I disconnected the battery.
After I connected the battery and drove it for the first time code 6 showed up that I tried to deleate.
Now for the questions. Procedures that I found on this forum don't state that I have to short terminals 1 and 8 but should just be able to read codes. Also, I found a 170 pg. document that outlines the procedure for reading codes using a tool. It seems, if I understand it correctly there are different systems that you can read the codes depending which terminal you short to ground (1). Terminal 8 for instance is ECU.
Also, I found this web site that a guy had tricked the ASR on his S500 with 38 pin connector by shorting terminal for ASR diagnostic to ground putting that system into a diagnostic mode, effectively turning it off. Howevern, on E320 there's no diagnostic for ASR with a 16 pin connector. The closest by description of the error codes I was getting is terminal 14 which is for cruise control, idle speed control and electronic accelerator. I'm thinking if I ground this terminal to ground 1 this might have the same effect as tricking the ASR. This I have not tried yet. I want to ask if the info I got is correct, did I understand it correctly and if this logic makes sence.
Please, confirm on code reading, 6 and 26, if my car is CA car and if you think that grounding 14 to 1 will do the trick and if my assumption on grounding different terminals to ground (1) will give different set of codes depending on the system being diagnosed.
Thank you.

Chinny4290

I think you already found your potential culprits, but unfortunately neither are very cheap.

I'd take it into a specialized mechanic, find out if your harness was replaced. if not, I would do it then and there. In addition, if your harness was original, that means your throttle body actuator is original, and those have the same bad wiring found on the original harness, and both will cause CELs, poor running conditions, especially ASR issues. I don't know about the idle control though.

White_Knuckles

Keep reading man, these codes and reader descriptions can be misleading. You may read specific device codes with a home made reader made built with a momentary switch, an LED, test leads and pull-up resistors. The design is posted all over MB sites. For basic readings do not insert jumpers, just follow the directions.

16 pin with press-button and LED sounds right not cali. specific. My 94 has the same deal. This lists the basic codes that don't require an external reader used with pin inserts. Remember don't jumper any pins for below.
_________________________

Turn ignition on, press switch 2-4 secs, and count the number of flashes. After reading that code, press 2-4 seconds to read the next code, and continue iterating until all codes are read. You'll know all codes are read when you read the first code again. One flash means there are no codes to read.

To clear the codes, you must first read the code, then within 10 secs, press the button 6-8 secs.

Emissions - Using Built-in Diagnostic Module
1 No Fault Found
2 Heated oxygen sensor faulty
3 Lambda control faulty
4 Air injection system faulty hot film mass air flow sensor with hot wire
5 Exhaust gas recirculation faulty
6 Idle speed control faulty
7 Ignition system faulty
8 Engine coolant temperature sensor open circuit
9 Intake air temperature sensor, open circuit
10 Voltage at mass air sensor too high/low
11 Tn-signal (rpm signal ) at engine control module faulty
12 Heated oxygen sensor heater circuit open or circuit short
15 Injector, cylinder 2
16 Closed throttle position information faulty
17 Data exchange malfunction between individual control module
18 Adjustable camshaft timing solenoid circuit open or circuit short
19 Injectors circuit open or circuit short emission control module adaptation in engine
control module at limit
20 Vehicle speed signal not present
21 Purge switchover valve circuit open or circuit short
22 Crankshaft position sensor signal faulty
23 Intake manifold pressure (in base module pressure sensor-) with engine running too
high/low.
24 Starter ring gear segments and /or crankshaft position sensor faulty
25 Knock sensors or engine control module faulty
26 Upshift delay faulty
27 Not used
28 Engine coolant temperature sensor (engine coolant temperature change monitor )
44 Not used
45 Fuel safety shut-off electronic accelerator or cruise control active
46 Resonance intake manifold switchover valve
47 Not used
48 Not used
49 Voltage supply at engine control module 8v
50 Engine control module
_________

External reader required for all below:

PIN 8 ECU
1 No fault found
2 Engine Coolant temperature sensor
3 Intake air temperature sensor
4 Hot film mass air flow sensor
5 CTP switch
6 Not used
7 Not used
8 Idle speed control (ISC) system at upper or lower control stop or CC or EA indicates "limp
home" mode.
9 O2S 1 (before TWC) - voltage too high, circuit open or voltage implausible
10 O2S 2 (after TWC)voltage too high, circuit open or voltage implausible
11 O2S 1 heater (before TWC) - Current too high/low or short circuit.
12 O2S 2 heater (after TWC) - Current too high/low or short circuit.
13 O2S (Lambda) control system operating at rich or lean limit
14 Injector, cylinder 1
15 Injector, cylinder 2
16 Injector, cylinder 3
17 Injector, cylinder 4
18 Injector, cylinder 5
19 Injector, cylinder 6
20 Self-adaptation at idle speed or upper/lower partial load at rich or lean limit
21 Ignition output 3 or ignition coil for cylinder 1 and 6
22 Ignition output 1 or ignition coil for cylinder 2 and 5 (Engine 111, cylinder 1 and 4)
23 Ignition output 2 or ignition coil for cylinder 3 and 4 (Engine 111, cylinder 2 and 3)
24 CKP sensor or magnet for position sensor not recognized
25 CMP sensor not recognized or implausible
26 Not used
27 TN-signal (rpm signal ) - open or short to ground
28 VSS - open circuit
29 Not used
30 Fuel pump relay module - open or short circuit
31 Not used
32 Knock sensors 1 and /or 2
33 Maximum retard setting on at least one cylinder has been reached or the ignition angle
deviation between the individual cylinders is greater than 6 degrees crankshaft angle
34 Knock control-output switch in engine control module faulty Momentary fault in
self-adaptation closed throttle speed/partial load
35 Model 124,129 and 140 AIR pump switchover valve and/or electromagnetic AIR pump
clutch. Model 202 AIR pump switchover valve and/or AIR relay module
36 Purge control valve - open/short to ground or B+
37 Upshift delay switchover valve
38 Adjustable camshaft timing solenoid - open/short to ground or B+
39 Exhaust gas recirculation switchover valve - open/short to ground or B+
40 Transmission overload protection switch - open/short to ground or B+ or open or closed or
implausible
41 CAN communication from engine control module faulty
42 CAN communication from ASR, EA/CC/ISC module or diagnostic module (OBD II) faulty
43 Starter signal (circuit 50) not present
44 Not used
45 Fuel safety shut-off of electronic accelerator or cruise control active
46 Resonance intake manifold switchover valve - open/short to ground or B+
48 O2S 2 (after TWC) heating circuit relay module - open/short to ground or B+
49 Voltage supply at engine control module implausible/low volts
50 Engine control module faulty or not coded.
____________

PIN 14 CC/ETA
1 No fault found
2 EA/CC/ISC control module (N4/1) or Safety contact switch (M16/1s1) or Stop lamp
switch or Cruise control switch or Actual value potentiometer or Starter lock-out/back-up
lamp switch or engine speed signal or vehicle speed signal or closed throttle position
switch or safety relay in EA/CC/ISC control module
3 Right EA/CC/ISC actuator (left cylinder bank) (M16/1)
4 Cruise control switch (S40)
5 Stop lamp switch (S9/1)
6 Starter lock-out/backup lamp switch
7 CAN data bus signal from EA/CC/ISC, ABS/ASR, HFM-SFI or LH-SFI (right or left)
control module faulty.
8 Left front axle vehicle speed sensor from ABS/ASR control module
9 Left rear axle vehicle speed sensor from ABS/ASR control module or in 124 chassis
Hall-effect speed sensor.
10 Engine speed signal (TN) from base module (LH-SFI) or engine control module (HFMSFI)
11 Closed throttle recognition signal to engine control module (HFM-SFI or Left LH-SFI)
Fuel safety shut-off to engine control module (HFM-SFI or left or right LH-SFI)
12 EA/CC/ISC control module voltage supply
13 Left EA/CC/ISC actuator (right cylinder bank) or actual value potentiometer (M16/4r1 or
M16/4r2) or actuator motor (M16/4m1)or magnetic clutch (M16/4k1).
14 Closed throttle position contact switch
15 CAN data exchange with ABS/ASR control module illogical

lynx

Thanks for your reply.
Today ASR light showed up briefly again, same thing cold car driven to the end of the driveway, hit breakes first time ASR light on. Couldn't replicate it the second time thought. Code still 6-Idle speed control. What is this idle control anyway? Is it expensive? Is this for engine idle control? Is it in the air intake tube?
The car is running kinda rough, not erratic, but just shaking a bit and growles, more than usual, when transmission is on D but the car is standing. Does that sound like an idle speed control? Also I noticed that the more accesaries I turn on the rougher it runs, and feels when standing with transmission is engaged. The car should compensate with higher RPMs as more accessories are truned but it feels that it doesn't.

Chinny4290

Could be just the idle control unit then, which is on the driver's side right next to the engine. You'll see a steel cable attached to it, which is what the pedal is also attached to. I've never replaced them, but I've fiddled with mine before, causing it to get an error, but I easily reset that lol.

Someone else may be able to time in.

White_Knuckles

The #6 error can occur like Chinny indicates, from messing with the throttle even when the engine is switched off. You can remove the black, air plenum sections and inspect down the intake bore of the throttle body.

Often, there may be sticky goo on or around the throttle butterfly valve and streaks running down the bore. Clean with a proper solvent, let it evaporate some before starting. This cleaning will cause the #6 code from rolling the throttle plate open and closed by hand.

Your rough idle when in gear, enhanced from elec. accessories is most likely shot motor mounts. I've chased this one for awhile sure it was ignition. One or both oil filled mounts collapse and conduct normal engine vibes to the frame where you feel steady idle vibration in the cabin. If it's always there, suspect the mounts. If intermittent, it's something else as mounts can't heal themselves.

At idle, the tach needle should be steady with no surges or dips somewhere near 6K RPM. The RPM's will drop slightly when loading the alternator with heater, headlights, etc. The idle does not compensate from load. I believe the circuit is more like a throttle position sensor. Things are way-different with MB, toss your prior experience out, totally a new learning curve.

Brian McL

Replace the engine wiring harness......if it is original...IT IS BAD.
And if you're still not convinced open up the outer "wrap" somewhere near one of the plugs and have a look atthe condition of the inner wires. They will be all cracked and the insulation will just crumble.
You can do this yourself if you have even the smallest amount of common sense.....although thinking that this car had the same electrics as a 500E does make me wonder...just a little.....
It needs to be replaced and until you do you can't believe any of the DTC you are getting. A bad harness WILL create any number of false codes.
Then, plan on replacing the electronic throttle because that wiring harness in that is bad TOO!
IT IS......
Get a re-built one from Beckmann Technolgies.
Now you have removed 80% of the potential electrical problems with that car and there is a 90% chance that is the root cause of your present issue.
If the ASR is still acting up then the problem IS with the ASR.

lynx

Again thank you all for your replies.
Again the ASR light showed up. Car was standing in the rain for the whole day and the ASR light showed up again at the end of the driveway. I actually warmed up the car before I started driving it, having a gut feel that the ASR will show up, my reasoning was to get the car warmed up so I can see if ASR light shows up after the transfission kicks in to second gear. I have a feeling that if the car gets up to certain speed the ASR light won't light up, and I think its true. In any case, here's what happened. The ASR light showed up again at the end of the driveway when I hit the breakes. I restart the car drive it to for about 300ft more to the convinience store reaching no more than 20mph hit the breaks, ASR light shows up. Restart the car and now driving down the street to the first light reaching 30mph hit the breaks nothing happenes. No ASR light. It seems that ASR light depending on speed after which, even if I hit the breaks, does not light up. What components are in the ASR system that are measuring speed. I know it works with ABS, is it using same wheel sensors? I know there's a sensor in the differential is that measuring speed as well?

Regarding wiring: I did open up the wiring harness and all wires seemed in pretty good condition. Even the shrink tube was good. I had trouble cutting it open. No crumbling, no disintegration at touch. So my feeling is that the wiring is good.

New code: Another code showed up #5. Circulation of exsaust gas? what is that? Anyone? Two previous codes showed up #6 and #26 which showed up before but after deleting them they didn't come back. I deleted all codes today, waiting which one is going to show up first.

Brian McL

#5 is the EGR....either the valve is faulty, (which was a problem and I beleive had an early recall on the M104 engines) located on the exhaust manifold OR the pipe that leads from it to the intake on the other side if the engine. The pipe runs behind the engine and gets clogged. Search the forum for cleaning procedure.
The one for the idle control is just that. Problem that may have resolved itself.
The upshift valve I wouldn't worry about. They appear and disappear all the time.
There is alot of information on this forum about these issues. Very well documented.
Just do some reading.

Perpendicular

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread but figured a lot of my issues are like yours...

Mine gives me the dreaded ASR light but only when it is cold outside and on the initial start of the day.

When the temps are above 60, or if I go out at lunch, the light will not come on.

When I get the light, I have to drive the car for a few miles, stop and restart it and then the light doesn't re-appear that day.

All the usual stuff, LHM, etc, appear. No check engine light. Replaced gas pedal position switch. Car runs perfectly otherwise with no apparent issues.

Wiring harness looks perfect at all of the connectors and at random areas that I checked - no brittle jacket's, etc.



Anyone have any ideas? Should I attempt to clean the throttle actuator or just go ahead and replace it? I hate to buy a $900 part unless I can pretty much presume it is bad.

ZedStyle

from what i've heard/read, the brake lamp switch can possibly cause the light to turn on. the fact that it usually happens when you first hit the brake reinforces that.
i could be completely wrong, but maybe try to replace that first? it's like $15, but might save you $1500.... just a thought!

rayhennig

Do you hear any noise just before the ASR light comes on?

I get a whirring noise from time-to-time and it always makes me think, "Oh dear, is that problem back?" I'll tell you why ...

When I first got my 300CE-24 Sportline (ABS/ASR etc.) in 1998 from the local MB dealer with 1 year warranty, I went through this ASR light business. The whirring would start and the ASR light would come on. I don't think there's a limp-home mode on this car - any comments on that?

Any old way, I took it back to MB and they repeatedly bled the hydraulic system and said they'd solved the problem. They said that the alternative would be a new ASR/ABS pump which, doubtless, they didn't wish to fund under warranty.

The good news is that the ASR issue has never returned and, since changing the OVP Relay, neither have any ASR/ABS light issues.

The car is still a staller but latest thinking is Crank Shaft Position Sensor so we await with interest.

Good luck to you.

RayH

ZedStyle

wondering what ever came of this

Perpendicular

Me too, my car is now in permanent LHM and has been parked for a couple of months now. I want to get it going again and will spend the money if needed, I just don't want to throw parts at it blindly.

If anyone were to give it there best shot, what part should be replaced first if the wiring is good, the light sockets are clean with correctly functioning bulbs, etc?

Perpendicular

Ok, so I ordered and received a new throttle actuator this week. It took all of 30 - 40 minutes to install and it fixed the issue. WOW! This car drives like new - at least in my mind.

Thanks to all for the help and pointers.

JSe420

Does anyone know if the throttle actuator is interchangeable from a 4.0 and 4.2?