RBYCC

Beverly Hills did the original build.

Oddly the few 6.0L both SOHC and DOHC that I have seen ( built by BHMA and Westmont ) did not have the Recaros or the steering wheel.

The V8 124's that were built by AMG in Germany are more apt to have these options.

The builds were done "ala carte" to the customers specification

RBYCC

Thanks Pete...

The bidding seems to end up in the $40K range which is indicative of the current market.

If you remember the SOHC coupe that with the "custom" interior.
I was negotiating in the high twenties based on condition, but the seller thought it was worth twice the amount.

At the same time the current EBAY listing was at $90K.

The best value at the moment may be the SOHC 300TE in the mid thirties.
Rare and easier to maintain 6.0L SOHC.

At the peak of the market a Hammer in this condition would probably have sold in the $70K - $90K range.

Only to look at eroding muscle car prices at auctions.

I don't look at cars as a money making investment, but it is nice to buy at a low point in the market.
More enjoyment of driving.

Like anything, the money is made when you buy, not when you sell.

2PHAST

I used to sell AMG parts back in the day and BHMA was the west coast distributor. I wish that I had kept all my catalogs, you could order all the parts minus the car to build one of these.

Ortolan

I hope you end up getting it Ed. I'd love to see a comprehensive shoot-out between the Hammer, your Turbo Technics coupe and a 500E.

pifcat2

It's a fine car and well preserved example but how is it a "real" AMG if not converted by AMG in Germany?

I bought a wrecked '85 300E imported and probably spec built by AMG West but it was not registered or considered a "real" AMG so I decided not to restore it. It had most of the options (poly kit, Penta wheels, Recaros, AMG steering wheel, Euro wood) but no evidence the engine was AMG tuned and had no certificate or build sheet.

BrabusBenz300E

Gah, I hope I can find an example like this for sale in 10 years when I can seriously build my Mercedes collection

RBYCC

First AMG was a tuner that franchised it's operations.
Any modded car done by BHMA or Westmont in the USA or Stratton in the UK were as "real" as anything that came out of Germany.

There is no "registered" AMG vehicles that I am aware of and documentation even from Germany was minimal at best.

Remember it was ala carte regardless of where built and engine mods weren't always performed.

To say that the "Hammer" ( 6.0L DOHC 124 chassis variant ) which is the rarest of all AMG vehicles is not "real" shows an amazing lack of knowledge of what AMG was !!!!

Franchises are franchises and the franchisee must maintain a certain standard.....KFC is KFC even if the "Colonel" didn't fry your chicken

pifcat2

My question stems from years of discussions on this and other boards of a seller claiming to have an authentic AMG in order to sell it at a premium. I've also contacted the AMG registry as to what's authentic or not. I didn't know BHMA was a licensed franchise but I do know the 6.0L Hammer is the holy grail of W124s

2PHAST

Registered AMG built vehicles began in 1992, assuming it was ordered and built by AMG of Germany (can't comment on AMG of Japan). The VIN, when decoded, would list all modifications done to the car. 1992 was also the first year AMG worked directly with european dealers to offer completed cars, built to order. This included the 3.2l 190e and several flavors of W124's as well.

USA built vehicles are very hard to verify, as they were not really AMG built vehicles per say, I believe most consider a AMG built vehicle one that is new sent directly from Mercedes (in some partial completed form) to AMG for finish work and VIN stamping. So the USA built cars could of been built by any of the several AMG dealers, resellers or private parties buying the parts and assembling their own vehicle. I wouldn't consider a private party built AMG the same as one built by BHMA and I wouldn't consider one built by BHMA the same as one built by AMG of Germany. I have seen many private party built AMG cars from the 80's and 90's, way more then ones built by the franchised AMG dealers in the USA. So as a word of caution, never take the sellers word as to the authenticity of the vehicle, do your own research.

Given what I just stated, its difficult to determine value, enough evidence needs to be present to determine where the vehicle was built, original BHMA add-on window stickers and/or invoices are mandatory.

I do recall seeing this car in the BHMA catalogs, or at least one that looks almost identical, hence why I wish I would of kept all of the sales lit and catalogs I had from them.

RBYCC

Early cars are very hard to trace and not neccesarily in any registry.
That is what I was referencing.
The main thing to look at is if their is any "provenance" on the vehicle such as articles that can document the vehicle from the start.

A bit easier to replicate a 5.6L or 6.0L SOHC conversion but doubtful a 6.0L DOHC conversion could be done with all the correct mechanical and drive train mods at a price that would be much below what it cost in 1986 to 1988.

The really rare and wild 124's "Hammers" and "Widebodies" tend to be pre 1988.
Stratton UK even built two RHD "Hammers", one of which is in existence and was owned by a forum member in the UK.
This holds true also for the 107, 201, and 126 models.

The later 124 cars tended not to be as radical especially in engine mods and were more kits and suspensions.

Why ?
Because the introduction of the 500E-M119 in 1992 brought about a vehicle that was "factory" built to a higher quality standard then any of the previous AMG cars.
The price was half of what one would pay to get equal performance in an AMG modded vehicle.
AMG realizing the "competition" slowly morphed into MB and out came the C36,E36 and E60.

To me any early vehicle that can be traced to an AMG authorized location, even with minimal documentaion is a true AMG product.

I'll go back to the 1988 6.0L SOHC coupe that was on EBAY...easily traced back Westmont, but the "custom"? interior lessened its value to a collector.
Conversely the 1987 300TE 6.0L SOHC was featured in Car and Driver when new and in The Star at a later date.
This is enough provenance to prove it is an AMG vehicle regadless of if it appears in a registry.

P.S.

You possibly had something real in your 300E, the only oddity was the Penta rims which appeared primarily on 107 and 126 modded cars !

omegabenz6

I've seen published numbers of 183 and 187 mph, depending on the track and day, etc. If you believe the spedo at 304 kph, that would be 188 mph.

RunningTooHot

Just for the hell of it, I ran a carfax report on this beast (I have an active account for another few days). I cut & pasted the VIN number right from the Ebay ad.

There's a lot of talk of "provenance", but the carfax data shows this: (pardon the formatting)

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. CARFAX checked over 5 billion vehicle history events and found 4 record(s) for this 1987 MERCEDES-BENZ 300 TDT (WDBEB93D7HF036603)

04/15/1987 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation Registration issued or renewed
First owner reported
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Blue

12/31/1992 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Central Ontario Registration issued or renewed
New owner reported
Registered as commercial vehicle

08/01/1997 32,309 California
Inspection Station
Palmdale, CA Passed emissions inspection

07/23/2007 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Sherman Oaks, CA Title issued or updated

Now, about that "19,000 miles" originality? (perhaps 19,000 miles since converted?) And a color change is certainly possible, BUT it would be pretty difficult to convert a wagon into a sedan, don't you think?

P.S.- However, I would have to say that if I were converting a car that would be remaining in California, I would DEFINITELY start with a diesel, as California never requires smog checks for diesels. One of those loopholes that I just love. (anyone for a blown rat motor in a perfectly street-legal "diesel" 126?)

Bigpete123

Woa. Thats a bit scary. But on the other hand, if this were scam you'd think the seller would have a lower reserve and just take the money and run.

neanderthal

the selller has to be a little loony

he is also selling an E21 3series wuth 240XXX miles with a $6K buy it now price!?!?!?

thats nothing more than a parts car for 2002 owners with that kinda milage

RBYCC

Not a scam, just a typo....I've been speaking with the seller/owner for some time.

It's vetted and legit

RBYCC

Did you ever think that it was a typo and the real VIN has been established by the bidders ?

2PHAST

Loony to ask 60k+ for the car, yes. As stated before, the vehicle isn't worth 40k IMO, but the bidders establish the market price, not unlike the bidders at a Barrett Jackson auction. Given that this car has been on Ebay numerous times and several of the bidders are willing to pay 40k+, you have your established market value. Unfortunately, the seller does not realize how things work in the automotive world. If he were smart, he would take the last high offer and run.

RBYCC

Agree fully...I have been willing to pay a max of $45K and currently have offered less to the seller in a post bid closing negotiation.

EBAY is no different then Barrett Jackson, RJM, Christies, whoever...
The seller can establish the price with a reserve or let the market decide with a no reserve.
Either way the highest bid always establishes the market price at the time of the auction.

There are three "Hammers" involved, a W124, a C124, and a S124 ( that was the VIN number listed in error ).

The W124 and C124 were BHMA conversions, the S124 was a Westmont conversion for a Canadian owner on a 300TD.

My real interest is in the C124

RunningTooHot

Please note that I was, and am not inferring that this is a "scam" car. However, it is very odd to me that the owner would be so careless - transcribing the wrong VIN when he listed the car.

Off topic: Many years ago (early 90's), I met a guy (Jerry?) who was at the stealership in Calabasas looking for an oil filter for his car. The parts guy blew him off, and I went out to look at his car, and I got quite a surprise: a white DOHC hammer. I presume it was a 6.0. He told me it was the same car that was tested in one of the major magazines, originally owned by a surgeon from Atlanta (if I remember correctly).

I explained to him that it should be a regular M-117 filter, as that is the engine block that those AMG's were based on. (the Aluminum M-117, not the iron M-117's). We talked cars for a little while, explaining my gray-market SLC to him. He offered to take me for a ride.

We went onto the freeway, and... Oh... My.... God! You have to put it into the perspective of the early 90's, but that car was UNBELIEVABLE! Going UPHILL on the freeway (from Malibu Canyon up towards Parkway Calabasas), that car was pulling harder than a contemporary 930, and went from 80 to an indicated 130+ in NO TIME.

I Drove back home in my 5.0 SLC, and if felt like a dog after that...

RBYCC

I didn't take it this way...
Understand sometimes when you know more background then is available you tend to think everyone does.

The seller has three Hammers.
I've been communicating with him for some time, but it's like pulling teeth to get basic info.
Cars are real, but getting tired of the back and forth with the seller.

Current market is lower then what he wants, so I'm backing off and waiting for him to decide if he will accept my offer.

The coupe is the one that I really would like to own

bzliteyear

i've had many experiences dealing with this type of person...the type of guy who would own 3 AMG hammers.
do you really think it works to treat him like a typical MB seller?
as for the value, the person probably thinks they're worth more than they are...otherwise, he would have never acquired them in the first place. bottomline, this guy WANTS to SELL...not NEED.
unless the guy DECIDES that he NEEDS to sell, i don't think it's going to be worth any more your time/frustration dealing with this. after all, it's going to just leave you guys frustrated. my $.02.
Patrick

RBYCC

You hit the nail on the head...
I've been buying and selling collector cars for about forty years, including importing in the early eighties of vintage Brit stuff.

Doubt the seller is highly motivated, but situations change....he knows how to reach me !!!

Ortolan

Given that the number of genuine Hammers is so low (13?), are the details and current location of all of them known? I had attempted to create a registry for Turbo Technics conversions and there are far more of those (60-75).
If anyone has the data I think it would be worth adding to a forum/Wikipedia page.

2PHAST

13 may be the offical number produced by AMG of Germany, but there are way more of these "Hammers" produced. Several US resellers built these cars, and so did AMG of Japan. Exact numbers are not known, as AMG and the resellers never kept accurate records in the 80's

This car is not one of the 13, its built by one of the many registered resellers for AMG. All of the parts were available off the shelf and could be bought and installed by anyone, even the motor could be ordered.

omegabenz6

It has been relisted again see item 260344002849