Engine stalled at traffic lights and stop signs - MBWorld.org Forums



E-Class (W124) 1984-1995: E 260, E 300, E 320, E 420, E 500 (Includes CE, T, TD models)

Engine stalled at traffic lights and stop signs

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
Old 04-09-2009, 10:59 PM   #1
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unhappy Engine stalled at traffic lights and stop signs

Experienced more headaches with my 93 300CE, after engine warmed up, any hard stop will make RPM drop under 500, some time even kill the engine at red lights, left turn lights and stop signs. And if i shift from Park to Reverse, release brake padel right away, will kill the engine too, even IAC tried it's best to keep engine running.

I was suspect wiring issues, but after i taped up cam actuator and MAF hardness, still do the same thing. Checked T/B, it's super clean, even adjusted idel to 1200rpm, still do wont help.

We dont have MB OBD1 cable on our shop scaner, what i can do now is just diagnosis from every basic theories. I'll check if there is vaccum hose leak causing EGR working all the time or EGR stuck open. Then check spark plugs and coil tomorrow.

Any body experienced samilar condition or might have some ideas?

Last edited by xsun; 04-09-2009 at 11:01 PM.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 09:42 AM   #2
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,201
Drives: E
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Check the fuse on the OVP that sits behind the battery. It is a very common problem. Also pull off the idle control valve and shoot some carb cleaner into it.
I'm not sure about the hard stop...but the OVP is the cause of the majority of stalling problems.
ps2cho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 12:45 PM   #3
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Saijin_Naib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,967
Drives: 1990 300ce 24v I6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cap/plugs/cables?
Saijin_Naib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 03:09 PM   #4
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2cho View Post
Check the fuse on the OVP that sits behind the battery. It is a very common problem. Also pull off the idle control valve and shoot some carb cleaner into it.
I'm not sure about the hard stop...but the OVP is the cause of the majority of stalling problems.

What is OVP? There is a 15A fuse sitting behind the battery, fuse is good. Where is the control valve? I just see a big T/B module in the center of manifold
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 03:14 PM   #5
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib View Post
Cap/plugs/cables?
possible related to famous engine hardness weathering problem? I have a quote for engine hardness in : Part # W0133-1715517, $:1161.00 and Part # W0133-1715518, $1009.32.

which one i should chose if i really need it, and that price reasonable?
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 04:57 PM   #6
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Saijin_Naib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,967
Drives: 1990 300ce 24v I6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh no, I was going with the ignition wires and spark plug cables first. For my car after we replaced the cap & rotor it will still stall sometimes. Turns out my ignition wires and plug wires were cracked and cross-firing when it was humid out so we changed them too and so far it is gone.

I think your car is a year or two early for the wiring harness issues. I believe you have the same M104 that I have.
Saijin_Naib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 05:11 PM   #7
CDP
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,816
Drives: W124's
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Check your MAF sensor.
CDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 06:17 PM   #8
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib View Post
Oh no, I was going with the ignition wires and spark plug cables first. For my car after we replaced the cap & rotor it will still stall sometimes. Turns out my ignition wires and plug wires were cracked and cross-firing when it was humid out so we changed them too and so far it is gone.

I think your car is a year or two early for the wiring harness issues. I believe you have the same M104 that I have.
i got waste spark system with three coils on valve cover, your M104 using rotor/distributor?

Last edited by xsun; 04-10-2009 at 06:23 PM.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 06:22 PM   #9
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDPham View Post
Check your MAF sensor.
That was frist thing i did chris. i taped up all the weathered naked MAF wiring, applied "brush on tape" and even unpluged MAF, still jerk and stalled when shift P to R, or N to D. Seems like any excessive load at idle will kill the engine.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 10:00 PM   #10
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
up date: by adjusting the throttle cable, no more traffic light and stop sign stalls, running 1500rpm(sounds like racing engine, huh?) at no load idel, and 900rpm with loaded idel(in D and R). But put in gear right away after start up, still make engine struggled close to stall, have to hold on brake and keep in gear for 20 something seconds till it runs stable.

it makes me think about the T/B driving mechaism(they looks complex) worn out and making idel too low ?

Last edited by xsun; 04-10-2009 at 11:22 PM.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 10:50 PM   #11
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Saijin_Naib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,967
Drives: 1990 300ce 24v I6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah Xsun, my 300ce uses the early M104 engine that the 320SL of the time used. I guess after 92 it switched to the coilpack one.
Saijin_Naib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 12:51 AM   #12
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,201
Drives: E
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsun View Post
What is OVP? There is a 15A fuse sitting behind the battery, fuse is good. Where is the control valve? I just see a big T/B module in the center of manifold
It is the overvoltage protection relay. It sits behind the battery in a small red box. It will be behind the waterproof plastic shield. Before shelling out $1000 for the wiring harness, replace the OVP for $40. It is an item that usually goes bad anywhere from 50k-150k on the w124's and can cause a ton of idle and stalling problems.
ps2cho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 01:04 AM   #13
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2cho View Post
It is the overvoltage protection relay. It sits behind the battery in a small red box. It will be behind the waterproof plastic shield. Before shelling out $1000 for the wiring harness, replace the OVP for $40. It is an item that usually goes bad anywhere from 50k-150k on the w124's and can cause a ton of idle and stalling problems.
how do we test, and verify the failure?
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 08:58 AM   #14
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
C43AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,754
Drives: 98 Black C43 , 00' C230K , 91 420SEL , 08' ML320 CDI
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsun View Post
how do we test, and verify the failure?
With all the headaches your having , for $40.00 it would seem to me to be worth it to plug-n-play it to see if it fixes the problem .
C43AMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:06 AM   #15
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You know, i'm a service tech work for GM, to define the problem and finding the reason is kind of my porfessional persuit, and slove the problem at the same time will be great.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:25 AM   #16
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
appatula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Connecticut, New Haven
Posts: 1,297
Drives: 95' AMG SeeThreeSix
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This sounds like either, MAF, OVP, or ICV failure to me. Seeing that you think you have ruled two of those out the OVP relay would be a cheap alternative compared to the harness. And as said earlier, the OVP relays are prone to start acting funky on higher mileage W124s.


I'm not really aware of any die-hard ways to test OVP relays for failure other than "seat of pants". Anyone else?
appatula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #17
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,201
Drives: E
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by appatula View Post
This sounds like either, MAF, OVP, or ICV failure to me. Seeing that you think you have ruled two of those out the OVP relay would be a cheap alternative compared to the harness. And as said earlier, the OVP relays are prone to start acting funky on higher mileage W124s.


I'm not really aware of any die-hard ways to test OVP relays for failure other than "seat of pants". Anyone else?
There is no way to test it. Only to check the two fuses that sits on the top under the little waterproof cap.

Over time the OVP gets water into it and the internals fail. This is an item that you do not want to try and DIY-fix.

It is something that is part of "Stu Ritters" must have parts to carry in the car. I carry a spare in my trunk.
ps2cho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:58 AM   #18
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Saijin_Naib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,967
Drives: 1990 300ce 24v I6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've got one of those and another MAS unit. Granted it is my old, faulty MAS but I can still drive on it if my newer MAS craps out on me.
Right, speaking of which, try and test your MAS unit. Mine also caused further stalling issues and struggling under acceleration. Turns out some of the pins get de-soldered and worn over the years and causes intermittent issues.
Saijin_Naib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 12:01 PM   #19
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
appatula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Connecticut, New Haven
Posts: 1,297
Drives: 95' AMG SeeThreeSix
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2cho View Post
There is no way to test it. Only to check the two fuses that sits on the top under the little waterproof cap.

Over time the OVP gets water into it and the internals fail. This is an item that you do not want to try and DIY-fix.

It is something that is part of "Stu Ritters" must have parts to carry in the car. I carry a spare in my trunk.
That is exactly what I thought! I can attest to extending the life of the original OVP relay in my car by dissecting it and re soldering some melted contacts. The 12V contact and the relay coil PCB solder joint were totaled. Lasted all of 3 months .
appatula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #20
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by appatula View Post
That is exactly what I thought! I can attest to extending the life of the original OVP relay in my car by dissecting it and re soldering some melted contacts. The 12V contact and the relay coil PCB solder joint were totaled. Lasted all of 3 months .

Cool, i gnna try that right now
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 05:49 PM   #21
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2cho View Post
There is no way to test it. Only to check the two fuses that sits on the top under the little waterproof cap.

Over time the OVP gets water into it and the internals fail. This is an item that you do not want to try and DIY-fix.

It is something that is part of "Stu Ritters" must have parts to carry in the car. I carry a spare in my trunk.
I just wondering how this OPV relay works?
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 06:03 PM   #22
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,201
Drives: E
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsun View Post
I just wondering how this OPV relay works?
I am not sure exactly, but I believe it protects the electrical components from any surge in voltage. It is Mercedes' answer to replacing a $40 part rather than a part that could cost much more and be difficult to diagnose.
It is exactly as the name implies -- Overvoltage Protection Relay.
ps2cho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 06:40 PM   #23
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Posts: 2,833
Drives: lots of cars
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
It is something that is part of "Stu Ritters" must have parts to carry in the car. I carry a spare in my trunk.
I have like 10 spares lmao...ohh and always carry a fuel pump relay too..

YNVDIZW124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 07:08 PM   #24
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
xsun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 20
Drives: 1993 Mercedes 320CE, 1993 audi v8 quattro, 1990 audi coupe quattro(doing 20vt project)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just had that OVP replay apart. Inside the OVP, have three relays: K1,k2 and K3. K1 and K2 seems in same size, staped P/N and protecting resistors are same too, but have way different resistance on coil wring, one is 73oms, another is 36, i wonder that might be the problem.

Gonna order one monday. Price listing on AutopartsWay is about 100 dollars, will try local mercedes dealer, sometime, dealers have good price parts too

Last edited by xsun; 04-11-2009 at 08:57 PM.
xsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 09:00 PM   #25
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Posts: 2,833
Drives: lots of cars
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just get all the ones i can find from the junk yard and most of them work...
YNVDIZW124 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ML320 2009 BlueTec coolant leak and short circuit dmitry_sorokin Mercedes Tech Talk 6 12-15-2016 04:49 PM
Activating Traffic Management Control (TMC) via Engineering Mode? seragaby C-Class (W204) 3 08-03-2016 07:16 AM
September 20th Mosport GoKarting event 3 - 6pm Sunday! Touge.ca 20+ events 2015!! Touge.ca Canada 1 09-16-2015 10:51 PM
M104 transmission behaviour and fluid level AlexN Mercedes Tech Talk 13 09-09-2015 11:04 AM
September 13th Sunday - Touge.ca Cayuga TMP track event 5-9pm! #18 of 20+ Events Touge.ca Canada 0 09-02-2015 12:11 AM


Tags
190e, 1990, audi, bad, coil, gear, m104, overvoltage, periodically, problems, relay, signs, stalling, stalls, stop, w124


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:38 AM.


Copyright 2001-2012 InternetBrands, Inc. / MBWorld.org. All Rights Reserved.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: