Suggestions on Transmission and Engine Rebuild ?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 46
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
Suggestions on Transmission and Engine Rebuild ?
My 94 E320 wagon's reverse stopped working a couple days ago. 175k miles. I intend on keeping the car forever but need to get it back on the road as soon as possible so not sure how deep I want to delve.
The M104 engine needs a headgasket desperately. 1 quart every 5 tanks...I think all is leaking not burning.
I am going to look at the bottom end bearings and replace if necessary. Not sure about the rings... should I bother?
Suggestions on rebuild kits out there?
Any specialty tools I will need to rebuild?
Other parts I should replace for sake of ease while I am cracking it open?
Any fun bits worth doing since it is apart...cam..power pullies?
I have rebuild an engine before...though never had to time a DOHC.
Any decent pdf manuals I should download?
The transmission will most likely get a full rebuild while it is out. I figure if I don't do this then I will never have a reason to rebuild a transmission ever and never learn how.
The game plan after lots of deliberating and thinking of buying a used engine/tranny, or just a used tranny, or even a whole car to part out and keep engine and transmission has yielded to just pulling the existing ones and rebuilding both.
Thanks for any help... I have been reading up as much as I can but have little free time these days to do proper research on my own.
The M104 engine needs a headgasket desperately. 1 quart every 5 tanks...I think all is leaking not burning.
I am going to look at the bottom end bearings and replace if necessary. Not sure about the rings... should I bother?
Suggestions on rebuild kits out there?
Any specialty tools I will need to rebuild?
Other parts I should replace for sake of ease while I am cracking it open?
Any fun bits worth doing since it is apart...cam..power pullies?
I have rebuild an engine before...though never had to time a DOHC.
Any decent pdf manuals I should download?
The transmission will most likely get a full rebuild while it is out. I figure if I don't do this then I will never have a reason to rebuild a transmission ever and never learn how.
The game plan after lots of deliberating and thinking of buying a used engine/tranny, or just a used tranny, or even a whole car to part out and keep engine and transmission has yielded to just pulling the existing ones and rebuilding both.
Thanks for any help... I have been reading up as much as I can but have little free time these days to do proper research on my own.
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Mercedes Benz
No special tools required. It´s a fairly straight forward job.
There is no reason to look at the bearings or rings in vast majority of cases.
You should replace the valve stem seals and have the head machined. Replacing the short water pump hose would also be smart.
Regarding the transmission, it´s also a straight forward job, if you´re familiar with those things. Some special tools and a bit of know how required. Number one being cleanliness.
Cheers,
There is no reason to look at the bearings or rings in vast majority of cases.
You should replace the valve stem seals and have the head machined. Replacing the short water pump hose would also be smart.
Regarding the transmission, it´s also a straight forward job, if you´re familiar with those things. Some special tools and a bit of know how required. Number one being cleanliness.
Cheers,
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The bottom end shouldn't need any attention...They are pretty bulletproof unless you ran it low on oil for a long time.
No reverse is the B3 disks. Search my name and you'll find my thread on it. Lots of pics. It happens to every 722.3 at some point so don't feel bad.
No reverse is the B3 disks. Search my name and you'll find my thread on it. Lots of pics. It happens to every 722.3 at some point so don't feel bad.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 46
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
Which tools might I need for the transmission rebuild? I am also looking into rebuild kits. What I want to do is change all the clutches... any idea on a good comprehensive rebuild kit?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
I am going to do all the clutches since I intend on keeping the car for a long time.
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Sounds a good plan. With the PDF's in hand, it shouldnt be hard. The most difficult part as I said in the thread was the seals on the front pump. For the bands, it 'looks' complicated, but it really isnt. You literally just use a magnet and remove everything one by one in order.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
Will do thanks!.
I am still having trouble finding a comprehensive post on parts needed in an engine rebuild. Any suggestions where to look? I have checked MB world and peachparts. My intention is to drive this till at least 300k and would hate to have to pull the engine a second time in a few years.
I am still having trouble finding a comprehensive post on parts needed in an engine rebuild. Any suggestions where to look? I have checked MB world and peachparts. My intention is to drive this till at least 300k and would hate to have to pull the engine a second time in a few years.
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If it were me, I wouldn't spend the time on the bottom end because they are proven to last a long time (unless you have certain bottom end issues you have not posted here?). I'd rebuild the top end and drive it until the bottom goes boom then take your rebuild top and put it on a new bottom. It'll be cheaper in the long run and you won't have to drop a ton of unnecessary cash right now.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
I am reading that the m103's are getting well over 300k miles no worries, but haven't seen that many M104's with that many miles yet.
I haven't read of oil pump failures yet, so I guess I'll leave the original oil pump. Other than Hoses, gaskets and belt and chain tensioners anything else I should be ordering for the build?
I haven't read of oil pump failures yet, so I guess I'll leave the original oil pump. Other than Hoses, gaskets and belt and chain tensioners anything else I should be ordering for the build?
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94 E500
So I'm sitting watching TV and surfing my favorite MB sites. While reading THIS THREAD, my wife calls me from in front of the house and says she can't back up the driveway. 1994 E320 Wagon, 240,000 miles. Any chance I can get those PDF's mentioned earlier in this thread.
I still can't believe I was reading this thread when my wife called and said she couldn't back up the driveway......what are the chances?
J. M. van Swaay
I still can't believe I was reading this thread when my wife called and said she couldn't back up the driveway......what are the chances?
J. M. van Swaay
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Well here they are so I don't have to keep PM'ing everyone 
http://www.ps2cho.net/downloads/phot...722_repair.pdf
http://www.ps2cho.net/downloads/phot...n%20repair.pdf
http://www.ps2cho.net/downloads/phot...722_repair.pdf
http://www.ps2cho.net/downloads/phot...n%20repair.pdf
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94 E500
Thanks a million!
I'm in the process of pre-project evaluation. Any guesses as to how many hours I should figure for tranny remove/reinstall, and for rebuild once it's out? I'm a pretty capable DIY'er, couple of engine rebuilds, but never a tranny. I might just remove it, and then take it to a shop for rebuild. On the other hand, I hate to pass on the opportunity to learn something new.
Thanks again for the PDF's
J. M. van Swaay
I'm in the process of pre-project evaluation. Any guesses as to how many hours I should figure for tranny remove/reinstall, and for rebuild once it's out? I'm a pretty capable DIY'er, couple of engine rebuilds, but never a tranny. I might just remove it, and then take it to a shop for rebuild. On the other hand, I hate to pass on the opportunity to learn something new.
Thanks again for the PDF's
J. M. van Swaay
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Take a look at my transmission DIY thread if you haven't already. Pretty straightforward if you have a transmission jack ($50 at harbor freight). Hardest part is reaching the top bolts on the bell housing. You need a ton of extensions and reach back from the propshaft to get it. Expect about....I would guess 5/6hours removal inc exhaust. A couple for rebuild then same reversed.
Thread Starter
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
Figured out the problems with the tranny:
Dead clutch and trashed two steels. I think the clutch failure somehow trashed the the spring retainer and destroyed the springs too.
my B3 clutches are dead too.
I think the K1 was serviced before (poorly) as there were some missing parts (shims and washers) on some of the pistons. also one of the pistons was installed backwards.
I have a full rebuild kit that included all the clutches, seals and gaskets. I need to find the steels I need, as well as the spring retainer and springs. I have gouges on LB 3 but I think I can just debur and re use.
Any idea what this part is? I have no reference in the manual and it was on my work table when I removed the valve body.
Disassembly was easier than expected. I pulled the motor and tranny out together. Took about 5 hours or so.
Dead clutch and trashed two steels. I think the clutch failure somehow trashed the the spring retainer and destroyed the springs too.
my B3 clutches are dead too.
I think the K1 was serviced before (poorly) as there were some missing parts (shims and washers) on some of the pistons. also one of the pistons was installed backwards.
I have a full rebuild kit that included all the clutches, seals and gaskets. I need to find the steels I need, as well as the spring retainer and springs. I have gouges on LB 3 but I think I can just debur and re use.
Any idea what this part is? I have no reference in the manual and it was on my work table when I removed the valve body.
Disassembly was easier than expected. I pulled the motor and tranny out together. Took about 5 hours or so.
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Oh wow those bands were completely bare!
I hope you realize you MUST do a complete rebuild of every component since you don't know what could have made its way back...
Told you dis-assembly wasn't too bad
That orange spring came out of the valve body?
If you want to re-use the b3 disks, get some sandpaper and rough em up as they are pretty scored in comparison to mine.
I hope you realize you MUST do a complete rebuild of every component since you don't know what could have made its way back...
Told you dis-assembly wasn't too bad
That orange spring came out of the valve body?
If you want to re-use the b3 disks, get some sandpaper and rough em up as they are pretty scored in comparison to mine.
Thread Starter
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
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Mercedes Benz
The scrape marks inside the B3 piston are the result of the worn B3 clutch. The piston travels too far and nudges against the K1 carrier. Remove the B3 piston from the oil pump housing and look at the small guiding pin at the back of it. It sometimes breaks off when the piston has traveled too far, in which case a new B3 piston is required.
Cheers,
Cheers,
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From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Do you mind listing what the bands and seals cost? My mechanic said most commercial rebuilds don't more than a couple of years. Maybe they just replace the seals. He convinced me to replace mine with a good used but now that transmission is slipping...
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 46
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
Thanks a million!
I'm in the process of pre-project evaluation. Any guesses as to how many hours I should figure for tranny remove/reinstall, and for rebuild once it's out? I'm a pretty capable DIY'er, couple of engine rebuilds, but never a tranny. I might just remove it, and then take it to a shop for rebuild. On the other hand, I hate to pass on the opportunity to learn something new.
Thanks again for the PDF's
J. M. van Swaay
I'm in the process of pre-project evaluation. Any guesses as to how many hours I should figure for tranny remove/reinstall, and for rebuild once it's out? I'm a pretty capable DIY'er, couple of engine rebuilds, but never a tranny. I might just remove it, and then take it to a shop for rebuild. On the other hand, I hate to pass on the opportunity to learn something new.
Thanks again for the PDF's
J. M. van Swaay
The disassembly is as easy as ps2cho stated. I think you should go it yourself and learn a new skill. I used the 722 repair pdf and it is very comprehensive so far. the tricky one is removing the B1(??the one on the passenger side front). We used the oil fitting to the radiator with a custom pry bar that i had fabricated to compress valves. Any stable pry bar will work. I recommend 2 people for this step. I will take picks on re assembly to better show the process.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/...ek+Google+Base
It looks complete, and is by far the cheapest I have seen that is complete. (no filter though). I will know more once I re assemble and let everyone know here if there is anything missing. So far i need some K1 Steels due to the wear, some springs and retainer. I am going to look for used ones.
If it is slipping definitely rebuild soon, that way you only need to replace seals and clutches. If metal gets around you may have more issues. I haven't found anything too traumatizing yet.
Last edited by 2wheelsoff; May 28, 2010 at 01:30 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
I have a little concern as the PO told me he had the transmission recently redone. All but the k2 clutches were worn. There was also a pin that was installed backwards in one of the pistons. Some of the seals look newer and some are rock hard. It was seeping from the rear cover, the rear output shaft seal and a couple of the piston seals. all minor, but if you are refreshing your trans wouldn't this get redone? the wagon has 175kmiles now and this will be the second major trans service. I am wondering if the mileage is higher than stated when I bought this about a year and a half ago.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 46
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From: Santa Monica
W124's; 92-2.6, 94-wagon
The scrape marks inside the B3 piston are the result of the worn B3 clutch. The piston travels too far and nudges against the K1 carrier. Remove the B3 piston from the oil pump housing and look at the small guiding pin at the back of it. It sometimes breaks off when the piston has traveled too far, in which case a new B3 piston is required.
Cheers,
Cheers,
