spetz

Can someone please tell me:

1. Are Sportline swaybars the same *** 500E swaybars?

2. Are Sedan and Coupe swaybars the same?

3. Will adding Sportline swaybars stiffen the ride?

4. Can these be bought new from the dealer, or is second hand the only way?

Thanks for any help

Saijin_Naib

1) Depends ("Sportline+" for the I6 cars is 300ce Cabrio front /500e rear)
2) Yes (fitments, thickness not really)
3) Yes
4) Yes

See here:
http://w124performance.com/docs/mb/W...4_swaybars.pdf

Thank AMGDave for that

spetz

What is Sports Undercarriage?

Thanks for the input and the link.
To be honest I am only interested if the ride comfort remains more or less unaffected

Saijin_Naib

I just had them installed on my coupe not long ago. They do not affect ride comfort at all as they do not affect the damping of the suspension, just lateral rigidity of the chassis.

It will prevent the car from flexing unnecessarily in corners and really stiffens the chassis with no degradation in ride comfort at all.

Sports Undercarriage = Sportline

spetz

How does the car handle after their install?
Was it a worthwhile upgrade?

Swaybars generally do make the ride stiffer, but I am hoping not noticably in this case.

Saijin_Naib

I didn't find the ride to be stiffer at all, just much more firm and level in cornering situations.
The car handles much better post-install, but still not ideal.

I find it to have been a worthwhile upgrade, yes.

RHW

The upgrade is worth it, minor trade off in "softness" is offset by the added comfort of going around turns flat.

The Sportline adds are hard to beat, just a tad expensive.

spetz

How do you guys see your handling in the 124?
I have to say with worn out 16 year old suspension + 62,000 miles + 15" 195 tires, the grip is really appalling. Feels pretty dangerous and anything over 140km/h (90mph) feels pretty unstable

RBYCC

If you're unstable over 90MPH, then swaybars alone will not help you...
The C124 with a tight suspension is extremely stable....
The grip with stock tires/suspension is more then adequate....

You need to go over your full suspension including steering, alignment, wheel balance...
A simple thing such as worn bushings will severely hamper handling/stability.

I've told you on this and other forums on many of your problems to start with the basics before you attempt to make any mods/improvements...

But what do I know !!!!!

spetz

RBYCC, actually I was already planning on leaving the swaybars for last, and this is only if after I change all bushes, springs and shocks the car still doesn't handle too well, then I would like to know my options.

At this stage though I do plan to do every single bush. I never drove the car new (I was too young at the time) so I don't know what to expect from it once all is replaced.

btw, when you say tight suspension, you mean new standard suspension or aftermarket?

RBYCC

By "tight suspension", I mean one that has all parts including bushings within spec and tolerance.
Applies to stock or modified suspension.
As new, and I speak first hand taking delivery of my 300CE in may 1988, the stock suspension handles extremely well.
Changing to a larger wheel tire ( 17" ) will improve cornering.
Larger sway bars will keep the car from leaning while cornering.
Lowering springs and performance shocks will enhance handling.
Technically there is a point of diminishing returns when lowering a car.
Too low with short shock travel will hamper handling especially on the street.

Ed A.

spetz

My original plan was all new bushes, Eibach Springs (30mm lower or so) and uncertain about shocks...
Even thinking about upgrading them at a later stage, after seeing how it goes on the standard ones (ie, to have an idea whether I should put new standard ones or sport ones)

RBYCC

The bushings are important.
You also want to check your motor, transmission and chassis mounts.
Any rubber part deteriorates over the years.

When it comes to selection of shocks with lowering springs I deviate from the mainstream.

All will lock step to what they consider undeniable truth that you must use a Bilstein Sport with any lowering spring.

Bilstein recommends the sport not for anything technical but more for product liability.
The trend is for younger less experienced with suspension design owners to want to "slam" their cars to a point that their is minimal clearance.

When you have this situation any shock with a moderate stroke may allow the springs to dismount on dips or rough road services.

If you do some research you'll discover that the majority of Porsche race suspension setups use Bilstein HD's if not using coil overs.

The HD's are identical to the Sports in all ways with the exception that the Sports have an internal stop that limits the shock travel about 1" less then the HD.

The additional travel of the HD negates rapid suspenion cycling on irregular road surfaces which will create bottoming out and lessens tire contact patch.

If you look at the C126 AMG cars with the lowered suspensions they run HD's.
Not even sure if Sports are available for the 126 Merc chassis.

Your choice on whether you want to a DTM car stance pose or you want to go around corners quickly and with a very comfortable ride.

I run H&R Sport lowering springs ( 1.5" drop F&R ) with Bilstein HD's and Sportline F&R bars.
I will be adding a Sparco front strut tower brace.
Suspension works, gives me the handling and weight transfer to keep the power to the ground.

How do I know...?
Look at the below pic....stock 3.07 open, non locking, differential, but yet equal grip and contact of both rear wheels...
This is only due to a balanced suspension which allows weight transfer...
Probably would have hopped a bit with Bilstein Sports...

The pulling to the left is as it shifts to second gear and I let off the accelerator.

spetz

So what shocks do you recommend then?
Ride comfort is paramount, as I don't view the C124 as a sports car, rather a comfortable cruiser, not to mention where I live the roads are fairly poor and there is no place to corner fast. At this stage though like I mentioned going at 90mph and fearing of how safe it is really isn't something you expect from a Mercedes.

I have very recently changed engine and transmission mounts.
What are chassis mounts? Is it subframe mounts?

Like I said though I plan a 100% overhaul of the suspension hopefully fairly soon, within a few months depending on cost of course.

How is the ride in your car? H&R springs are stiffer than Eibach I heard?

the_widebody

you should also check the tie bars on the rear suspention. when i first had my 124, i experianced a really weird unstability issue, evrey now and then, it was very disconcerting, and felt like the car was goimng to jump over the centeral reservation. turned out to be a worn tie link.

as for shocks, sachs are also worth considering, they do uprated fitment for the 190e 16v cars, wich also fits the 124, and is used by some as a 'sport' fitment. they are half the price of billies!

RBYCC

Honestly, if you live in an area with poor roads and want a comfortable cruiser, then don't deviate much from stock...

If you don't have roads that would benefit from an upgraded suspension that would give better cornering then why waste your money?

Any lowering with less compliant shock valving could create bottoming or harsh ride on irregular road surfaces.

The thicker sway bars only come into play in cornering by lessening any body lean.
They will not alter ride quality.

Most of the degradation in ride quality comes from deteriorating rubber parts in the suspension.

The stock suspension brought back to an "as new" condition will provide excellent handling and great ride quality.

Ed A.

( Chassis mounts = subframe mounts )

spetz

I plan on fitting 17" AMG monoblock rims, and the lowering is primarily for looks, as if I would leave the standard rims I wouldn't lower it either.
Is there a way to get it sitting a bit lower but not make it stiffer? I am unsure how much lower it needs to sit to get it looking "normal" with 17" rims. At this stage also the rear end seems higher than the front.
The roads are not good here, but they are nowhere near bad enough for the car to bottom out.

RBYCC

Lowering springs have a different spring rate then stock, so they will be "stiffer".
Any performance strut/shock regardless of travel will have different valving then stock.
Again a "stiffer" ride.
The swaybars will not "stiffen" your ride.
Tires are more important then you think as they are all not equal.
Look for ride quality and noise ratings when selecting tires.
The tire sidewall is the first shock absorber in the suspension system.
An aggressive tire will give an aggressive ride...
For street ride quality the Falken FK452 is a good choice.

spetz

Swaybars do stiffen the ride. I got some very thick solid Whiteline (from Australia) swaybars in another car and the ride was considerably stiffer. It was dead flat though. The car had Tein coilovers in it already.
I just assume that the sportline bars only marginally stiffen the ride, to the extent that it could be classified as not noticable.

I am unsure of what tires to get, but the car gets driven about 1,000 miles a year, so the softest ones possible will be fine as they will likely still last 10 years +

This is of course not anytime too soon, as suspension + amg rims + good tires + labor is probably well in excess of 5000 euros

Thank you for your input, I appreciate the help

ShoreBenz

Your a window shopper

spetz

No, it will all be done, but it will all be done in one go