Bigger Injectors for 320CE/m104 HFM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
Bigger Injectors for 320CE/m104 HFM
Hi Guys, i'm searching for bigger injectors plug and play for 320CE.
I would use E85 Fuel, no supercharger or anything else, so i need injectors which are 20-30% bigger.
Maybe you know injectors with this features.
Injectors from M111 E23 ML wont fit, right?
I would use E85 Fuel, no supercharger or anything else, so i need injectors which are 20-30% bigger.
Maybe you know injectors with this features.
Injectors from M111 E23 ML wont fit, right?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 134
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
Hi, i want to run E85 Fuel. You need 20-30% more fuel for same lambda.
And the easiest way to run this fuel without restrictions is using bigger injectors. So i dont need to remap the ecu - i got a perfect fuel setup (like mercedes did it).
Without bigger injectors and remap the ecu its on the "adjusting limit" (couldnt enrich more) and the engine didnt run as well as with bigger injectors.
At WOT the engine is running only at its engine map, fix engine parameters depostied in the ecu, no lambda control etc, so its to lean without changing ecu or bigger injectors. This feature sometimes called "open loop".
And the easiest way to run this fuel without restrictions is using bigger injectors. So i dont need to remap the ecu - i got a perfect fuel setup (like mercedes did it).
Without bigger injectors and remap the ecu its on the "adjusting limit" (couldnt enrich more) and the engine didnt run as well as with bigger injectors.
At WOT the engine is running only at its engine map, fix engine parameters depostied in the ecu, no lambda control etc, so its to lean without changing ecu or bigger injectors. This feature sometimes called "open loop".
Last edited by Phil_W; Oct 11, 2012 at 09:33 AM.
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Joined: May 2005
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Apologies..missed the E85...
Bigger injectors will help fuel delivery, but difficult to assure reliable performance on an engine not designed to run on E85...
I'd be more concerned about long term corrosive action on aluminum and seals...
Are you required by law to run E85?
Your stock injectors are probably Bosch and flow 210-250CC.
The same body size injector is used in by many manufacturers...
For instance the Merc 55K uses a slightly shorter injector but will fit the M104 and flows about 420CC which is double.
You'll probably need to install a larger fuel pump to keep up with the requirements of the increased injector flow.
Bigger injectors will help fuel delivery, but difficult to assure reliable performance on an engine not designed to run on E85...
I'd be more concerned about long term corrosive action on aluminum and seals...
Are you required by law to run E85?
Your stock injectors are probably Bosch and flow 210-250CC.
The same body size injector is used in by many manufacturers...
For instance the Merc 55K uses a slightly shorter injector but will fit the M104 and flows about 420CC which is double.
You'll probably need to install a larger fuel pump to keep up with the requirements of the increased injector flow.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 837
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Any bosch style injector with a 14mm o-ring will work. There are two different lengths and the m104 uses the longer ones 63.5mm o-ring to o-ring. The factory injectors are around 19lb injectors. Never flow tested them but did the math on them really quick once.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 134
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
Hi,
here in my country its okay using E85 (I can buy it at gas stations).
Many people talk about the corrosive properties of E85, but only a few run it.
I've used it many kilometres in my sold 190E (everyday-car) without any problems. The adjustment wasnt still perfect, cause the car got KE Jetronic and i only enrich it with cheating the coolant temperatur sensor without any lambdacontroller.
I think that i dont need a new fuel pump; because the injectors are only 20% bigger, if we start from 200cc it would be 240cc, the fuel pressure is still like OEM. Isnt it? Thats only my assessment, but i've never tested it. Maybe you know more facts.
I thank you both for the reply, it helps me very well.
here in my country its okay using E85 (I can buy it at gas stations).
Many people talk about the corrosive properties of E85, but only a few run it.
I've used it many kilometres in my sold 190E (everyday-car) without any problems. The adjustment wasnt still perfect, cause the car got KE Jetronic and i only enrich it with cheating the coolant temperatur sensor without any lambdacontroller.
I think that i dont need a new fuel pump; because the injectors are only 20% bigger, if we start from 200cc it would be 240cc, the fuel pressure is still like OEM. Isnt it? Thats only my assessment, but i've never tested it. Maybe you know more facts.
I thank you both for the reply, it helps me very well.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
Likes: 17
From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Hi,
here in my country its okay using E85 (I can buy it at gas stations).
Many people talk about the corrosive properties of E85, but only a few run it.
I've used it many kilometres in my sold 190E (everyday-car) without any problems. The adjustment wasnt still perfect, cause the car got KE Jetronic and i only enrich it with cheating the coolant temperatur sensor without any lambdacontroller.
I think that i dont need a new fuel pump; because the injectors are only 20% bigger, if we start from 200cc it would be 240cc, the fuel pressure is still like OEM. Isnt it? Thats only my assessment, but i've never tested it. Maybe you know more facts.
I thank you both for the reply, it helps me very well.
here in my country its okay using E85 (I can buy it at gas stations).
Many people talk about the corrosive properties of E85, but only a few run it.
I've used it many kilometres in my sold 190E (everyday-car) without any problems. The adjustment wasnt still perfect, cause the car got KE Jetronic and i only enrich it with cheating the coolant temperatur sensor without any lambdacontroller.
I think that i dont need a new fuel pump; because the injectors are only 20% bigger, if we start from 200cc it would be 240cc, the fuel pressure is still like OEM. Isnt it? Thats only my assessment, but i've never tested it. Maybe you know more facts.
I thank you both for the reply, it helps me very well.
Start with the injectors, see the result and if not as you desire then move to the next link in the fuel supply chain...
Fortunately, at least for now the typical blend in the USA is E10...
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
Yes, thats what i think too. 
Here in germany we use e10 since 2 years i think.
And E5 since many years. But some gas-stations got E85 for half of the price.
Maybe you got experience-results for Injectors from another Car who are 20% bigger than the stock ones?
Here in germany we use e10 since 2 years i think.
And E5 since many years. But some gas-stations got E85 for half of the price.
Maybe you got experience-results for Injectors from another Car who are 20% bigger than the stock ones?
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Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 837
Likes: 25
From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Almost all n/a injectors in Mercedes are 19-21lbs. Atleast in the U.S. You can buy standard bosch injectors that will fit in many flow rates. Check Five-O motorsports. You could also just increase the fuel pressure to get the desired flow rate. The stock pumps and injectors can easily handle 90 psi fuel pressure.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 134
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
How can i increase the fuel pressure, with the oem fuelpressure regulator?
But is here no one who can tell me usable injectors with 250cc +-10cc?
But is here no one who can tell me usable injectors with 250cc +-10cc?
Last edited by Phil_W; Nov 18, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 134
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From: Germany, Neuburg
C32 AMG
Hi Guys, thanks for the answers.
Today i received my adjustable fuel pressure regulator, so I changed it with the original regulator. With 60% E85 und 40% E5, the car goes like Super E5 (5% alc).
Before i changed with the adjustable regulator, the car sucked, misfire and no power (60/40).
If the gas is empty, I will use E85 only.
I cant say what pressure I adjusted, cause I havent a fuel pressure gauge.
Injectors: I searched around, the Injectors from BMW M5 (s38) are ca. 250cc. And I think those could be used. Also the the 2,8l from VW VR6 Engine are 250cc. Dont know if they would fit, but I think so.
If I cant enrich the afr by the FPR, the next step I do is changing my injectors.
Today i received my adjustable fuel pressure regulator, so I changed it with the original regulator. With 60% E85 und 40% E5, the car goes like Super E5 (5% alc).
Before i changed with the adjustable regulator, the car sucked, misfire and no power (60/40).
If the gas is empty, I will use E85 only.
I cant say what pressure I adjusted, cause I havent a fuel pressure gauge.
Injectors: I searched around, the Injectors from BMW M5 (s38) are ca. 250cc. And I think those could be used. Also the the 2,8l from VW VR6 Engine are 250cc. Dont know if they would fit, but I think so.
If I cant enrich the afr by the FPR, the next step I do is changing my injectors.
