neumann

Hi,

I am looking at a 1994 E320. Here are the details

smoke silver, beige leather
67,000 miles
memory seats
4 spped automatic
books are complete to last scheduled service
WDBEA32E8RC078470 vin number

I had a pre-purchase inspection from a third party and they found it needs:

cam cover gasket has a slight leak at front lip seal
front and rear pads show 10% left on front and 60% left on rear
oil cooler line showed some seepage
front tires are marginal, suggested replacement.
I will replace all four.
coolant was a little low, suggested a cooling system pressure test

Inspection shop stated the car was in fine shape, just a few minor maintenance issues as stated above.

The dealer is asking $15,700. Is this a fair price? They balked at my first offer of $15,000 out the door.


Thanks in advance

mbtech208

Buy it! It sounds like a very clean, well-maintained car. You shouldn't have many problems with it at all.

Subman

Sounds like a deal and a half, pick that car up now!!!!

suginami

I ran the Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds.com market values, and the price ($15,700) seems in line with full 'clean' book value.

I wouldn't call it bargain, but with the low mileage, it's probably worth buying.

I would check to see if the wiring harness has been replaced. They were bad from 93-95 on these cars. If it hasn't been replaced, I would do it immediately. Budget $800 for parts and labor.

A Mercedes technician will know what you are talking about if you ask him to check the engine wiring harness.

mbtech208

The HFM harness becomes brittle over the years, and they do have a reputation for breaking on older 104 engines. I wouldn't say its a priority though, not with just 67,000 miles on the car. I'd be more concerned with making sure the head gasket is not leaking.

neumann

Looks like I will be buying it for $15,700 About $17,000 after taxes, tag and title.

I am just having one more test tomorrow...a coolant pressure test to check for leaks and such. The pre purchase inspection showed slightly low coolant and they suggested the test. For $30 it will give me the piece of mind.

I have the car in my driveway tonight and will be taking it in tomorrow morning for the test. If it checks out I will be buying. I also ran a carfax this evening and everything was fine. I also have a friend in the insurance biz and he ran the vin through their system and it showed no reported accidents or claims

I spoke with the dealers service tech and I think he told me I have a 103 series 3.2 double overhead cam engine. Sound correct? He said their was a mid year vin number split and the previous cars had single overhead cam engines.

I asked him about the head gasket issues associated with the E3 series engines and he said they all tend to leak somewhat at the right rear corner. My pre purchase inspection did not show any sign of weepage at that location


I'll ask tomorrow about the harness when I have the test performed at the independent shop (Herndons in Jacksonville, FL).
It looks good from a quick visual inspection.

Here is some info from the yellow tag on the chassis in the engine bay on pass front area...

engine family RMB 3.2 VJGFFA
evap family RMB 1030CYM01
3199 CC

right side sticker has E320
I24 584 46 46 CODE 494+804

Does this info provide any definitive answers?

I am new to Mercedes family but I have vast knowledge about Miata's They have been all I have driven since 1996. I can tear down a Miata to the last bolt and rebuild it to give you a quick background on my mechanical skills.

I'll probably do the front brakes next week. I can buy OE parts from the selling dealer for 20% off list. They quoted front brake pads part number 002 420 1520 at $78 and the two front sensors at $3.70 each. That is before the 20% discount. Good prices on parts?


I look forward to Mercedes ownership

neumann

BTW, someone asked about the cooler hose weepage I mentioned earlier. I just checked the pre purchase report and it stated it was a transmission cooler hose. Easy access for repair? Sounds like a $30 or so part, correct? Herndons quoted $100 to fix.

Any ideas on cam cover gasket prices and anything I should keep in mind when replacing it?

suginami

Wiring harness problems have nothing to do with mileage.

The insulation on the wires breaks down due to heat and age.

I have read two reasons for this problems on other sites:

1. MB changed the insulation to prevent rodents from eating the wires.
2. MB changed the insulation to make it more recyclable.

In any event, the insulation breaks down in the car.

I would not wait to replace it. It will be very obvious if its original. The insulation will crumble in your hands and look like its 200 years old.

When this happens, the wires short out causing random and meaningless engine fault codes, misfiring, uneven idle, and have read many cases of burned out control modules.

There is a TSB relating to the wiring harness problem, but not a recall.

Some dealers do goodwill repairs, but generally limit it to cars under 120,000 miles.

suginami

You have an M104 engine, not an M103 engine.

The 300 CE's had an early version of the M104 engine, it had dual overhead cams, but not variable valve timing (on the intake cam), and it was 3.0 liters, not 3.2.

The 1993 300E was the first year of the 3.2 liter M104 engine, but MB didn't change the name of this model to E320 as they should have. The name changed to E320 in 1994, and 1995 was the last year of the W124 body style. 1993 300E, 1994 E320, and 1995 E320's share the same chasis #, engine #, and transmission.

This M104 engine was used from 93-95 in the 300E / 300CE / E320 W124 chasis, from 94-97 in the W202 (C280), from 96-97 in the W210 chasis (current E320), and in the entire run of the W140 chasis until its end in 1999 (S320).

In 1998 MB went to a V6 in the E320 and C280, but continued to use the inline 6 cylinder M104 engine in the S320 (W140 chasis) until 1999.

neumann

Thanks for the detailed info. I'll try to get confirmation on the harness tomorrow from Herndons's. I'll even call a "Mercedes" dealer with the vin and hopefully they can give me a detailed service history of what has been replaced under warranty and such. Like I mentioned it looks good from a quick visual and the insulation does not flake or break off to the touch.

neumann

I've been doing further esearch this evening and I do believe I have the 104 as you have stated. I must have misunderstood what the service manager was saying. It will take me a few days to get the "Mercedes" jargon and classifications down pat

Thanks again for all the info

suginami

Don't worry. Give yourself a couple of weeks and you'll have the lingo down.

Engines always start with M, as in M103, M104, M119, M110, etc.

Chasis always start with W, as in W124 (your body style), W201 (190 series), W202 (C-class), W210 (current E class), W140 (S class in from 92-99), W126 (81-91 S class), W116 (73-80 S class), etc.

Another great forum is the one at:

www.mercedesshop.com

It's also a great place to buy parts.

neumann

We bought it

Signed the papers this afternoon. I had the coolant system pressure checked this morning, all was well and I paid them to do a front brake job as well. The selling dealership charged $150 for new pads and sensors installed. Not the best price in town but I figured I would start with good brakes

suginami

Congratulations on the purchase! You're going to love these cars. I think they're better than the current E-class.

About the wiring harness, the archives on the above posted forum are full of people with 93-95 cars with the M104 engine (E320 and C280) that have faulty wiring harnesses, and other damage resulted.

Letting them go and testing your luck can be risky.

The following was posted today regarding a 95 C280:

"mb service advisor says that in all probability the wire harness shorted because of faulty insulation and took out a module and the throttle actuator with it. all said $4000. after really pushing the goodwill issue (i tried to keep my cool), the official word is: MB has no goodwill towards a seven year old car and it's second owner. I would imagine that i have no legal case. The really sad part is that i still love my benz."

Letting a $550 part go can cause a huge amount of problems.

If it's been fixed (like mine was), consider yourself lucky.

If not, do it. Do it now. Just like the Nike commercial.

suginami

Also, it's critical to follow the maintenance on these cars.

Everything is spelled out in your maintenance booklet, and everything is done on mileage, except for two items which are done on time: brake fluid and coolant replacement. These two items don't show up on any scheduled service, but are listed as reminders according to time.

Brake fluid is to be changed every two years.

Check out this great article on why you should your brake fluid anyway:

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/bf/bf40142.htm

Coolant is to be changed every three years.

Also, it is advised to only use MB coolant, which is orange, not green.

Further, only use factory Bosch copper core spark plugs, non-resistor plugs, and change every 30,000 miles. Do not use platinum plugs! These cars were not designed to run on platinum plugs, and will make your car run worse.

Further, your engine uses 3 coil wires and 3 spark plug wires. Original wires are solid copper, not silicone / copper blend, and last a long, long time. They rarely, if ever, wear out. If your tech wants to change your wires, don't let him. The ends or "boots" of the wires are usually bad, and they are .75 cents each. The resistance is in the boot, just like Porsche or VW engines. If your engine misfires or develops a miss, always check the ends first.

suginami

Fault codes for low EGR flow are very common with these OBD-I M104 engines. The egr plugged pipe is infamous on 104s, but you should keep in mind that there is also an up-graded EGR valve to replace an earlier one [ sticking was the prob w/original]. There is a TSB on it. Before you replace the EGR valve, check to see if the hot inlet pipe to the intake manifold is carboned up or not.
The simple test for blockage is to apply hand vac, [ about 15"]
to the egr at idle and watch for rough idle and egr Snap back when releasing vac. Pipe block will show no idle difference
[Remember , the egr is not energized at idle. So some rough idle problems can be a stuck egr].

Check out this article:

http://www.continentalimports.com/ser_ic20134.html

The fix and pictures for a blocked egr port are at the end of the article.

My car had this fault code (engine fault code 5), and my egr port was completely blocked. A week later, the same code came back up, so I had to replace the EGR valve with the updated part.

neumann

I called the Mercedes dealer in twon "Brumos" and ask the service dept to fax over a vehicle master inquiry....


at 42,974 miles there is an entry for engine harness short circuit and something about Good Will, does not state harness replacemnet but I would assume it was replaced and I am making an assumption that the head gasket was replaced based on the 2 entries stated below

at 34,686 miles there is an entry for cylinder head leaking *** DO NOT USE MBUSA*** radial seal ring, primary pump

at 27,189 miles cylinder head gasket oil loss, looks like they tried something here, probably using an OEM gasket and then replaced it again at 34,686 miles with an aftermarket gasket

Looks to me like the major issues with the 104 series have been addressed with this car

I am going to call the dealer who serviced the car for about 90% of the time in West Palm Beach (Gulfstream Merecedes) and ask some detailed questions. I called them this morning for the info but they emphatically stated they would not give out info. to anyone other than the current owner. I made my case but they still refused until I can fax proof of ownership and then they will release the info to me

suginami

You might find this overwhelming, but I've also noticed on many MB boards that in addition to fault code '5', fault code '26' is a surprisingly common occurence. This refers to a problem in the upshift delay valve, which is controlled by vacum.

Basically, it is a smog-related device that keeps your car from shifting from 1st to 2nd gear when cold so that the catylitic converter warms up quickly.

It can be replaced easily by the DIY'er. It is a switch that is attached to the firewall behind the master cylinder. It has a green (vacum) wire, and a black (power) wire going to it. The green line goes to the transmission. The part may be faulty or the vacum line may be plugged. It is a very cheap fix. The part is about $20, and the vacum line may be unplugged.

The up-shift delay valve was also improved, along with the cable. A mal-adjusted cable can also trip the code #26. Best to check vac. procedures at the sw/over valve first, etc.

Remember, if your check engine light comes on, don't think your car will blow up. The check engine light only trips for emission related faults - O2 sensors, EGR valves, upshift delay valve, yada yada yada. I've read there are about 20-something different systems that can trip this light.

Of course, a bad engine wiring harness will cause the check engine light to trip like crazy.

suginami

Yep, I would gather your engine wiring harness has been replaced. You're very lucky.

These engines leak oil at the right rear of the head gasket, and at the U-shaped area where the timing chain cover seals at the head.

MB has changed the head gasket many times, and hopefully you got the one that doesn't leak. If it does start leaking, let it go until it gets real bad.

Then when you do replace it, do the whole head job - replace valve guides and seals, regrind the valves if necessary, and you're good for another 200,000 miles or so. The bottom ends of these engines are said to never wear out. All of the posts that I've read made by techs said they've never seen a worn-out bottem end - good for 1,000,000 miles. A complete head job is about $2,000. May sound like a lot, but a lot cheaper that buying another used car.

suginami

Regarding records, maintenance and regular repair records stay with the owner, not the car. If you want the records from the previous owner, he'll have to request it for you.

The only records that can be made available to you are the ones that you already have - any work done under warranty, and recall repairs.