Farewell: Making the Jump: MB to Lexus
08-17-2005, 11:31 PM
#103
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W211 E55 AMG
dang.. so many haters about switching from german--> japanese
well.. one thing for sure.. the acceleration is faster and a very quiet and smooth ride.
i don't like how japanese cars handle, and brake.. but hey he's made a very nice upgrade.
1. less problems
2. cost less to fix
well.. one thing for sure.. the acceleration is faster and a very quiet and smooth ride.
i don't like how japanese cars handle, and brake.. but hey he's made a very nice upgrade.
1. less problems
2. cost less to fix
08-30-2005, 04:40 PM
#104
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bike
Originally Posted by rjm
Well, it's been great, but I finally made the plunge. Bought a new E-430 in January, 2001 and it has been a great car. Had the usual suspension parts, seat rails and mounts, radio failure, and other minor problems, but overall, it has been a great car. Last week after exiting the freeway and stopping at a stop sign, the car would only go in 1st gear. Took it to the dealer in "limp-home" mode and had the Transmission Control Module and Harness changed. A transmission seal had leaked into the harness, shorting out the TCM. The harness had to be shipped from Germany. After a week in the shop, the final bill was $3000, and the car was 30 days out of warranty. Luckily I had purchased the Starmark Extended Warranty when the car was new, so the cost was ZERO. I got to looking at the maintenance schedule. Upcoming B Inspection would cost $500, transmission flush...$300, would need a new brake job ($800) soon, a new fuel filter at $200, and who knows what else, so decided it would be a good time to trade. Drove the E-350, E-500, and the E-350 ADI (what's with the analog clock in the instrument cluster, the funky center armrest, and the rock-hard seats?)....then I drove the Lexus LS-430. Everything that is optional on the Mercedes is standard on the Lexus and the Lexus cost much less....and the Lexus has been #1 in quality for the past 9 years according to J.D. Powers. MB quality has plummeted since the merge with Chrysler and is now rated just above Suzuki, Daewoo, Isuzu, and Kia....so it was a no-brainer. Cashed in my MB Extended Warranty (got 88% of purchase price refunded) and traded for a new Lexus LS-430 yesterday. I am delighted with this car. My only experience with MB is with the E-430 but the Lexus is everything the MB SHOULD have been. So farewell to all the great guys and gals on the W210 group...best of luck to everyone. Hopefully Mercedes will see a fast turnaround in quality with the new CEO (from Chrysler of course) and I'll be back in a few years with a new MB. If not, I'll stick with my Lexus and BMW. Best of luck to all, and thanks to all for the great discussions and information that I have received from this group.
08-31-2005, 10:10 AM
#105
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What a nice car. I've sat in the Lexus LS430. My friend bought one too recently. He used to drive an ES330 and has a W124 E220 back home.
He was considering the '05 E500 too but he drove the Lexus (LS430 and the RX400h) and immediately decided that the E500 was not worth his money.
Personally, I would probably pick the E500 just because: I'm a mercedes snob.
I love the LS' sound system, AC (toyota ac is good), seats, looks, wood trim, subtlety. Just about everything about the car.
One day I'll mature and appreciate the Lexus LS for what it is, a very capable car.
and yes, BMW drivers make the same remarks about us MB guys (boring, soul-less, slow cars for old people)
Enjoy the Lexus! I'm going with my friend to pick his up. I can't wait...
That's going to be one long lunch break hehe.
He was considering the '05 E500 too but he drove the Lexus (LS430 and the RX400h) and immediately decided that the E500 was not worth his money.
Personally, I would probably pick the E500 just because: I'm a mercedes snob.
I love the LS' sound system, AC (toyota ac is good), seats, looks, wood trim, subtlety. Just about everything about the car.
One day I'll mature and appreciate the Lexus LS for what it is, a very capable car.
and yes, BMW drivers make the same remarks about us MB guys (boring, soul-less, slow cars for old people)
Enjoy the Lexus! I'm going with my friend to pick his up. I can't wait...
That's going to be one long lunch break hehe.
08-31-2005, 10:26 AM
#106
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Without question, the lexus interior is the best of class. When I was deciding between an e430 and the LS430, waht swayed me to mercedes was the performance aspects. It has a much better shifting manumatic transmission and what felt like a more responsive engine. The other thing I didn't like about the lexus was its deadened steering and suspension. If mercedes was 3/4's as reliable as a lexus they would rule once again, but I'm not holding out much hope of that happening in the next 5 years 
08-31-2005, 10:54 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
So I guess my observation about the re-cycled Camry door handle didn't sink in. 
Go buy your Toyota's and be happy with your superior handling and driving cars..
Go buy your Toyota's and be happy with your superior handling and driving cars..
08-31-2005, 10:58 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by endy
dang.. so many haters about switching from german--> japanese
well.. one thing for sure.. the acceleration is faster and a very quiet and smooth ride.
i don't like how japanese cars handle, and brake.. but hey he's made a very nice upgrade.
well.. one thing for sure.. the acceleration is faster and a very quiet and smooth ride.
i don't like how japanese cars handle, and brake.. but hey he's made a very nice upgrade.
E500 vs. LS430.. you do the comparisons, and go drive the two.
The Lexus is a modern day Cadi.. the Benz is the best blend of handling and luxury on the market.
But, if you're going to nickel and dime the repairs, stick with the Toyota.
08-31-2005, 11:07 AM
#109
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Originally Posted by CE750
They don't handle as well, don't accelerate as fast, and don't brake as well.
Take a valium and relax.....and enjoy the discussion. Maybe you will learn something.
Last edited by rjm; 08-31-2005 at 11:11 AM.
08-31-2005, 11:11 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
That is TOTAL AND PURE HORSE-HOCKEY! I have owned and driven both and in my experience the Lexus comes out on top in EVERY category.
Take a valium and relax.....and enjoy the discussion. Maybe you will learn something.
Take a valium and relax.....and enjoy the discussion. Maybe you will learn something.
Skidpad on the E500 is .85.. what's the skid pad on the LS?
The only place the Lexus is on top... is the reliability... wooptie doo.. I can get a Honda for that.
08-31-2005, 11:14 AM
#111
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Originally Posted by CE750
0-60 on the E500 is 5.9... what's the number (Road & Track) on the LS?
Skidpad on the E500 is .85.. what's the skid pad on the LS?
The only place the Lexus is on top... is the reliability... wooptie doo.. I can get a Honda for that.
Skidpad on the E500 is .85.. what's the skid pad on the LS?
The only place the Lexus is on top... is the reliability... wooptie doo.. I can get a Honda for that.
Don't know the skidpad numbers...maybe you can look it up.
I generally don't go sliding around corners anymore and haven't since I was about 16 years old.
08-31-2005, 11:19 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
I stand corrected... Motor Trend got 5.8 on the E500, and the published numbers I saw on the LS were 6.3... The E500 also has a .27 drag.. therefore a faster top speed. I can go on.. but a google search will confirm all of what I'm saying.
08-31-2005, 11:20 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
I generally don't go sliding around corners anymore and haven't since I was about 16 years old.
btw.. the GS430 (sportier version) got a .80 skid pad result..
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102927
Heck, my 16" wheels CDI gets .83
Last edited by CE750; 08-31-2005 at 11:26 AM.
08-31-2005, 11:43 AM
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"'05 Mercedes Benz 320CDI - Xenon, HK, Park Assist, NAV, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package"
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
08-31-2005, 11:46 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
"'05 Mercedes Benz 320CDI - Xenon, HK, Park Assist, NAV, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package"
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Also, I didn't by a CDI for milage (I could get a Honda for that).. I did it because for me it's totally cool to have a diesel I-6 with 400 ft/lb torque!
08-31-2005, 11:52 AM
#117
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Originally Posted by rjm
"'05 Mercedes Benz 320CDI - Xenon, HK, Park Assist, NAV, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package"
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
The normal A and B services at my dealer run between $400 and $500. The diesel is twice that?? Oh my!
To be fair, that engine does not clank. I drove one hard at the MB invite event and it was quite impressive.
08-31-2005, 12:03 PM
#118
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
RJM
There's no doubt that Lexus is the most reliable, and for luxury car, you probably get the most car for the money with Lexus/Acura. Even hardcore Mercedes/BMW fan agree with these.
However, most automobile publications, and to lot of people out there, the new E W211 class combine the best of styling and handling. More over, most have complained that Lexus (both the LS and new GS) lack soul in both styling and handling. To each his own, you can say your new LS look and drive much better than any luxury sedan out there, and that magazine writers don't know what they're talking about. But remmember, at the end, it's the article from these magazine that have more weight than how do you "feel" about the car. I have copy of every major car magazines out there, and there're plenty of article that compare Lexus/Mercedes/Audi/BMW. If you're in doubt, let me know, I can send you copies.
And have you driven the new E class CDI ? Because if you did, you wouldn't comment about the "clanking diesel". It's actutally more quiet than the gasoline engine !!. And the torque pull is equivelent to the best V12 out there: available at any rpm, a lot !!. Drive one, you'll see what I mean. One thing that most Japanese luxury car still trying to achive is torque at low rpm, since that define driving experience (accelerating on the roll, not rag race at red line). The only one that get close to that goal is the Infinity M45.
Given what happened to your W210, most people would see your point in switching brand. I would probably do the same. But what's the point of going back and trash Mercedes. Imagine this, a guy breaks up w/ his gf, but instead of moving on, he still hang out at her friend gathering, bad mouth her and praise about his new girl. How classy is that ?
Leave in style, will yea ?
There's no doubt that Lexus is the most reliable, and for luxury car, you probably get the most car for the money with Lexus/Acura. Even hardcore Mercedes/BMW fan agree with these.
However, most automobile publications, and to lot of people out there, the new E W211 class combine the best of styling and handling. More over, most have complained that Lexus (both the LS and new GS) lack soul in both styling and handling. To each his own, you can say your new LS look and drive much better than any luxury sedan out there, and that magazine writers don't know what they're talking about. But remmember, at the end, it's the article from these magazine that have more weight than how do you "feel" about the car. I have copy of every major car magazines out there, and there're plenty of article that compare Lexus/Mercedes/Audi/BMW. If you're in doubt, let me know, I can send you copies.
And have you driven the new E class CDI ? Because if you did, you wouldn't comment about the "clanking diesel". It's actutally more quiet than the gasoline engine !!. And the torque pull is equivelent to the best V12 out there: available at any rpm, a lot !!. Drive one, you'll see what I mean. One thing that most Japanese luxury car still trying to achive is torque at low rpm, since that define driving experience (accelerating on the roll, not rag race at red line). The only one that get close to that goal is the Infinity M45.
Given what happened to your W210, most people would see your point in switching brand. I would probably do the same. But what's the point of going back and trash Mercedes. Imagine this, a guy breaks up w/ his gf, but instead of moving on, he still hang out at her friend gathering, bad mouth her and praise about his new girl. How classy is that ?
Leave in style, will yea ?
Originally Posted by rjm
"'05 Mercedes Benz 320CDI - Xenon, HK, Park Assist, NAV, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package"
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Just a note...what did you have to pay for those options (Xenon, Park Assist, Folding Mirrors, Sunroof Package)....they all come STANDARD on the LS-430.
And did you check on the cost of the A and B Inspections on the CDI before you bought it? I did when I test drove it, and even the MB salesman said the increased costs of the periodic inspections (almost double those for the gasoline engines) pretty well negated the increased fuel mileage you get with the clanking diesel. To each his own.
Last edited by zam2000; 08-31-2005 at 12:06 PM.
08-31-2005, 12:06 PM
#119
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by RBrenton88
The normal A and B services at my dealer run between $400 and $500. The diesel is twice that?? Oh my!
To be fair, that engine does not clank. I drove one hard at the MB invite event and it was quite impressive.
To be fair, that engine does not clank. I drove one hard at the MB invite event and it was quite impressive.
Just got off the Phone with Schumacher MB, spoke to Service Manager (Aurel) - note: Schumacher is the pricey guy in the Scottsdale area
Prices are OFFICIALLY same as on E320/E350.. or.
A) $249.80
B) $399.25 (includes wiper blades)
Basic Oil: $95 (Mobil 1 Delvac)
rjm.. tell your dealer to drop the crack pipe..
08-31-2005, 02:21 PM
#120
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Originally Posted by CE750
0-60 on the E500 is 5.9... what's the number (Road & Track) on the LS?
Skidpad on the E500 is .85.. what's the skid pad on the LS?
The only place the Lexus is on top... is the reliability... wooptie doo.. I can get a Honda for that.
Skidpad on the E500 is .85.. what's the skid pad on the LS?
The only place the Lexus is on top... is the reliability... wooptie doo.. I can get a Honda for that.
08-31-2005, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by zam2000
RJM... And have you driven the new E class CDI ? Because if you did, you wouldn't comment about the "clanking diesel". It's actutally more quiet than the gasoline engine !!.
Given what happened to your W210, most people would see your point in switching brand. I would probably do the same. But what's the point of going back and trash Mercedes. Imagine this, a guy breaks up w/ his gf, but instead of moving on, he still hang out at her friend gathering, bad mouth her and praise about his new girl. How classy is that ?
Given what happened to your W210, most people would see your point in switching brand. I would probably do the same. But what's the point of going back and trash Mercedes. Imagine this, a guy breaks up w/ his gf, but instead of moving on, he still hang out at her friend gathering, bad mouth her and praise about his new girl. How classy is that ?
Your choice is obviously different, and that's why they make so many brands. Also, if you had read the entire thread, you would find that if Mercedes ever again makes a quality product, I will be the first in line to consider it. In the meantime, is it alright with you if I monitor this forum for any signs of improvement??
08-31-2005, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rjm
If you had read the 1st post in this thread you would see that, first of all, I have driven the CDI extensively and have also researched it extensively. It is a fine car, just not for me. The engine is remarkably quiet from the passenger compartment, but pull up next to one at a stoplight and all you hear is a clanking diesel. Secondly, if you had read all the messages in the thread, you would see I am not trashing Mercedes. I enjoyed mine very much...it just spent too much time in the shop for a totally wonderful experience...and given the decreasing quality of Mercedes (attested to by every reliable source out there) I did not feel enthused about buying another car that comes out with a monthly list of recalls to fix problems that should never have been there in the first place.. I drove and compared all the nicer automobiles out there, and came to the conclusion after driving all of them and considering what you get for the money, my choice was easily the Lexus.
Your choice is obviously different, and that's why they make so many brands. Also, if you had read the entire thread, you would find that if Mercedes ever again makes a quality product, I will be the first in line to consider it. In the meantime, is it alright with you if I monitor this forum for any signs of improvement??
Your choice is obviously different, and that's why they make so many brands. Also, if you had read the entire thread, you would find that if Mercedes ever again makes a quality product, I will be the first in line to consider it. In the meantime, is it alright with you if I monitor this forum for any signs of improvement??
I for one cannot argue with that. Personally I'd still rather drive the mercedes, but I wish they could make them at least as reliable as a gm for 10's of thousands less. Far too often we act as "apologists" for this brand, and frankly it's not warranted. It's a great brand that has incredible engineering, but through some act of bad management has let its quality and reliability deteriorate to intolerable levels. We should all be screaming at them to fix these problems, not shoot the occasional messenger. I wish you luck with your new car.
If we ran our business this way, we'd deserve to hear about it too
08-31-2005, 06:35 PM
#124
LS430 is around high 5's. It bests the S500.
Skidpad from C&D about two years back was .73 on winter tires.
Of course, I'm running Dunlop 9000's on mine, from the dealer
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Styling is subjective.
We've come to the conclusion that the Lexus is reliable.
Skidpad from C&D about two years back was .73 on winter tires.
Of course, I'm running Dunlop 9000's on mine, from the dealer
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Styling is subjective.
We've come to the conclusion that the Lexus is reliable.
08-31-2005, 07:34 PM
#125
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
LS430 is around high 5's. It bests the S500.
Skidpad from C&D about two years back was .73 on winter tires.
Of course, I'm running Dunlop 9000's on mine, from the dealer
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Styling is subjective.
We've come to the conclusion that the Lexus is reliable.
Skidpad from C&D about two years back was .73 on winter tires.
Of course, I'm running Dunlop 9000's on mine, from the dealer
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Styling is subjective.
We've come to the conclusion that the Lexus is reliable.
but the GS430 does it in 6.3.. and the numbers I got on the LS were 6.4 (I posted links above)... I've seen numbers as low as 5.8 on the E500... as for the S... it's also quite a bit heavier..
Also, keep in mind the Lexus is geared for US driving so it's 0-60 will be biased against higher top speed and high performance passing speeds.. The E500 is designed to drive at 100+ mph and pass at those speed.. it's top speed is in excess of 160 (The CDI is 149!!)... these things may not matter to the US market.. but they are critical to evaluating the car as a whole.
