jnash

Can someone please help me diagnose my 00 E430 please?
A/C gauge on low side shows Freon in normal range so no loss of Freon.
EC light is NOT on
2 days, barely cool air blowing in cabin and today no cool air.
A/C compressor now sounds like it isolating on/off every few seconds (clutch is not disengaging) and can be observed by a change in pressure on the A/C gauge connected to the low side.

Diagnostics show:
1- 94 degs inside temp
2- 103 degs outside temp
3- 111 degs left heater core
4- 107 degs right heater core
5- 67 degs evap temp
6- 195 degs engine coolant
7- 19 psi refrigerent pressure
8- 141 degs refrigerant temp

Error codes are:
227 Outside temp out of range
231 engine coolant temp malfunction
234 sun sensor
416 coolant circulation pump
422 not sure
FF not sure

Report says I am low on Freon which I don’t think is correct. I am slightly high on Freon if anything.

Please help soonest – its pretty hot and humid in Houston right now

Also, how do I reset the diagnostic error codes from the A/C panel?
I am not sure how many are old or do they all go away when fixed?

ohlord

both auto buttons while in error mode.That will clear the cc errors
You can't check level of r134a by using pressure value,it is a variable system based on load,so you could say you're low if it read 0-4 or so but normal values read between 7-16 or so even when set to low/low.,some may be old codes,clear and drive with system on and recheck values and errors.Can you watch the compressor engaging and disengaging?Hissing from cntr vent?Clear those codes and post the new values.Plus if the duovalve is not showing a code but is stuck open,the temp of the engine coolant will far exceed the r134a's ability to cool and you will have nothing but warm air,since it is a shared system on the benz,heat and cool working in unison,so try the simple wack with the end of a screw driver on both cans of the duovalve,don't try to kill them,just a drum like tap to see if they free up.
ohlord
"GOT CODES?"

lexrex

I think you have a clog, most likely in the receiver-drier. The compressor is obviously working hard to push against the clog. That's why you have high refrigerant temperature AND pressure, confirmed by you noticing overpressure cycling.

Here's how you could confirm that the receiver-drier is the culprit. There are two refrigerant lines connected to the receiver-drier: in and out. Feel both of them. If one of them (the out line) is significantly colder than the other, you know there's a blockage.

If your problem were a stuck duovalve, #5 (evap temp) would be normal (35-45 degrees). #5 is not normal. Duovalve controls temps downstream in the heater cores. It does not affect evaporator temperature.

ohlord

tip,did not think of that one.Another one for the tips list.Those pesky clogs,evac system,pull a vacuum,new drier,oil,r134a,at least your tip will confirm need for the above.
Thought you were on vacation or sabbatical or something,Lex.where you be?
ohlord

jnash

thank you Lexrex and Ohlord for helping me

My values are now:
1-98 inside temp
2-94 outside temp
3-105 heater core left
4-107 heater core right
5-103 evap temp
6-148 ECT sensor
7-10 refrigerant in bars
8-102 refrigerent temp

The only error code is E-FF

The compressor is not coming on, low side is very high (iE no compressor), and the air is ambient (warm).
I checked out the duo valves - they were clean with good solder joints.
The two fuses that relate to the temp control system are good (#4 & #7)
The EC light is not on.

Now, I am not sure what to do in terms of knowing what is prohibiting the compressor from running.
Any help would be appreciated.

Here is some history: Driving back on Sunday from a 2 hour drive, the A/C started to smell a smidge like mold so I put the A/C setting to HI to dry out the mold. I left it this way while I parked the car over night. In the morning the A/C wasnt very cool anymore on 72 degs. Over the last 3 days it's got worse and now the compressor will not come on. THere is ample freon.

jnash

the compressor is running. i can see it. It also turns freely when the engine is stopped. still warm air blowing from the vents.
I'm stumped!

ohlord

Do what Lexrex said,check those lines.........
Warm the car up to normal temp and run the diagnostics again,both sides set at 72,see what it shows today.You may need to have it evacuated,vacuum pulled to remove the crud,and new r/drier,and recharged.
ohlord

jnash

1-100 degs in car temp
2-93 degs outside temp
3-100 degs heater core left
4-100 degs heater core tight
5-98 degs Evap temp
6-152 degs ECT sensor
7-08 bar refrigent pressure
8-94 degs refrigerent temp

No EC light on, no error codes (only E FF), and blowing ambient (warm) air, compressor is spinning. I was kinda hoping I wouldnt have to break into the system, but I will get a new dryer + o-rings, and look for debris.

How should I blow out the lines? anything to be careful off?
I should put in some synthetic oil too I guess? how much? which brand?
cheers - Jim 713-628-0713

jnash

I no longer hear the compressor osolating on and off since my first post but it is spinning while running. the measurements just taken were warm engine at idle.

ohlord

one for the shop,my friend,take it from me you do not want to uncork that baby without the proper recovery gear etc.I hate shops,but in your case it needs to go.They will recover and filter the charge,install a vac and pull all debre, sludge,plug etc,out and let it sit on vac to remove all old oil /moisture etc, then install a new r/drier and refill.do so at your own risk,but under pressure that gas and oil blows all over the place,and is nasty on the lungs as well!
ohlord
"GOT CODES?"

nsupra

Maybe you guys can help me on fixing my problem. I did the A/C diagnostic test and i came up with these numbers.

1/73
2/76
3/102
4/102
5/130
6/175
7/15
8/120

error codes 234 /459/ FF
and here is my description
# Your climate control data has been received.
# Your evaporator temperature sensor appears to be malfunctioning. Usually a bad evaporator temperature sensor is indicated by code B1230. Your car does not indicate this code. However, a bad evaporator sensor does not always trigger the code. The sensor reports a temperature of 130 degrees. The outside air is only 76 degrees. It's impossible for your evaporator temperature to be that much warmer than the ambient air. When the evaporator temp sensor reports a value like this (and nothing else is out of spec), your A/C should run for 10 minutes after starting the car and then automatically switch off. It does this is to protect the evaporator from freeze damage. The climate control system carefully regulates the evaporator temperature to make sure it does not drop below 33 degrees. If the temperature drops below 33, the moisture in the air may freeze and damage the evaporator. When the temperature sensor stops working correctly, the climate control system cannot tell whether the evaporator is too cold. It then shuts off to protect the system.'
# Code B1234 Explanation: This sensor detects strong sunlight and increases the fan speed slightly to compensate for solar gain. The sensor is located in the middle of the dash near the windshield. This sensor is not critical. Its failure would not interfere with normal A/C function

I did the tests at night and i had the overhead lights on. maybe the sun sensor was detecting that as strong sunlight?

any help is appreciated. tmorow i am gonna try to reset the codes using the method mentioned above. I doubt that it will do anything because i didn't touch or change anything with the ac system yet. Thanks in advance!

ohlord

threads mixed up,so better to start a new thread,nsupra,jnash has a totally different can of worms,see my reply to your post on benzworld.You need to get the evap sensor and get out the tools,that baby has failed!Get r done
ohlord
"GOT TOOLS?"
And once again the sun sensor is a non issue,do not worry about it,and when you fix the evap sensor the code might just go away,like it has on several r/r.Besides the sun sensor measures heat not light,so unless your dome light is an infra ray bulb,no worries

jnash

Ohlord and LexRex,

I did what you suggested since you thought I may have a blockage in the AC dryer. Today I replaced the dryer, added some oil, pulled a vacuum for 40 mins and began adding the first can of Freon to the low side.

Both my low side and high side gauges read the same ~110 PSI.
It feels about 30% of a 12 oz can of Freon may have been sucked into the system.
The compressor is not switching on.
The AC controller shows a 00 value for #7 (refrigerant pressure), so since the dealership was open until noon today, I replaced the pressure switch (3 wire plug) on the Dryer, re-pulled a vacuum + Freon and I get the same results.

I.E. no A/C compressor engaging with high and low side at about ~110 PSI (6.9 bar)

Here are my values - there are no diag codes set. (I.E. just FF)
1 -93 in car temp
2-91 outside temp
3-96 heater core left
4-96 heater core right
5-94 Evap temp
6-143 ECT sensor
7-00 Refrigerant pressure
8-91 Refrigerant temp

The refrigerant pressure of zero - I don’t understand why.
So I manually engaged the compressor (12V) and can here it click and see it rotate but both guages dont move off the 100 PSI. Does this mean my compressor is gone?
http://www.eclassbenz.com/acdiagjst reports I am low on Freon but without the A/C compressor running, I am not sure how to get more Freon in the system. My calculations say 2.8 12 oz cans required from scratch.

Any further help is very much appreciated

jnash

Well,
A block in the dryer caused the compressor to eventually fail. So I ended up replacing the compressor with an aftermarket (made in China for $300), plus a dryer, and for the hell of it, a new expansion valve.

All is well, new o-rings, oil, and freon and its blowing cold.
I have about 3 degs F difference between the center left airvent and the center right airvent that I put down to either being correct or I may be a few oz shy of the 2.2lbs required for a full charge. (2.9 12-ounce cans)

Anyone think this spread of 3 degs between the center vents should be less?

Oil added to new compressor = 4 oz
Oil added to new dryer = 0.3 oz
Vacuum pulled for 2 hours

Console shows no errors, data reads as follows:
1 - 84 degs F inside (car not running long)
2 - 100 degs F outside temp
3 - 67 degs F left heater core
4 - 67 degs F right heater core
5 - 62 degs F Evap temp value
6 - 193 degs F Engine coolant temp
7 - 16 Freon pressure in Bars
8 - 143 degs F Freon temp

ohlord

degrees is not bad,to the right is always a little cooler.that evap temp is still kind of high.So the compressor was not working like you thought it was so very long ago,did you do the r/r?
ohlord

jnash

what do you mean by r/r?

ohlord

Removal and replacement ?

lexrex

Yes, three degrees difference is okay. At ten...I'd really start worrying.

All your numbers look okay if the car was idling for a short period of time. Evap temp should drop into the 30s when you're driving.

jnash

Ohlord,
Yes, I did the repair myself and replaced the compressor, new drive belt, dryer, oil, and expansion valve. Took a whole morning last Saturday with help from the MB WIS printable procedures (eBay DVDs). Really wasn’t that bad a job. Getting the small star screws out of the expansion block was a worry b/c if they broke things would have been ugly. All A/C connections that were broken into had new o-rings. Total cost was about $500. I'm curious to know how long this aftermarket knockoff compressor from China $320 shipped is going to last. It was purchased from Blend Air Inc in Irving Texas and shipped overnight.

My new gauges are leaking so they are going back for a refund. I am going to invest in a Supco VG64 - Hand-Held Digital Vacuum Gauge since I am not convinced gauges were airtight during pulling a vacuum. If I had this device I would be able to know exactly how good a job on pulling a vacuum and if there are any leaks going on. Hence my questions on performance of my cars A/C. I am not positive that it's as good as it could be.

Thanks to you and LexRex for responding to my questions.

After reading online more than I wanted to about A/C, I am now convinced I am going to replace the dryer and refill with Freon + oil top-up on my wife’s 01 BMW, and both my kids Civics. I am a believer that it’s a 7-year service item.

Thanks again.

ohlord

You Sir are one of the hero's that make these forums so worth while.People complain about the cost to do a job at the dealer and you take on the task and diy.
I do all my own maint and repairs,it is always nice to see a doer instead of a whiner.
check that evap sensor temp while running,Lexrex's point about it driving down in temp as you run it longer is to be noted.His program is a godsend to diy'rs.

Did you think of taking pics and a write up on http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/ w210 forum diy section?

jnash

Ohlord,
Thanks for the praise. I didnt take pictures - sorry. The only tricky item was to disasemble the cowling and the wiper arm etc. to get access to the expansion valve. The replacement of the dryer is straightforward, and the compressor has three torx head bolts to hold it in place, and to remove the one wire connection to it.

It says to remove the fan to remove the drive belt but actually you can squeeze it by and over the fan in place. I didnt have a big enough left handed left threaded spanner (joking) to remove the fan.

IF anyone wants scanned copies of the procedures from the WIS manual I would be pleased to create them. The best plan would be for someone to get their own WIS copy available on ebay for a few bucks.

I too do all my own DIY. I have to service 4 cars out of warranty and everyting else so poor wifey never gets a new washing machine

jnash

search for "How to repair the AC system Part1" in this W210 section of the forum. I hope this helps others.
cheers
Jim - Houston 00 E430 with a cool AC system now working, just in time for winter.

ohlord

read it and posted it over on benzworld.org w210 section.One of the members asked how to replace the expansion valve just yesterday,so your kind work will be of help to a thankful benz owner