suicidal4life

Kleemann headers, downpipes, and 200 cel cats are going on tomorrow. I will post an update Tues or Weds. Its taken forever to get to this point. I've just been swamped the last couple of months. Supercharger to follow (hopefully next month)

Eurosport

Yacht Master

Pics=1000 words, Good luck on the header/cats install. I cant wait for the S/C install.

wawy

suicidal4life,

I saw your post in the C32/C55 forum. You have quite the mod list going. SLR cams?? I didnt think they would work? Anyway, I can't wait to see what you think of the Kleemann Headers and sport cats....

suicidal4life

I try

I'm not 100% sure they will work either. I'm positive they will bolt in but I'm not sure how much HP they will add (or subtract) I have sets of stock 430, E55 N/A, and E55K cams sitting around. The SLR's are almost exactly the same design. Just slightly longer but that is fixed with a simple spacer for the sensor. SLR cams were proven to work in 55K engines so we'll see if they work in mine. I was originally going to purchase Kleemann cams or Schrick but several people mentioned Kleemann was basically a clone of the SLR grind. I got these SLR cams for a hell of a bargain so I figure I can always sell them to a 55K owner if it comes to that.


Klemmann headers but I'm running Metal'cat brand cats not Kleemann brand cats.

suicidal4life

Headers and cats are installed. Surprisingly I can feel a difference. I didn't think my butt dyno would notice much. Car pulls harder from 40-70. Really haven't had much chance to put my foot to it yet. Roads are wet. Sounds better when passing but not too much different at idle. Does have that somewhat hollow echo sound at lower RPM's that headers always seem to have but it is not that bad. Sorry no pics yet but there probably wont be much more to see then there was in E43's thread. Driven about 60 miles so far today with 3 key cycles and so far no CEL's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

Kudos to Swaintech!! Popped the hood after a 20 mile drive and the engine compartment was much cooler then normal. That thermal coating really seems to work. I put my hand a couple inches from the header and the heat coming off of it seemed less then the heat coming off the intake manifold.

suicidal4life

Heres a couple of crappy cel phone photos of the downpipes and cats





Right now the drivers downpipe contacts the floor under heavy acceleration. The shop thinks the engine mounts may be worn because the engine lifts several inches under full throttle. I just replaced them about 5,000 miles ago so I'm not convinced. It is obvious however that Kleemann made the drivers side closer to the floor (less then an inch clearance) then the passengers for no apparent reason. Maybe the same quality control supervisor as before. Hopefully we will figure out a decent solution.

No CEL's yet with about 150 miles and 10+ key cycles. Keeping fingers crossed.

jeff.bisonett

awesome

Yacht Master

Thanks for the pics, looks good. boy those cats are compact.
No CELs good news, but "engine lifts several inches" That is too much, the MB mounts are a weak setup and even though you changed it or them out 5k miles ago they could have failed already. How dose a half throttle 1-2 shift feel? bouncy?

suicidal4life

Jeff do you have any pics of your setup installed. Mine is really tight on the drivers side. Probably only 1/2 inch or so clearance. I'm going to take a closer look at it tonight when I get a chance. Heres a pic of where its tight. Any chance you could check your clearance there?



It's possible the mounts could be bad already I guess. I'll see if they look bad or not. I'm thinking I need some sort of torque strap to limit the total movement. Its only gonna get worse with forced induction.

Those Metal'cats are pretty sweet. Really compact and stainless construction. I was looking at Random Technologies cats but these looked cleaner for the area I needed to fit them.

1-2 shift feels fine. When my mounts failed last time I could really notice a thump when downshifting but not much when upshifting.

SaMaS

great projet... please let as know on fitment I'm intrested in these headers but I heard from som other people that fitment is tight also I heard that downpipe was hitting steering rack do you noticed anything like that, project looks great please let us know thatnks !!!

suicidal4life

The shop did have to lower the rack to get room to install the headers but it has plenty of clearance once its all bolted back together. I put my car up on jacks last night in my garage to get a real good look at everything. Clearance is good everywhere but where I pointed out. If you look at the pic where I drew an arrow there is a weld in the downpipe about 6" to the left. (you can also see this weld in my picture of the pipes sitting on my deck) This weld is a factory Kleemann weld and not a result of my installers. It looks like when Kleemann welded this part they should have rotated the rear downpipe piece a few degrees. This would have lowered the part where it hooks to the cats about 1/2" giving a total of about 1" clearance that is needed. I'm most likely going to have to grind the coating off around that weld and cut and reweld Kleemanns work right there. That should provide the much needed clearance. This is not a huge deal but at the price Kleemann charges these parts should be spot on!!!

After looking closer last night the spot where it actually rubs is just to the right of the arrow I drew. Its right about where the white coating stops.

wawy

suicidal4life
- so after having these installed for a bit now I'm just curious if you have any further thoughts or opinions in regards to the product? Do you feel it was worth it? Would you go Kleemann again vs another manufacturer? Do you think the headers delivered the advertised HP/TQ figures etc?? I'm considering headers for my C55 but am not sure what manufacturer to go with (Kleemann, Evosport, AMS, or LET)?

suicidal4life

I don't know if it was worth the price (but I did get a good deal) 2,200 +install is quite a bit for a couple of pipes welded together. At the time I had bad cats so I was already going to have to spend some decent money to fix that problem therefore the extra 1,000 or so to upgrade to Kleemann headers made sense to me. I went with Kleemann because of all the good reviews everyone always gives them. I'm Also not convinced that the AMS, LET, etc shorty headers will make the same power as the Kleemann setup. (I could be totally wrong on this) I was genuinely surprised to gain a noticeable increase in HP. I was not expecting to feel much. It's not gobs and gobs of power but there is a definite increase. I suspect a lot of that is due to the larger and straighter downpipes and the higher flowing cats. The stock downpipes on my car were a joke. Lots of unneeded bends and a set of cats real close to the cylinder heads. I suspect the headers will have an even bigger impact once my car is SC'ed.

All in all I'm happy with the performance increase (but not sure it was worth the $ per HP ratio) but I'm disappointed with the crappy quality control by Kleemann. At the money they charge there should be no issues with fit. FWIW Kleemann did replace the defective headers with no hassles but it took a while longer then I thought it should have and the downpipes were still off by a bit (MBTEK also complained about ill fitting downpipes on his W210)

Since you have a 55 the headers should be an even better improvement on your car although I don't know if the C55 stock manifolds and downpipes (and the Kleemann parts) are better or worse then the W210 design.

Last but not least I would recommend the Swain Tech coating if you do get headers. It still amazes me how much heat that keeps out of the engine compartment.

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

wawy

Thank you for your reply. Kleemann lists the price for C55/CLK55 etc headers for about $3,500, which, I think is outrageous but its the only mod, short of going forced induction that will make the biggest difference for power on a N/A vehicle I am aware of. I will probably get some high flow 200 cell cats and a Y or X-pipe also. If you know of a vendor that is negotiable on price please pm me.........

Thanks again....

Tacjam

$2300 or even $2200 or even $1000 is just a plain murder crazy ripoff for some shorty headers!

Yacht Master

Not to go too far off topic, at some point all cars will reach a point that requires the cats to be changed, this is a point where it becomes economically viable to upgrade to headers and race cats.

In my case this is a pic of my cats,

retail price $4100
when it goes bad $3500 headers and $600 race cats go back on with X pipe.

suicidal4life

I totally agree although I might debate you at the $1,000 price point. At 1K I'd still call it steep but not murder.

Unfortunately there is not much competition when it comes to MB performance mods and there is a limited market of buyers. It's just part of the territory of modding MB's and it sucks pretty bad!!

Anatoli

Some News???
SC installed?

After you installed teh Kleemann headers + secondary high flow cats.
How many O2 Sensors you`ve got installed - and where do you placed them?
Bevore and after the secondary metal cats?

Iamthephoenix

I've had the same idea doing this. But cant seem to find the monetary justification vs. the performance gains. If I where undertake such a task, it would be with the pretense of prolonging the life of the engine. Anytime you can take heat away from any engine, performance becomes the by product.

My question is, you coated in ceramic. Great! Why not heat wrap the headers & all the pipes?

If you really wanted to get , bore- it, stroke-it, port & polish it too.

All smaller pulleys & start the processes of mass reduction.
Convert to electric pumps as possible.

no fake horsepower w/ turbo's intercoolers or nos.

Congratulations on the upgrade

BonitaBeast

Holy thread resurrection here but I have a quick question in case you are still on this message board.

Do you or anyone on the board know if there was a gasket installed in between the Kleemann headers and the downpipes or are the flanges just supposed to meet without a gasket and bolt up to each other? I'm guessing you have an M113 motor?

Fabio D

It comes with a separate conical ring to seal the headers with the downpipes

Fabio Daniel

suicidal4life

This^^^^^



Here are some pics









EDIT:

I just noticed you have a G55. Not sure if the W210 header flanges are the same. Here is a pic of the W211 E55 header which has a much different flange then my W210 setup (W211 is welded W210 is loose). I'm guessing the W211 style takes a gasket. If your header looks more like this one then maybe you should ask around on their page too.

https://mbworld.org/forums/5258425-post8.html

BonitaBeast

Thanks!! I think that's exactly what I need! My headers look more like the ones from your car W210. My flanges look like yours as well. So I'm guessing that is the type of ring that I need. Would you know if that is a standard issue item or is it a specialized Kleemann product?

I got my headers and downpipes used so I'm not sure what exactly came with them. I asked Cory to confirm if the headers and downpipes were legit and they were. I did forget to ask if I needed the O-ring however. I only got a header gasket kit from Kleemann and I'm guessing the kit didn't come with the o-rings.

Here's what the header/downpipe joint looks like:


The installer put some sort of gasket in there. And I just blew through it. Needless to say, the truck sounds like a mac truck now.....


Here's what my headers and down pipes look like uninstalled:


Would you know if it is still the same type of ring I need that you pictured?

Thanks again!

suicidal4life

It appears your flanges are welded to the headers and downpipes like the W211 style but it's kinda hard to tell in the pics. On the W210 headers the flanges are loose on the pipes until the the bolts are tightened so I don't know if they use the same rings or not. You could ask the guys on the W211 page but honestly your best bet is probably just to ask Cory.

Here is a pic of the loose flange I am referring to.