Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

You've missed my point of argument. What I meant was that a custom built
V6 engine built on 3 valves per cylinder and SOHC would also be able to achieve just as much HP as a DOHC S6 with 4 valves per cylinder engine when all has been done to achieve all those horses. Also the V6 design is a more preffered for racing as oppossed to the S6, because of the shorter crankshaft of
the V6.

There is no difference between a twincam engine and a singlecam engine. The only difference is that a twincam is smoother than a singlecam. It does not make much sense in believing that DOHC engine is superior to an SOHC one. Also with modern racing teams want the DOHC because of engine vibration factors at high engine speeds that can distract the driver. A tired SOHC engine is more likely to feel less smooth than a worn DOHC engine.

And now as far as DTM goes, teams actually spend millions to develope their cars. You simply do not know anything about DTM. The reason why DTM racecars do not share anything other than engine and form with the production version, is because teams always custom built racecars to their required specification all for the sake of performance.

It is not possible for a racecar to share the same kind of transmission with the production version, simply because the transmission would be subject to a high level of stress with engines revving up to as high as 10000 rpm and also due to the fact that racing transmissions need to have lightning quick changes considering the demands of the race itself, do you expect a race car to share the same automatic or manual transmission with the production version, when the transmission from production cars would simply be ripped apart from the high kws of a race engine. Racecars also need reinforced subframes and structures as they are subject to high gs all the time, which is why their bodies and stuctures are also custom built to be race rigid. So how does it not make sense to have high development costs on racecars now considering all these factors that I've mentioned and that designers, engineers and technicians work all year round in trying to improve the design of racecars in terms of reliability, safety and other crucial factors. I've had a basic E36 BMW Racecar before and its not cheap to run one.

So yet again your arguments are based on how you feel about DTM rather than facts. You don't know a thing about racing.

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

There is no difference between a twincam engine and a singlecam engine. The only difference is that a twincam is smoother than a singlecam. It does not make much sense in believing that DOHC engine is superior to an SOHC one.

Originally Posted by Oliverk

I refuse to argue with you any further since you simply can not stay on topic. The topic is the MB I6 vs the MB V6, not truck engines or e55s or anything else.

Originally Posted by husk323

Then why did you talk about BMW I6's etc.....We are discussing Inline 6's it is important to bring up how proven the technology and layout is. Since you cannot point to the same proven longevity success of the V6 suddenly you "refuse" to debate. Bravo

Originally Posted by Yacht Master

The V6 is much cheaper to produce and fits newer body styles and was the beginning of Mercedes modular engine line.
I prefer the I6 only because it has room for a turbo under the hood and potential for big HP.

This is worth a look
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=pumpish

Originally Posted by husk323

Yes you got me, you having a C280 makes you a racing expert, but my F40, racebred 250 California Spyder, 300SL Gullwing etc make me a racing dud
You were the one who alluded to the fact that the DTM was related to conventional car technology, I put you back in line by telling you that car manufacturers utilize outsourced components, and that the DTM races were "cheap" races (compared to F1 etc). You are living in a dreamworld buddy.





Do you really believe this? You obviously know nothing if you think that there is no "difference" between a DOHC and SOHC engines. Pick up a book and read it, learn about how an engine works, the difference between a OHC, DOHC, OHV etc. Maybe then you will stop making such ridiculously stupid comments.

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

Are you kidding? DTM races are not cheap races, at all. You should read up on DTM and its history. It is clear that at this point, that you're arguing on basis of your own assuption again. DTM Racecars are always built to required specifications of their respective teams. Yes they do have sequential racing transmissions, and reinforced subframes and structures. You simply do not know the facts. Are you suggesting that DTM throw in a mildly modified version of the production version of their cars and call them racecars? You should read up on the DTM racecars. Also look at the road version of the Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR, its the most expensive production car in the world as compared to any other production cars built by Mercedes-Benz. The CLK GTR was derived from DTM design. Arguing like a 'red indian' again?

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

its the most expensive production car in the world as compared to any other production cars built by Mercedes-Benz.

Originally Posted by martz

The early 90's DTM cars used the cosworth 2.5 190e evolution 4 cylinder motors because of DTM rules allowing only 4 cyl transplants and there after when the rules changed they had no other choice but to develop the V6 motor for competition because they had unveiled the V6 motors as its newest motor to replace the I6 in 1996... again because lowering emissions was the main objective.

Originally Posted by husk323

Then why did you talk about BMW I6's etc.....We are discussing Inline 6's it is important to bring up how proven the technology and layout is. Since you cannot point to the same proven longevity success of the V6 suddenly you "refuse" to debate. Bravo

Originally Posted by husk323

read this article on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch...nwagen_Masters

Read this quote

"The cars are supposed to be fast and spectacular, while still rather cheap to build and run"

DTM race cars are not as expensive to build as F1 cars or most other purpose built race vehicles. You are a mental midget buddy, The $360,000 price tag is nothing compared to a F1 car, or any other purpose built race car. You know nothing about cars and should take up something like knitting. Every time you type something, it proves that you have a severely diminished mental capacity.

What does this mean???? Most production car in the world as compared to any production built Mercedes benz

You really think Mercedes would create a new motor for a car that costs 360k and will be sold in limited quantities? If you think thats true may God help you.

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

No matter how cheap you perceive DTM to be. Still they do use racing transmissions, custom made reinforced subframes and other structures.

These cars are subjected to high gs, and high engine revs all the time to meet requirements for each race. So they have to be built to the specifications of the teams. Even though all DTM racecars use the standard Holinger Sequential Race Transmission. Their bodies and structures are still custom made according to the 'cheap' budget of $360,000 (your own perception thinking that $360,000 is a small budget) their teams have. So yes their still custom made, and you're wrong about that.

Originally Posted by husk323

360k for a "race car" is a small budget and its just not my perception, please compare with F1 cars and other racing circuits. You bore me.

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

Maybe you should explain how DTM race cars should not have their parts custom made, now considering that you've claimed that you've been 'racing'.


High gs all the time require reinforced subframes, structures, race suspension etc to help the racecar handle better. Also DTM cars rev all the way up to 10000 rpm vs 18000rpm+ in F1 cars. 10000 rpm is still high enough to cause all the high gs. Yes each team may have a budget of about $360,000 but that does not stop them from building custom made components as long as they do not overspend under the constrained budget that they're given. DTM cars these days are powered by a 4000 ccm V8.

DTM cars have Holinger sequential race transmissions as standard. (You would know this if you had read up enough about DTM).

Are you sure you've been racing before? Or if not I should say have you seen a proper race car before which has everything stripped out to save weight, which has a roll cage and reinforced structures and subframes to help it handle well on a race track? You do not need an F1 car to prove that, racecars such as those in BTC should be enough to prove that parts still need to be custom made. Even my BMW 318i E36 racecar had a modified suspension, reinforced structures and subframes, race transmission, and stripped to a bare minimum to save weight. The A/C too was taken out to save weight. I once enquired about putting the BMW V8 engine under the bonnett, and I needed a very rigid chassis to cope with the power generated by the V8. So that meant that I needed extra reinforced subframes here and there to cope with the V8. And the budget to run my racecar was not even close to the $360,000 you mentioned earlier.

And last but not least how would you explain the success of the Mercedes-Benz W202 C-Class DTM racecar had over all its rivals with its SOHC 3 valves per cylinder design over their DOHC 4 valves per cylinder design. Mercedes won the most races for two solid years with this engine. http://www.dtm.com/historie.php

Originally Posted by husk323

Please read my post, then read what you wrote, and then repost your findings, you have to be retarded honestly. You are talking out of your *** and have no experience with "race cars." Comparing your homebrewed 318i to any sort of factory race car, is idiotic. You are comparing your homebrewed 318i racecar conversion(and saying you are underbudget).... to the Mercedes DTM Team ::rolf you have to be the biggest retard I have ever seen. I am through with you, you have no concept of reality at all. Are you honestly reading what you are writing? Are you on drugs or something? I have waisted enough time talking to you. You have churned out some of the most ignorant posts, based on the stupidest logic in internet history. Its sad to see that people like you exist.

Originally Posted by martz

I believe the CE is a 3.2 in line 6 motor. 300ce model designation but 3.2 motor under the bonnet, your owners manual will confirm.

Originally Posted by 124-Fan

And the M104 L6 engine is a marvellous engine in my opninion. Also the M103 engine, even though the L6īs are prone to headgasket failure as a result of how long the head is. Thatīs about the only bad thing you can say about them. There is also no special difference on working on L6īs or V6īs, I think.

Originally Posted by RLE

I have been plowing through 124-fans posts regarding his horsepower claims and I haven't found any mention that he is apparently driving what we here call a Euro model. Judging by the license plates on the cars pictured under his posts.

Which means his cars do not have US emission controls at their ages.

Originally Posted by SechsPackSound

I totally agree with you. This guys argument is based on his feelings rather than facts. I've given him the facts based on the two websites, and the Mercedes ML website clearly says that there is no tradeoff in HP between the 3 valves per cylinder technology and the more conventional 4 valve per cylinder. No use arguing with a 'red indian' who simply cannot deal with facts.

Originally Posted by ohlord

The new LS9 corvette engine with 640 h.p. is only 2 valves per cylinder and is the most advanced engine in gm history.