E55 to E420 Interior Swap - Door Controls Not Working
11-25-2011, 07:31 PM
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E55 to E420 Interior Swap - Door Controls Not Working
I may need to get my head checked, but I decided to embark on an interior swap and color change as I came across some E55 two tone heated/dynamic seats at a good price. I have always loved the two tone so I'm hoping that it is worth the work.
Things are not starting off too well. I plopped the new front seats in and the door controls are not adjusting the position of the seats. I swapped the old drivers seat back in and it is moving fine.
I've read a number of threads where people have done seat swaps and have retrofitted both heated and ventilated seats -- and those are the functions that I figured would be a bit of a challenge to get working. I assumed the seat motor controls were going to be plug and play though. Hadn't come across any talk about incompatibilities between years.
I'm still hoping that wasn't an entirely incorrect assumption and there is some trick or coding that will get them working. Anyone know about this? I have carsoft on order and that should be arriving in the next week or so if I can code the seats that way. As a first step, I only care about getting the seats to adjust like the old ones did, and I'll worry about heaters and dynamic adjustments later.
The seats are out of a 2000 E55 and I'm trying to put them into a 1997 E420. I'm guessing that I'm looking at swapping the seat frames/upholstery if the wiring/electronics are incompatible. Oh joy. Please bring me some good news, oh wise W210 owners!
Things are not starting off too well. I plopped the new front seats in and the door controls are not adjusting the position of the seats. I swapped the old drivers seat back in and it is moving fine.
I've read a number of threads where people have done seat swaps and have retrofitted both heated and ventilated seats -- and those are the functions that I figured would be a bit of a challenge to get working. I assumed the seat motor controls were going to be plug and play though. Hadn't come across any talk about incompatibilities between years.
I'm still hoping that wasn't an entirely incorrect assumption and there is some trick or coding that will get them working. Anyone know about this? I have carsoft on order and that should be arriving in the next week or so if I can code the seats that way. As a first step, I only care about getting the seats to adjust like the old ones did, and I'll worry about heaters and dynamic adjustments later.
The seats are out of a 2000 E55 and I'm trying to put them into a 1997 E420. I'm guessing that I'm looking at swapping the seat frames/upholstery if the wiring/electronics are incompatible. Oh joy. Please bring me some good news, oh wise W210 owners!
Last edited by CA_Tallguy; 11-25-2011 at 07:34 PM.
11-25-2011, 10:58 PM
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2000 E430 Sport
11-25-2011, 11:54 PM
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Here is another where someone did heated/multicontour and was progressing to ventilated functionality.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...our-seats.html
That last link was a 2000+ model retrofit, I think, and I believe that raymond was 1999. The link I just posted talks about connecting into the can-bus and that reminded me of my belief/suspicion that the core central wiring setup being changed sometime post 1997? I read up a long time ago about retrofitting comand to my e420 and seems like that wasn't necessarily possible for years prior to the introduction on our chassis. I wonder if that same issue is going to cause problems for me with these seats?
11-26-2011, 01:31 AM
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2000 E430 Sport
Raymond did the job on his car. He has the two tone E55 Designo maroon and black seats in his ride all hooked up and functional. They are post pacelift, meaning seats from 2000-02.
11-26-2011, 12:46 PM
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I am becoming slightly more optimistic about there being a way to fit these seats as they are. I believe all of these options were available for my model year. I need to do some EPC research and compare part numbers and I'm going to get a new and old seat side by side in my garage to compare the parts and wiring connections.
I also have read that there are retrofit instructions in WIS for heated seats and the air multicontour functionality. I'm under the impression that there is a retrofit wiring harness for the heating portion.
Another post described the functionality of the multicontour as being operated strictly from the air tubes and valves on the seats. I guess when the pressure chamber is low the vacuum pump starts to send air to the system and toward the open valve, filling the seats. So it doesn't sound like there is an electronic control unit or electric switches on the seat that are needed to make that work. I'll just need to have the vacuum pump coded to enable that feature (and hopefully my vacuum pump is the right one).
But I would be feeling a lot better if the seats were working with the basic adjustment controls! Maybe there is something simple like disconnected wires in the seats from the junkyard guys trying to remove them. The side by side inspections should hopefully point out any problems there.
I also have read that there are retrofit instructions in WIS for heated seats and the air multicontour functionality. I'm under the impression that there is a retrofit wiring harness for the heating portion.
Another post described the functionality of the multicontour as being operated strictly from the air tubes and valves on the seats. I guess when the pressure chamber is low the vacuum pump starts to send air to the system and toward the open valve, filling the seats. So it doesn't sound like there is an electronic control unit or electric switches on the seat that are needed to make that work. I'll just need to have the vacuum pump coded to enable that feature (and hopefully my vacuum pump is the right one).
But I would be feeling a lot better if the seats were working with the basic adjustment controls! Maybe there is something simple like disconnected wires in the seats from the junkyard guys trying to remove them. The side by side inspections should hopefully point out any problems there.
11-26-2011, 02:26 PM
#6
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In addition to comparing old seats to new with wiring and part numbers, I'm going to see if I can wake up the devices by disconnecting the battery as described here...
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...-dead-sos.html
I do think that my issues is canbus communications. Trying to find out exactly when changes were made to the W210 canbus. I believe it may have been around 1999 and *may not* have coincided with the facelift. Can anyone shed any light on this? When did comand become available in the w210?
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...-dead-sos.html
I do think that my issues is canbus communications. Trying to find out exactly when changes were made to the W210 canbus. I believe it may have been around 1999 and *may not* have coincided with the facelift. Can anyone shed any light on this? When did comand become available in the w210?
11-26-2011, 03:59 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
OK, a bit of progress. Disconnecting the battery didn't help but I got the seats out and compared them side to side. It seems the old seats (and my wiring harness) do not have the yellow connection. It has a "100 baud" sticker attached to the wire going to it on the new seat. I've attached photos showing both old and new connections at the seat front.
I first thought the yellow was a canbus for the entire seat based on the data communication info on the sticker. But then I noticed the drivers seat didn't have the yellow connection so that got me to thinking it may be for the SRS seat sensor pad. Indeed it may be, and it may be a canbus connection for that purpose, but oddly the old seat didn't have it? Perhaps 1997 seats don't have the SRS pad or it is wired differently? Or I'm completely on the wrong track about it. My SRS light has been on and I had been assuming the problem was likely the seat pad... and was hoping this seat swap would rectify it. Should be getting my carsoft unit in the next week and will be in a better position to troubleshoot it then.
The other connection that isn't present on the old seat is the square connector with the square tab contacts inside. I'm guessing this is for the seat heaters.
Both controllers have a sticker on the top with the following part numbers, which is called the "seat adjuster" in the EPC -- this may be a number for the whole base assembly, not just the controller. They both appear to have been superseded by part number 2109104236.
OLD PASS SEAT: 2109104036
NEW PASS SEAT: 2109107636
The electronic units themselves probably have their own part number, it seems. I'm having a hard time accessing the top where it is printed as there is an insanely small torx screw and I don't have the tool. initially I thought it was going to be same as printed on sticker but looking at EPC it seems that sticker number if for the assembly?
If anyone can help me out with info on these parts it would be greatly appreciated. I'm a bit hobbled by the netbook I'm using while on vacation and am even having a hard time making this post.
My hope is that I can just swap the control electronic modules and the seats will at least work as the old ones did for positioning.
I first thought the yellow was a canbus for the entire seat based on the data communication info on the sticker. But then I noticed the drivers seat didn't have the yellow connection so that got me to thinking it may be for the SRS seat sensor pad. Indeed it may be, and it may be a canbus connection for that purpose, but oddly the old seat didn't have it? Perhaps 1997 seats don't have the SRS pad or it is wired differently? Or I'm completely on the wrong track about it. My SRS light has been on and I had been assuming the problem was likely the seat pad... and was hoping this seat swap would rectify it. Should be getting my carsoft unit in the next week and will be in a better position to troubleshoot it then.
The other connection that isn't present on the old seat is the square connector with the square tab contacts inside. I'm guessing this is for the seat heaters.
Both controllers have a sticker on the top with the following part numbers, which is called the "seat adjuster" in the EPC -- this may be a number for the whole base assembly, not just the controller. They both appear to have been superseded by part number 2109104236.
OLD PASS SEAT: 2109104036
NEW PASS SEAT: 2109107636
The electronic units themselves probably have their own part number, it seems. I'm having a hard time accessing the top where it is printed as there is an insanely small torx screw and I don't have the tool. initially I thought it was going to be same as printed on sticker but looking at EPC it seems that sticker number if for the assembly?
If anyone can help me out with info on these parts it would be greatly appreciated. I'm a bit hobbled by the netbook I'm using while on vacation and am even having a hard time making this post.
My hope is that I can just swap the control electronic modules and the seats will at least work as the old ones did for positioning.
Last edited by CA_Tallguy; 11-26-2011 at 05:28 PM.
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11-26-2011, 05:22 PM
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Hooray! Success of some sort! I swapped the controller units on the passenger seat and it is moving just fine in the car!!! That controller unit has four connections in it -- three go to the motors on the seat bottom, and the last one, with more wires in it, I'm not sure about... probably for the headrest and perhaps motor for reclining.
So I appear to be in business! I'm not sure if there is a version difference between the controllers or if the car just wasn't recognizing the new ones since they hadn't been properly introduced with SDS. But I can't see any drawbacks at the present time as the old unit seems to be providing the exact functionality as was intended on the new seats.
If my assumptions are correct about the seat heater connection, and that there are no electronics on the seat for the multicontour air bladders, those functions should be simple enough to get working independently.
Please chime in if you have any advice or insight into this whole project! I'll try to jot down the part numbers on the controller units to come back and add to this thread along with any other useful info I can think of for anyone doing this in the future. And of course, I'll continue the saga with seat heater and air bladder connections when I get to those.
So I appear to be in business! I'm not sure if there is a version difference between the controllers or if the car just wasn't recognizing the new ones since they hadn't been properly introduced with SDS. But I can't see any drawbacks at the present time as the old unit seems to be providing the exact functionality as was intended on the new seats.
If my assumptions are correct about the seat heater connection, and that there are no electronics on the seat for the multicontour air bladders, those functions should be simple enough to get working independently.
Please chime in if you have any advice or insight into this whole project! I'll try to jot down the part numbers on the controller units to come back and add to this thread along with any other useful info I can think of for anyone doing this in the future. And of course, I'll continue the saga with seat heater and air bladder connections when I get to those.
08-08-2012, 11:56 AM
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W210 E55, BMW 116d 2012
Hooray! Success of some sort! I swapped the controller units on the passenger seat and it is moving just fine in the car!!! That controller unit has four connections in it -- three go to the motors on the seat bottom, and the last one, with more wires in it, I'm not sure about... probably for the headrest and perhaps motor for reclining.
So I appear to be in business! I'm not sure if there is a version difference between the controllers or if the car just wasn't recognizing the new ones since they hadn't been properly introduced with SDS. But I can't see any drawbacks at the present time as the old unit seems to be providing the exact functionality as was intended on the new seats.
If my assumptions are correct about the seat heater connection, and that there are no electronics on the seat for the multicontour air bladders, those functions should be simple enough to get working independently.
Please chime in if you have any advice or insight into this whole project! I'll try to jot down the part numbers on the controller units to come back and add to this thread along with any other useful info I can think of for anyone doing this in the future. And of course, I'll continue the saga with seat heater and air bladder connections when I get to those.
So I appear to be in business! I'm not sure if there is a version difference between the controllers or if the car just wasn't recognizing the new ones since they hadn't been properly introduced with SDS. But I can't see any drawbacks at the present time as the old unit seems to be providing the exact functionality as was intended on the new seats.
If my assumptions are correct about the seat heater connection, and that there are no electronics on the seat for the multicontour air bladders, those functions should be simple enough to get working independently.
Please chime in if you have any advice or insight into this whole project! I'll try to jot down the part numbers on the controller units to come back and add to this thread along with any other useful info I can think of for anyone doing this in the future. And of course, I'll continue the saga with seat heater and air bladder connections when I get to those.
08-08-2012, 01:03 PM
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Thread Starter
All went well with the swap, however I still have not hooked up the vacuum pump to the seats for the air bolsters since I don't have access to a Star Diagnosis machine to enable the feature. I also have not hooked up the seat heaters (not a lot of calls for them here in southern california). I've run the power and vacuum tubes to the proper locations but just have not hooked them up yet.
The bulk of the interior swap went pretty quickly with the carpet and the seats but there are a LOT of little parts that end up needing to be changed as well and I am slowly making my way through those. I also need to have the headliner replaced (but would have needed that with or without the swap as mine had started to sag a bit).
I seem to go in spurts on working on it. Or maybe I have just been avoiding it the weather has been pretty hot over the last few months with summertime here.
The bulk of the interior swap went pretty quickly with the carpet and the seats but there are a LOT of little parts that end up needing to be changed as well and I am slowly making my way through those. I also need to have the headliner replaced (but would have needed that with or without the swap as mine had started to sag a bit).
I seem to go in spurts on working on it. Or maybe I have just been avoiding it the weather has been pretty hot over the last few months with summertime here.
