Keep Fixing or Sell - Guidance Needed
09-19-2018, 10:54 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Keep Fixing or Sell - Guidance Needed
My apologies for the double post but after I replied to someone else's thread, I thought of posting my conundrum on its own thread.
Less than a month ago, I bought a very neglected 2002 E430 with 145k miles. I did not do a Pre Purchase Inspection. I knew I would have to spend money on it, but never imagined it would be almost 9K. In less than a month, I have already spent 4K on a Misfiring Cylinder, new Spark Plugs, L/R valve cover gaskets, Air Conditioning, and replaced front hood latch and cable. The car runs like a dream but I still need to replace the engine mounts, catalytic converters, and I may have to change Poly V belt and Tensioner. I'd like a set of original rims as I'd like the stock look and I also need to replace the trunk since a small tree fell on it. Those things could be 4.5K easily.
By the way, so far on the AC alone, I have spent $160 for a recharge, $180 replace hose + recharge free, $560 for compressor clutch (at a 2nd mechanic). That's $900 so far and still no AC. Taking back to 2nd mechanic for troubleshooting. Have a bad feeling about this.
I'm wondering if should I sell the car now and recoup what I put in it? Or should I just continue fixing it and keep it? I have looked at the 2006 S500 and like it or I could just buy another E430 in better condition. I took on this Mercedes to experience it and so far love the comfort and feeling of it.
I'd like some guidance on this please.
Less than a month ago, I bought a very neglected 2002 E430 with 145k miles. I did not do a Pre Purchase Inspection. I knew I would have to spend money on it, but never imagined it would be almost 9K. In less than a month, I have already spent 4K on a Misfiring Cylinder, new Spark Plugs, L/R valve cover gaskets, Air Conditioning, and replaced front hood latch and cable. The car runs like a dream but I still need to replace the engine mounts, catalytic converters, and I may have to change Poly V belt and Tensioner. I'd like a set of original rims as I'd like the stock look and I also need to replace the trunk since a small tree fell on it. Those things could be 4.5K easily.
By the way, so far on the AC alone, I have spent $160 for a recharge, $180 replace hose + recharge free, $560 for compressor clutch (at a 2nd mechanic). That's $900 so far and still no AC. Taking back to 2nd mechanic for troubleshooting. Have a bad feeling about this.
I'm wondering if should I sell the car now and recoup what I put in it? Or should I just continue fixing it and keep it? I have looked at the 2006 S500 and like it or I could just buy another E430 in better condition. I took on this Mercedes to experience it and so far love the comfort and feeling of it.
I'd like some guidance on this please.
Last edited by CarlitoE430; 11-25-2018 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Added AC expenses.
09-19-2018, 02:41 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
it sounds as though you should trying having a pre-purchase type inspection done now and have
someone go through the 20 year old vehicle. rubber, systems, mounts, etc degrade. you can
try to do similar if you have the skills. look up the relevant "Service A, B, etc" service checklists
and gauge the degree of need.
otherwise, you may end up with the car version of the money pit (like the movie) . no one can
advise you over the keyboard whether it is 'worth' it. lot of variables to consider
someone go through the 20 year old vehicle. rubber, systems, mounts, etc degrade. you can
try to do similar if you have the skills. look up the relevant "Service A, B, etc" service checklists
and gauge the degree of need.
otherwise, you may end up with the car version of the money pit (like the movie) . no one can
advise you over the keyboard whether it is 'worth' it. lot of variables to consider
09-19-2018, 02:51 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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2001 E320 Wagon, 2006 LBZ Silverado, 2007 E63 (sold), 2001 E55 (sold)
A 2006 S500 will probably be a bigger money pit than a W210. They also have ABC suspension which can be very expensive to fix when something goes wrong with it. Always get a PPI done if you're serious about a car. You have to remember these are older cars and if they weren't properly maintained that cost can really get you if you want to get it up to where it should be.
I'd consider selling the one you have and finding one in better shape. I doubt you'll get your money back out of it though based on what you say the car still needs and it's condition.
I paid $3500 for my 2001 E320 wagon with 124k on it and it needed zero mechanical work and the body is in decent shape (pic in my sig). There are cheaper ones out there in nice shape. It's needed nothing except for some minor maintenance items in the last 8,000 miles.
You should also put your location in your profile so people know where you live.
I'd consider selling the one you have and finding one in better shape. I doubt you'll get your money back out of it though based on what you say the car still needs and it's condition.
I paid $3500 for my 2001 E320 wagon with 124k on it and it needed zero mechanical work and the body is in decent shape (pic in my sig). There are cheaper ones out there in nice shape. It's needed nothing except for some minor maintenance items in the last 8,000 miles.
You should also put your location in your profile so people know where you live.
Last edited by Strigoi; 09-19-2018 at 02:59 PM.
09-19-2018, 10:47 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
imho, Should have seeked comments from many of the vets on the forums before your purchase and done some reading before making the plunge.
Many others have asked/seeked recommendations before making the plunge and Im sure you would have had a better experience. :
Ball is in your court on what you decide. IF you can do some of the repairs yourself, I believe you would be more inclined to keep it.
Plenty of DIY info here and great members to assist as they are able.
Many others have asked/seeked recommendations before making the plunge and Im sure you would have had a better experience. :
Ball is in your court on what you decide. IF you can do some of the repairs yourself, I believe you would be more inclined to keep it.
Plenty of DIY info here and great members to assist as they are able.
09-20-2018, 12:51 AM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
I understand if you don't "wrench it yourself" ... and I didn't catch where you live.... but you need to get your service costs/mechanic under control...
1. "I have already spent 4K on a Misfiring Cylinder, new Spark Plugs, L/R valve cover gaskets, Air Conditioning ($900 as #2 below) , and replaced front hood latch and cable."
A. No comment on "cylinder misfire" - since that diagnosis should come AFTER fresh spark plugs
B. Spark Plugs = 16 Bosch 6702 OE equivalent and not some jacked up wonder-plug = $65 parts + 2hrs labor at a reasonable indie service shop (any brand shop)
C. L/R valve cover gaskets - at 145K miles have a bit of seepage and road grime accumulation - "look worse that they really are" and a one area a shop will say "look at
this" to scare you - but at that mileage are rarely a true oil leak - and if not dripping do not need replacement just general cleanup to look better
D. Hood Latch & Cable - Front Latch (at hood) is $30 & Cable $40 - both OE retail prices + 1hr to max 2hr shop time
2. I have spent $160 for a recharge, $180 replace hose + recharge free, $560 for compressor clutch (at a 2nd mechanic)
Your Climate Control has a built-in diagnostic - do a search - which can give you "data for diagnosis"
a. recharge $160 - OK if you're metro $160 OK in my non-metro area it's $90 ONLY IF climate control says you have no refrigerant
b. there are 2 aircon "hoses" - it is rare but possible to have failure - more common to have o-ring failure at one end or another - depending on which hose $180 to $250
for the part + 1hr shop labor
c. compressor clutch - now that was nonsense - a brand new Denso including clutch will be like $300 for the part - IMPORTANT NOTE - for your 2002 there were TWO
different Densos - think of one as "high pressure" and one as "not so high pressure" - with your VIN# you MUST get correct MB part # from a Mercedes dealer - then
get that exact correct compressor from a reputable source. The two different compressors will each fit exactly the same - a "high" but on a "not-so-high" 2002 E430
will blow hat system out - a Not-so-high" but on a "high system" will give **** poor performance - either way "new" Denso for your car is cheap from reputable source -
and any competent auto aircon shop can install - AGAIN you need Climat Control Diagnostic before you make choice to replace
3. "I still need to replace the engine mounts, catalytic converters, and I may have to change Poly V belt and Tensioner"
a. Engine Mounts - OE are 2 x $50 + 2hrs shop labor
b. Belt Tensioner + Belt + Idler Wheel - comes as a ContiTech kit $140 for parts + max 2hrs shop labor since for that idler pulley the fan needs to be loosened
c. cat's - if you mean front cat's that can be a biggie - more diagnosis is needed - yes failed engine mounts can accelerate front cat failure from added vibration - more
diagnosis needed like what the trouble or CEL lights say - often "chunks" from the front cats can "plug" rear cat's (which are actually big cans) causing backup
pressure in this case rear "cats/cans" can be cutout/emptied/cleaned and reinstalled solving back pressure - replacement front cats with front/rear short pipes (if not
Calif emission) about $300 each - weld in universal front cat's (again not for Calif emissions) are like $120 each side + labor any competent exhaust shop can do -
if you're Calif - or have a Calif emissions car in NY - then there is a whole different keetle of fish on replacing front cats
4. If you plan to keep your 2002 E430 - then you need to plan on (a) replacing transmission"tranny adapter plug" MB/Mopar $14 plug WHEN you have correct tranny service done which is about $300 at a competent MB-INDIE and NOT a non-MB shop. At 145K miles - if correct tranny service has not been done in the last 45K miles - or has nver/ever been done - needs to be DONE SOONEST or you will face more costly tranny repair in the next 30K-40K miles at best.
1. "I have already spent 4K on a Misfiring Cylinder, new Spark Plugs, L/R valve cover gaskets, Air Conditioning ($900 as #2 below) , and replaced front hood latch and cable."
A. No comment on "cylinder misfire" - since that diagnosis should come AFTER fresh spark plugs
B. Spark Plugs = 16 Bosch 6702 OE equivalent and not some jacked up wonder-plug = $65 parts + 2hrs labor at a reasonable indie service shop (any brand shop)
C. L/R valve cover gaskets - at 145K miles have a bit of seepage and road grime accumulation - "look worse that they really are" and a one area a shop will say "look at
this" to scare you - but at that mileage are rarely a true oil leak - and if not dripping do not need replacement just general cleanup to look better
D. Hood Latch & Cable - Front Latch (at hood) is $30 & Cable $40 - both OE retail prices + 1hr to max 2hr shop time
2. I have spent $160 for a recharge, $180 replace hose + recharge free, $560 for compressor clutch (at a 2nd mechanic)
Your Climate Control has a built-in diagnostic - do a search - which can give you "data for diagnosis"
a. recharge $160 - OK if you're metro $160 OK in my non-metro area it's $90 ONLY IF climate control says you have no refrigerant
b. there are 2 aircon "hoses" - it is rare but possible to have failure - more common to have o-ring failure at one end or another - depending on which hose $180 to $250
for the part + 1hr shop labor
c. compressor clutch - now that was nonsense - a brand new Denso including clutch will be like $300 for the part - IMPORTANT NOTE - for your 2002 there were TWO
different Densos - think of one as "high pressure" and one as "not so high pressure" - with your VIN# you MUST get correct MB part # from a Mercedes dealer - then
get that exact correct compressor from a reputable source. The two different compressors will each fit exactly the same - a "high" but on a "not-so-high" 2002 E430
will blow hat system out - a Not-so-high" but on a "high system" will give **** poor performance - either way "new" Denso for your car is cheap from reputable source -
and any competent auto aircon shop can install - AGAIN you need Climat Control Diagnostic before you make choice to replace
3. "I still need to replace the engine mounts, catalytic converters, and I may have to change Poly V belt and Tensioner"
a. Engine Mounts - OE are 2 x $50 + 2hrs shop labor
b. Belt Tensioner + Belt + Idler Wheel - comes as a ContiTech kit $140 for parts + max 2hrs shop labor since for that idler pulley the fan needs to be loosened
c. cat's - if you mean front cat's that can be a biggie - more diagnosis is needed - yes failed engine mounts can accelerate front cat failure from added vibration - more
diagnosis needed like what the trouble or CEL lights say - often "chunks" from the front cats can "plug" rear cat's (which are actually big cans) causing backup
pressure in this case rear "cats/cans" can be cutout/emptied/cleaned and reinstalled solving back pressure - replacement front cats with front/rear short pipes (if not
Calif emission) about $300 each - weld in universal front cat's (again not for Calif emissions) are like $120 each side + labor any competent exhaust shop can do -
if you're Calif - or have a Calif emissions car in NY - then there is a whole different keetle of fish on replacing front cats
4. If you plan to keep your 2002 E430 - then you need to plan on (a) replacing transmission"tranny adapter plug" MB/Mopar $14 plug WHEN you have correct tranny service done which is about $300 at a competent MB-INDIE and NOT a non-MB shop. At 145K miles - if correct tranny service has not been done in the last 45K miles - or has nver/ever been done - needs to be DONE SOONEST or you will face more costly tranny repair in the next 30K-40K miles at best.
09-20-2018, 11:42 AM
#6
Member
Thread Starter
I'm in New York City so prices must be adjusted accordingly. About the repairs already done, your comments helped me confirm that going to a Mercedes shop, the only one in The Bronx was a bad idea. I'm looking for an "indie" who can help with these things. That is a lesson I have learned by browsing this forum (and BenzWorld).
Fabbrisd1, I will use your analysis for the future upgrades, if I end up keeping the car. Though my analysis of 3 or 4 mechanics in the area indicate an average price of $120 per hour. That's NYC for you. Ideally, I'd like a knowledgeable mechanic who will charge me fairly and have all these things done. I found another Mercedes mechanic in City Island, Bronx, but he only works on restoring cars at $150 per hour. The guy does amazing work, but at that rate and with as much work as this car needs, I'll be bankrupt within a month.
The AC saga continues. Yesterday, my indie AC guy tells me that we now need the condenser replaced. I already researched this forum and found that AutoHausAZ is the way to go for this part and that I should also replace the drier.
Fabbrisd1, I will use your analysis for the future upgrades, if I end up keeping the car. Though my analysis of 3 or 4 mechanics in the area indicate an average price of $120 per hour. That's NYC for you. Ideally, I'd like a knowledgeable mechanic who will charge me fairly and have all these things done. I found another Mercedes mechanic in City Island, Bronx, but he only works on restoring cars at $150 per hour. The guy does amazing work, but at that rate and with as much work as this car needs, I'll be bankrupt within a month.
The AC saga continues. Yesterday, my indie AC guy tells me that we now need the condenser replaced. I already researched this forum and found that AutoHausAZ is the way to go for this part and that I should also replace the drier.
Last edited by CarlitoE430; 09-20-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Updated hourly price from 100 to 120
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09-22-2018, 01:26 PM
#10
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
"there is not much more in this World that can get expensive faster than cheap Mercedes Benz"
That forum wisdom is getting posted over and over.
When you don't DIY, don't buy one of those EVER.
Mechanics will run your wallet dry very fast.
With some knowledge on other hand, there are incredible deals to make. Like my $1300 SL500.
I restored it for like $300, what included new plugs, new (used) seat covers, new MM, transmission service with limp reset and soft top cylinders rebuild.
After 2 years sold it for $2850 on ebay.
Good luck with your car - fabbrisd1 gave you good heads up how you can deal with the car, or if not, better get rid of it before mechanics will take rest of your home equity.
That forum wisdom is getting posted over and over.
When you don't DIY, don't buy one of those EVER.
Mechanics will run your wallet dry very fast.
With some knowledge on other hand, there are incredible deals to make. Like my $1300 SL500.
I restored it for like $300, what included new plugs, new (used) seat covers, new MM, transmission service with limp reset and soft top cylinders rebuild.
After 2 years sold it for $2850 on ebay.
Good luck with your car - fabbrisd1 gave you good heads up how you can deal with the car, or if not, better get rid of it before mechanics will take rest of your home equity.
Last edited by kajtek1; 09-22-2018 at 01:31 PM.
09-22-2018, 02:03 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
There is a GREAT MB Indie in Brooklyn who is often a contributor on the W164 board here or benzworld - sorry I can't recall the handle at the moment - great guy !
09-22-2018, 10:33 PM
#12
Member
Thread Starter
My tally just went up by $900 for body/paint job of the trunk, bumpers and certain rust spots throughout.
This is a labor of love and not for the faint of heart.
i decided to keep it for a while, a year at least, and then decide.
This is a labor of love and not for the faint of heart.
i decided to keep it for a while, a year at least, and then decide.
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kajtek1 (09-23-2018)
09-24-2018, 09:49 AM
#14
Member
Thread Starter
It is with a heavy heart that I’m seriously considering abandon this project as all the repairs are too much for me.
I’m torn about the final decision because after all these repairs, the car drives amazingly but each time I think about spending more money I wonder if it will ever stop.
I have learned on this forum, that these cars are not something disposable, like Toyota or Honda. But something you care for and keep for many years. In other words, you must have a reset about what you think about cars before you take on one of these. Your expenses will be significantly different because the comfort, safety, prestige of the car are different.
I thank everyone for the their inputs and stories. Unfortunately, it is only by owning one of these, that one learns all these intricacies. I doubt one can arrive at that point by ONLY reading these forums for weeks. This community is impressive and if I end up selling it, I keep many of the lessons that I learned here.
I’m torn about the final decision because after all these repairs, the car drives amazingly but each time I think about spending more money I wonder if it will ever stop.
I have learned on this forum, that these cars are not something disposable, like Toyota or Honda. But something you care for and keep for many years. In other words, you must have a reset about what you think about cars before you take on one of these. Your expenses will be significantly different because the comfort, safety, prestige of the car are different.
I thank everyone for the their inputs and stories. Unfortunately, it is only by owning one of these, that one learns all these intricacies. I doubt one can arrive at that point by ONLY reading these forums for weeks. This community is impressive and if I end up selling it, I keep many of the lessons that I learned here.
Last edited by CarlitoE430; 09-24-2018 at 11:40 PM.
09-24-2018, 10:28 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
At this point I think you made the right decision.
Before I bought my E55, I had a PPI done so I was aware what I was up against. Even at a low mileage it reported "$9K" in needed repairs. My plan was to offset some of the repairs with DIY and have those repairs I did not have the proper equipment or confidence with experience, I'd take it to an indie. Many of mine were the basic things similar to what you have listed above. I spent time researching forums then interviewing local Indies where I live to make sure I had someone who knew my W210 and wasn't going to become a repairs tick sucking me dry. In fact, I would ask them to give me a quick look over to see if they came up with the same things my PPI uncovered. Those who looked up book values for repairs on their computer only, I passed on. I would ask questions I knew answers to. Every repair made the car better. At times repairs never seem to end with the age of the car even up to today. But I'm married now lol. In my view, what I spent on my car and repairs still gave me a superior car better than most new today.
If you are not a handy wrench or are not willing to spend the time to save on basic items like plugs, then if you do it again follow the advice in this thread. If you are at the sole mercy of the mechanic, then any car you buy used will need to be nearly flawless even if you have to pay more upfront. I have done some major work that would have costed me thousands but I enjoy doing it and I know I take extra care that any mechanic wouldn't.
Best luck on your next car and finally....Luck favors the prepared.
Before I bought my E55, I had a PPI done so I was aware what I was up against. Even at a low mileage it reported "$9K" in needed repairs. My plan was to offset some of the repairs with DIY and have those repairs I did not have the proper equipment or confidence with experience, I'd take it to an indie. Many of mine were the basic things similar to what you have listed above. I spent time researching forums then interviewing local Indies where I live to make sure I had someone who knew my W210 and wasn't going to become a repairs tick sucking me dry. In fact, I would ask them to give me a quick look over to see if they came up with the same things my PPI uncovered. Those who looked up book values for repairs on their computer only, I passed on. I would ask questions I knew answers to. Every repair made the car better. At times repairs never seem to end with the age of the car even up to today. But I'm married now lol. In my view, what I spent on my car and repairs still gave me a superior car better than most new today.
If you are not a handy wrench or are not willing to spend the time to save on basic items like plugs, then if you do it again follow the advice in this thread. If you are at the sole mercy of the mechanic, then any car you buy used will need to be nearly flawless even if you have to pay more upfront. I have done some major work that would have costed me thousands but I enjoy doing it and I know I take extra care that any mechanic wouldn't.
Best luck on your next car and finally....Luck favors the prepared.
09-24-2018, 11:59 PM
#16
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Good part about MB is that once you fix some wear parts and put new stuff on it - you can expect +- 10 years of no worry about them.
So there is end of the tunnel eventually.
I am former NEW Fiat owner, when in 2 years I rebuild starter 3 times... on top of bucket of other repairs.
So there is end of the tunnel eventually.
I am former NEW Fiat owner, when in 2 years I rebuild starter 3 times... on top of bucket of other repairs.
