CaptMike

Any one have first hand info on a SC430?

I know the current model lacks a lot of features found on the E's, but have a few that are not on the E but those would not compel me to purchase it anyway.

Saleman (friend ?) says if I like the ride of the E, I will love the ride on the SC, althought they have run flat tires which makes the ride rough (i've heard) over RR track, pot holes ect.

Brav

Other than the fact that (to me) its pretty ugly and feminine, its a cool car and its a lexus (reliable).

DWP

The SC430 is objectively a very nice car, but (like VW Cabriolets, Corvettes or Hummers, to take a few examples) it hauls around a very heavy load of driver stereotype. Whether you want to deal with that is up to you.

http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/W...26/031034.html

Brav

wow, pretty good article actually

Spartan

I drove a 430 a few weeks back.

It has a smoother but somewhat pillow ride. I prefer the E's relative firmness.

The road and engine noise was very low but I was surprised to hear that much buffeting noise coming from the pillar. It seems they don't have their airdynamics down pat.

As for the rest, I found it a bit boring but something I could live with. As for reliability....NO COMMENT!

Now, would I take that over a CLS? NOPE! The CLS buries the bland 430. Have you seen the CLS in light or medium gray?

lorinserbenz

The 430 is a nice car with the top down, but it looks funky with it up.
If you want a convertible why not look at the CLK? Much better looking IMHO..

CaptMike

Thanks for the reply, yes I have seen and sat in the CLS. While the exterior (could) grow on me, the interior is not for me.

MB Fanatic

I wouldn't get the SC430. As others have stated their is too much wind buffeting, the engine feels lethargic, and the car looks so bland, simply no character. If anything I would get an E500 or E350 fully loaded if I were you.

CaptMike

I'm "done" for awhile the Mercedes products. I have had 2 years of complaints.

CaptMike

So, you have driven the SC with the top up and down?

No more Mercedes products for me for a while.

MB Fanatic

My sister had an SC430, so its safe to say that I have driven with the top up and down. Quiet when the top is up, and downright scary with the top down. Trust me owning a first year car is a bad idea with any manufacturer. The new E and CLK for 2005 have fixed their quality problems. The CLK is probably one of the most reliable Mercedes around.

steph280

Well if convertible is a requirement and you want something fun to drive, there are lots of choices.

Honda S2000
Nissan 350Z cabrio
BMW M3 cabrio (can I say the B word on this forum?)
Audi TT
Porsche Boxster
Lotus Elise (one sweeeeeet ride!)

Brav

If he drives an E320 now, and wants a lexus, I don't think an S2000, M3 cab or an Elise are anything that he'd be looknig for. He is looking for RIDE quality, of which all of these lack.

The Z cab is pretty ugly with the top up. But more roadster style. Coupes are nice..

Boxter might be decent choice, but pretty spartan interior, under powered, and poor man's carerra., and probably too stiff.

I think hes looking for more of a roadster than a sports car.

Get an XLR
Or stay with MB with a CLK or SL(K)

CaptMike

Brav-Thanks for the reply, yup....you beet me to it...

I have driven the 350Z and did not like it for its (I'm very picky) brushed chrome interior and the sliver painted exterior door handles.

The Honda and Lotus are waayyyyy out of the question.....to small.

My Wife has 325i (03) and it has it's problems.- I do want to put up with a cd changer that is not in dash.

Boxter or Audi don't fit the bill for me due to, among other things, they are soft tops.

TPAbnz

A Lexus review from the London Times:

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...600870,00.html

DWP

It's a GS430 review. Skipping lightly over the reviewer's adventures with an 11-year-old Japanese girl, and getting right to the heart of the matter:

"Unfortunately, I didn’t like it at all, partly because it’s about as attractive as a sponsored town centre roundabout and partly because Lexuses these days are driven by people who play golf, or people who like to slap their hos and drive around at night shooting at business rivals with submachineguns. Gangstas? Golfers? I don’t want to look like either.

Mostly, though, I don’t like this car because it feels like a facsimile of the real thing. And that’s hardly surprising because that’s exactly what it is. A copy. A Mercedes clone.

... Oh sure, they can copy a Mercedes and use it to earn vast lumps of foreign currency, but how do you copy flair and panache and feel? The simple answer is: you can’t, so you end up with a completely soulless driving experience.

It’s a bit like those vegetarians who insist on eating hamburgers that are designed to look, feel and taste like the real thing. But they’re just not.

Technically, this new Lexus is probably better than a Mercedes, in the same way that a golden egg made by laser is going to be technically better than one of Karl Fabergé’s originals. But which one would you rather have?"

glojo

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

I must confess that it is so refreshing to read reviews where the journalist is not dazzled by the free trips, food and drink.

John

MB Fanatic

That was a refreshing read on the GS430. It is about time someone delivered a blistering attack on Lexus. I simply don't understand why people are so amazed at the products Lexus has to offer. They have no styling, no character, and no passion. The day the can design their own car and not copy Mercedes is the day I might buy one. Until then, I will stay a true believer in German automobiles.

Brav

Gotta love the britts - dead honest review, love it!

Reviews here are way too watered down and "PC" - I think the mfgs practically write them for the drivers anyway

TPAbnz

And without obligatory, obsessive, and politically correct strictures. This isn't the type of thing one finds in Car & Driver!

John, you certainly enjoy a lively press !

glojo

And don't forget George Galloway!!!! (I cannot stand the man, but he certainly cannot be misunderstood )

Regards,
John

A cool, sunny, beautiful morning in Torquay

Edit:
The web camera link is now of a very poor quality and does not like bright sunshine.

DWP

George Galloway is the British Member of Parliament who recently (5/17) told a U.S. Senate committee exactly what he thought of allegations that he had been Saddam Hussein's poodle. Lucky for George that he has immunity, otherwise he might be wearing sandals and an orange jumpsuit right about now.

glojo

Sorry for my off topic post,
I actually watched the whole thing live, and the committee made it clear before they started the examination that he was there as a private citizen and not as a British Member of Parliament.

I watched because I just knew what he would say, I have no idea of how your committee's work, but they clearly 'had a tiger by the tail' and had forgotten that tigers have teeth....

I thought Mr Levin (or do you call them Senator?) came over very well and managed to score a pont, but it was a very one sided mismatch.

As I previously said, I do not like Mr Galloway, but I do enjoy listening to his rhetoric. Incidentally a number of British national newspapers have come unstuck in a similar fashion making exactly the same allegations as was heard yesterday. Lucky the committee cannot be sued?

Regards,
John

1SICKLEX

Clarkson lets ANYONE have it, he had a Ferrari and I think drives a SL65 now.
THe GS has gotten great reviews everywhere, the car has no glaring flaws.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...08/pageId=62798

1. Lexus GS 430
2. Acura Rl
3. Infintii M45 Sport

Introduction

By Scott Oldham
Date posted: 02-28-2005

After years of barking up different trees, recent redesigns of the 2006 Infiniti M45, 2006 Lexus GS 430 and 2005 Acura RL have landed this trio of luxury-laden super sedans at the foot of the same birch.

Not only are all three built in Japan to an unquestionable high level of quality, each packs at least 300 horsepower, an automanual transmission, keyless ignition, an electronic stability system and enough interior volume to haul five Grave Digger fans and their full foam coolers to the monster truck jam. Oh yeah, and all three cost about $50 grand.

But which one should you spend your hard-earned money on? To find out we ordered up one of each and lived in them for one week. We also took them to the track and performed our usual battery of instrumented testing.

And after all that, the winner was clear. Sort of. Meet the cars.

2006 Infiniti M45 Sport
The Infiniti is the hot rod of this group. It has the largest and most powerful engine, the largest wheels and tires, the most powerful brakes, the firmest suspension, and it outaccelerates the others like they're tied to a post. It's also the most entertaining to drive, with a transmission that actually matches revs like a good driver does when downshifting a true manual, and a well-balanced chassis that rewards advanced driving technique.

Our Infiniti M45 Sport was also sportier on the inside than the others, with the firmest and most heavily bolstered seats, a prominently placed tachometer and real aluminum trim instead of the more traditional wood that adorns the interiors of the Lexus and the Acura.

On the downside? Some on staff feel too much tire noise makes it into the Infiniti's interior and its steering isn't as refined as the GS 430's or the Acura's.

2006 Lexus GS 430
The Lexus carries a base price of $51,125, which makes it almost $2 grand more than the others. But that extra expense is more than justified by traditional Lexus attention to detail and sweet workmanship. The GS 430 is built like a fine watch and runs just as smoothly. Its interior is a wonderful mix of fine leather, rich wood and simplistic design. Its forms may not be as artful as the other two, but the materials used and its ergonomics are far superior.

With 300 hp from its 4.3-liter V8 and the only six-speed transmission of the group, the Lexus performs as well. It accelerates hard enough to push you back into the seat, and leaves the equally powerful Acura in the dust. Its suspension, which can be adjusted firmer with a switch on the console, is also tuned to near perfection, delivering a supple highway ride and athletic reflexes.

Flaws are limited to very grabby brakes, which make it hard to stop smoothly, and a very aggressive stability control system, which cannot be shut down.

2005 Acura RL
The Acura's story is value. For the as-tested price of $49,470, the RL comes with such luxuries as a navigation system with voice-command capability, satellite radio, a power sunroof, a power rear sunshade and a premium 10-speaker audio system, all of which cost extra on the Infiniti and the Lexus. And it's the only car in this test with all-wheel drive (the Lexus and Infiniti are rear-wheel drive).

The Acura is quick, and it can be surprisingly fun to toss around, but it's just not as focused on performance as the other two. It's powered by the only V6 engine in the test, and it doesn't have as much grunt off the line as the V8s in the other cars. It also doesn't handle as well as the others despite its all-wheel drive, and its brakes are the most easily overheated.

Some also feel the Acura's interior materials and décor aren't up to the RL's $50,000 price tag, and its seats, which are the softest and least bolstered of the bunch, just aren't sporty enough for a sport sedan.

Lexus Wins a Close One
Here's the reality: Anyone from Tony Stewart to Martha Stewart would be happy owning any one of these three cars. They're all that good.

So good, that after all our driving, after all our note taking and score keeping and track testing and long-winded discussions about cupholders and trailing-throttle oversteer and rear-seat legroom, all three finished within four points of each other. Four points out of 100.

Basically, for all intents and purposes, it was a tie.

Still, on paper, it's the Lexus that comes out on top. Its combination of performance, luxury and astonishing attention to detail cannot be ignored. It's a car worthy of its price premium over the others, and it's a car anyone would be proud to own. But the Acura RL has run a very close second, very close, and the Infiniti M45 Sport a close third.
[

glojo

Jeremy Clarkson has a number of vehicles. It is hard to keep up with what he actually owns. To my knowledge he has a Range Rover, Mercedes-Benz SL55AMG and should by now have received his Ford GT40.

He enjoys being outspoken, but in fairness he will call 'a spade a spade'. If he likes a car, he says so. If he dislikes it, then he will leave you in no doubt about why he dislikes it.

He is not 'snobbish' in his reviews and will give a good review to a cheap everyday runabout IF it deserves it.

Having read the Lexus review I believe he gave an opinion, he certainly did not criticise its reliability.

In the area that I live we do not see any Lexus, they are still considered a top of the range Toyota and have not managed to penetrate the Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi market.

I accept Lexus is a nice car, I also accept it might well not have the electrical problems that have been seen in the 211.

I will not however go looking to find where the nearest Lexus dealer is located, solely because I like European motor cars.

This is my personal opinion, but I respect everyones choice and the Lexus is no doubt an extremely capable vehicle.

Regards,
John
A wet cool morning in Torquay