CE750

My lease just ran out on my second car, and I really want to replace it with a E320 CDI, from all that I've read it's a great car.

BUT..

I understand a V6 is coming in '06 with 20 more hp.... So I wonder if I should wait? OR go with the current '05 and beat the very likely price increase?

I've always thought of a diesel as a straight-6 and not a V6, and from everything I've been told straight-6 will usually last longer and run smoother...

Anyone have any opinion on this? And more over, does the '05 have the same particulate filter and other modern improvements as the '06? Or are they worlds apart in technology?

Thanks all.. I hope to decide by the end of next week.

Sam

CE750

Ok, I guess there are no opinions on this... I'll go with my gut instinct and get the '05.

shoes

I have heard the same advice, that the straight six is the more reliable configuration. Notice that Mercedes just completed a world record with their new V6 diesel, I suppose to dispel the notion that the new engine is any less reliable than the old one. Lately though, if you were to err on the side of getting the old model on any Mercedes you seem to be assured of greater reliability. I have the inline six and it is a fantastic engine although I am having some issues with fuel line leaks and my dealer tells me that I am not the only one.

CE750

Thanks for the reply, I did get the I-6 and I believe that it's going to be a more robust engine that the V6, iron block, and proven design. I also heard of the fuel line leaks... they say you'll smell a strong diesel odor when you park in your garage if you have the leak... but they apparently have a fix for it. I will take mine in for oil every 6500K and have them inspect those lines every time.

I am now looking at the RennTech software tuning that will yield 30+ hp and 40+ ft/lb torque more at same fuel economy as a $1200 option... Renntech claims performance on par with the E500 out of the car.

Exciting time for me now.

khaug

I would be very careful indeed screwing around with aftermarket chips for the CDI. Try searching for posts by Viesel from c. 4-5 months ago.

The '05 CDI is a 150 mph car as sold in Europe. For the USA, we get a 130 mph speed limiter and "H" rated tires. I've found my CDI has very satisfactory performance and would never inflict on it an aftermarket chip of unknown quality in an attempt to achieve the small increment of performance improvement the chip makers promise (but often can't deliver).

Just my two cents worth, but based on 20 years of exposure to aftermarket chips in students' cars I've ridden in as a performance driving instructor.

And yes. the '05 CDI is a great car, IMHO!

Nevada Jack

I would buy the new technology. Also, the new V6 diesel may be introduced with the new facelifted E class. And from Viesel's experience I would not fool with any "chips" or you may be at the dealer more than you are on the road. The current straight 6 is a great engine but the new V6 might be greater yet. The recent endurance tests in the US for the new V6 are impressive.

CE750

I will look up viesels posts... You got me thinking... I just figured a reputable house like RennTech wouldn't put out any BS upgrades that can ruin a car, as they are just an extension of AMG, are they not? Anyway, I have till wed to make up my mind of the 15% more HP and 10% more torque promised for the $1295, so if you have any other info to share to sway me away from doing this, please feel free to present it to me.

I will share my results of what I do either way.

saffrontiger

Sam,
Enjoy the great powerband you already have. Tons of that torque especially around the city is great. My suggestion is not to tempt fate.

CE750

After reading Viesels story, I am leaning that way... though the controversy is whether his problems occurred pre or post chip tuning.

I also read on this board that Brabus has a $4000 upgrade that "keeps the warranty" and was ready to spend the extra for it under that assumption, but called them and they said that indeed the warrantee is void, but they would cover the repairs. He also said that the sure way to avoid problems is to do it when the car is new, not to wait past 1000 miles, which is interesting. Renntech has much the same deal but for $1295.

I am thinking I will try to track down a CDI owner who did one of those, and get feedback directly from them before I tempt fate. Either way, "IF" I do it, it will be Renntech or Brabus, not some no name $300 chip.

Nevada Jack

If you wanted more HP and torque, you should have waited for the V6. I don't understand why you want to chip a already powerful diesel engine? Not being critical but I can understand someone wanting to chip a V8 gas engine, but why hype a diesel sedan?

apinti

How about Carlsson or Tunigbox? They both offer "plug and drive" boxes which we should be able to remove when we go in for service. Carlsson is supposed to be a reputable diesel tuner in Germany and their price is $1600. I am also looking for option for tuning my CDI. Why? Is for that range between 700 and 1800 rpm were the turbo lag is felt the most. I would love to get rid of that hesitation that is so annoying.

Green E-300 DT

It is indeed too bad that Viesel had problems and that has spoiled
it all for you lucky people who have the newer CDIs.

Once MBZ discovers that your computer has been modified, I think they will try and not honor their original warranty regardless of how much you paid for or who did the modification. They do have to be able to point to what was modified as causing whatever problem the car may be experiencing however to deny warranty.
That is the law.

As far as a 'no name $300 chip,' that is the way I went with my E-300 and I am not sorry.

If your CDIs respond anywheres near as well as my older E-300 did when I went
that route, you'll all be singing the praises of that little $300 price tag.

To the fellow that said he couldn't understand why anyone would chip an already powerful diesel engine,
I say 'why not?'
In my case, my car does what I ask of it so much easier than it did before,
one wonders why it didn't come from the factory that way to begin with.

Viesel did some other things to that car which to my way of thinking were not to swift. i e . .
Slamming it, and adding way oversize wheels and low profile tires. This is not the way to go IMHO,
especially with a diesel where the more or less primary concerns are with high fuel economy.

I've read reports of how whatever chip was added to that car (6518) was removed each
and every time that car was taken back to the dealership for repairs.
The dealer knew this was occuring, and yet they went ahead and tried to correct the
surging problem which Viesel 'said' was occuring prior to the car first being chipped.
No one ever knew who supplied the chipping modification except the owner Viesel and a few of his closest friends.
I think it may have been some sort of a ' plug and play' arrangement because I seriously doubt the computer
was removed and sent to a programmer each time prior to it being returned to the dealer.
No one ever proved that chipping that car was or did cause the surging problem, and the
last I heard was that ol 6518 was still doing that same thing with the new owner.

Please don't allow the sad experiences of that one owner spoil your experiences with this fine car. You do know that Viesel never replaced it with another CDI although he did say at the time that he planned on doing so via ED.
Doesn't that tell you something about him?

If any of you wish to waste hundreds of dollars going with these big name chippers,
that's up to you, but I think you'll be wasting your money.
There are simply too many good programmers around that do know what they
are doing, and know how to do it well. After all, this is not rocket science!

CE750

Well here is the deal... the RENNTech chip is as good as it gets, right from the back door of AMG and completely factory designed settings that were simply not applied for the final version of the 3.2 I-6 for many reasons, not the least of which is to stretch ever bit of economy out of it.

I took the car in and had the Dealer recommended shop first "Dyno" the car and they came up with 150 hp to the rear wheels, and 270 torque to the rear wheels.
After downloading the software and sending it to Germany (they did this via internet and in the timespan of 1 hour), the original program was first copied for safe keeping, then modified with the few items (99.5% remained original) to allow for the additional 30 hp and 40 torque (flywheel rating). With in 1 hour, the computer was back in the car, and the car was dyno(ed) again with very conclusive results... 20 more hp at the rear wheels, and 35 ft/lbs more torque.

The drive afterwords was like driving a totally different car. Smoother and faster in every way. I reset milage for a test run of 10 miles at freeway speeds of 65-75mph and got 36mpg... so the way I see it, this was a no brainer for $1300.

Finally, RennTech stands by their work, and IF (big IF, as noboday has ever filed a claim with them) the motor should fail due to their program... they will offset any costs that MB will not carry... again, no brainer.

So, with just two days of experience behind me, I give RENNTech a big thumbs up.

Finally, it's worth noting that that the AMG cars that MB puts out themselves are ALL modified at the ECU in the exact same way as the RENNTech mods are done. The only reason that MB isn't friendly to aftermarket tuning is that it interfears with their own sales of AMG programs (which are freely available in Germany, btw).

Lastly, to answer why I did it, and why I didn't get the V6... it's two fold... I don't care for V6 engines, inherently an I6 is more torqy and smoother, and yet, I wanted the additional power... so now I have the best of both (IMHO).

Thanks to all who weighed in.

I wonder if Viesel would share with us who did his tuning, anyway? But I'll bet you it wasn't RENNTech, Kleeman, or Brabus if the ECU was indeed the reasonf or his problems in the first place.

Green E-300 DT

Seems like the factory may be stretching the truth a tad when it comes to their ratings for the stock 3.2L CDIs. 150 hp seems to me to be too little, and the factory rating of 369 ft/lb wasn't even close on yours.
What you got after the Renntech programming should have been there when the motor car was still stock.

Isn't it going to be some time before the V6 3.0L CDI arrives here in N A ?

Interesting that you do not care for the newer V6 (3.0L) motor. It supposedly puts out more
horsepower and torque according to the factory if we can believe what they are saying.

I had the feeling that the 3.2 CDI I-6 demo that I drove did not have the advertised power,
put I thought that it was probably due to the newness of the car, and the higher
rear-end gearing when compared to my older W-210 E-300.

I doubt very much if Mr. Viesel will be forthcoming with any further information.
He wasn't free with what he knew back then, and in fact actually went
back and deleted much of what he had originally posted.
Seems as if he wasn't telling it like it really was.

Has anyone ever heard of any other cars having the problem that Viesel's car was having?
I don't think that there are any others.

"The drive afterwords was like driving a totally different car. Smoother and faster in every way. "
I couldn't agree more.
For those of you who go ahead and follow Sam's lead, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner!
At least that's what I say to myself every time I jump on my older chipped E-300.
I should have modified it much sooner.

CE750

Hey Green, just a quick clarification on my Dyno numbers... the 150hp is inline with the 201 quoted (Actually a bit better) as those figures were "at the rear wheels" and not "at the flywheel" which is where Bhp (or Brake Horse Power) is quoted by manufacturers. For example a 302hp E500, is more like a 220hp car at the rear axle when to take out the 30-35% reduction in power used up by the drive train (drag), and a 4Matic is even hit harder.

My numbers after the tuning represent about a 10% across the board increase in "excess power" which translates to more than a 10% increase in performance due to reasons beyond the scope of this topic.

Green E-300 DT

Agreed.

Now how do you get the rest of the fellows to follow suit?

Do you have a problem now with traction 'out-of-the-hole?
In other words, does yours' have a tendency to spin the tires from a dead stop?

The CDI is quicker than the Volvo, isn't it?

CE750

I don't need anyone to follow suit to justify my decision, for all I care they can add a supercharger, I am satisfied with the results I got. Time well tell if I have to use my warranty with Renntech or MB to fix any issues. But I doubt it since, like I've said before 1000's of people (especially) in Germany already run these chips in their cars, and in the case of Germany, at speeds of 130+ without a problem over the past several years. In Europe this type of thing is more common, and yet ironically they don't have the protection of the law that we have here.

I did a lot of research on this before I took the plunge, and I also spoke directly to two guys who did it about 1 year ago each and both were ecstatic about their $1300 spent.

In Europe if you tune your new car, you void all of your motor warrantee, whereas here the manufacturer has to prove that the "oil leak" or "fuel line leak" is due to the Chip and not their design/manufacturing.

As for the Volvo, the T6 is no slouch at 0-60 in 8.9 (for a 4900lb SUV).. but for being a 2.9L twin turbo I-6 isn't not as impressive as the MB motor with only the one turbo... The Volvo also suffers from a horrible transmission (4 speeds only).

As for tire spin... I don't plan to hit the gas (diesel) that hard for a few more mile yet... The one or two times we took it up for the Dyno was enough for me on the aggressive rpms for a while.


Take care

Sam

Green E-300 DT

Of course you don't!
I was only using your rather positive comments to try and
get others to see how much better off their cars will run.

You do know who makes the transmission for your T6?

I didn't care for it either in my '99 T6. That car simply didn't measure up to my Yellow T5R.

Enjoy!

Viesel

Well guys I guess you will never understand how one can be so frustrated when you drop a check for 51k for a car and the damn thing leaves you stranded on the side of the road 2 weeks later on a sunday morning when you are on the way to an event that you need to be at and finally when you get the car running and give your family and friends a ride and it stalls on you with 4 others in the car its quite embarrising. My problem with the cdi started about a week after I bought it. I thought nothing of it when it was a slight hesitation. I took it in and they claimed to have fixed it and it seemed to be fine. Then I chipped it and the same problem was still acting up and after a few attemps to have it fixed I had the chip removed back to stock and the problem was still the same, with or without the chip. If your car was in the shop for a total of 7 straight weeks I think anyone would be just as pissed as I was. The surging problem started way before the chip. I truely thought that it was a very simple fix so I didnt think that chipping it would be an issue until I learned that they were still unable to find the problem. The dealer knew of the chip, I told them and asked them point blank what they thought and they even agreed that the chip was not the issue. They even swapped out the ECUs and it still did the same problem.
Anyways, no I didnt buy another one. I ran into a guy from the service department at a party and he told me that there were several cdis with some issues and I should wait for the 06s to come out. Since then I have purchased something else and yeah I really miss the CDI but maybe some day I will trade for another one when they have some history behind them.
I truely believe these cars are an awesome work of art, I just think mine had something wrong that the mechanics didnt know anything about and was unable to find in the weeks that they had it. It was the second cdi that landed in the state of Florida and the mechanics had never had any training on them or even seen them before.
Ohh the chip tuning was Speedtuningusa.com.....

CE750

Thanks Viesel, I'm sure the chip had nothing to do with your problem... I too heard that they made some changes to the car begining with build date Jan '05.. Mine is a March '05, probably identical to the '06.. I think the V6 will be out with the '07, but I could be wrong.. it may infact be earlier. I have always prefered the I-6 to the V6 (I've owned two Volvo's with I-6) and made the choice to get the '05 for that reason alone, as I had been under the impression that the '06 was going to be the V6.

Better luck with your next car... so far I can say (1000 or so miles) that my car is running just fine with the "chip".