MB management refinement…
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by CE750
Lets face it Harley.. the W211 looks are going to be a hard act to follow inside and out..
I totally agree with you... I've had my ride for a year and a half now and still admire it's lines. The minute I saw this car (like my wife), I knew I had to have it.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
11 W212 E350 Sport, sold 06 W211 E350
I think the Lexus interior is nice, but it is not inspiring and looks somewhat dated, the new S interior could be a little better too, at least from the look in the photo, but it does look very clean lined and more up to date, less "plasticky" than the Lexus, as Nevada Jack said. It has grown on me as I have seen more photos. The wood, the silver buttons and flow of the design look contemporary and well made. I have to admit I prefer more buttons and am not yet a fan of the "i-drive" type joystick. I still prefer the E interior and the 2006 S interior to the new S interior.
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From: USA
Multiple
Originally Posted by HELL ONA HARLEY
rjm.... what ya drive bro??? Do you own an MB???? or are you a lexus man. I don't see what you drive in your profile.
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Originally Posted by rjm
I drove an MB E-430 for the last 5 years. Nice car but in the shop too much. A month ago the Transmission Control Module and Harness went out rendering the transmission inop with only 32,000 miles on it...after a $3000 service bill (paid for by my Extended Warranty) I traded it in on the Lexus LS430...much nicer car in every respect and much more fun and reliable to drive. I also have a 2003 BMW 530i (this car has been trouble-free). I'm just waiting for the new MB CEO to turn the company around (may take a few years) and produce a quality product once again that doesn't have to spend 1/2 of the time in the shop. I just read the sad stories on this forum and scratch my head, wondering if there is any hope for the future of Mercedes-Benz.
There seems to be a tendency to "bash" MB (in some cases it is valid) in these forums for their design directions, management, quality faults and many other things. However, for a company as old as MB, I cannot understand why people think it is going to crash and burn in the next couple of years. All great companies have their good years and their bad years but most come out stronger in the end. Mercedes Benz will be around after we are all gone making the best automobiles in the world and many of us driving them with great pride and pleasure.
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Nevada Jack: I don't think rjm is saying Mercedes will crash and burn in the last few years, I think he's actually saying they will dramatically improve over the next few years with the new management. 
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Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
I think we all feel that way Ricky...be nice to read nothing but "happy talk" about our favorite toys...:-)
I've always seen the three companies (Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes) like this.
Lexus makes fantastic cars no doubt, but they are seriously disconnected from the road. Which isn't a bad thing though, it's a different audience.
BMW makes really nice cars as well, but they are a little too connected to the road. You can feel every little jitter.
Mercedes is the perfect balance when making cars. They aren't as smooth as the Lexus, but they aren't as rough as the BMW's.
Each company has a different target audience, that's why we have a few of each
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Lexus makes fantastic cars no doubt, but they are seriously disconnected from the road. Which isn't a bad thing though, it's a different audience.
BMW makes really nice cars as well, but they are a little too connected to the road. You can feel every little jitter.
Mercedes is the perfect balance when making cars. They aren't as smooth as the Lexus, but they aren't as rough as the BMW's.
Each company has a different target audience, that's why we have a few of each
BMW makes really nice cars as well, but they are a little too connected to the road. You can feel every little jitter.
Mercedes is the perfect balance when making cars. They aren't as smooth as the Lexus, but they aren't as rough as the BMW's.
Each company has a different target audience, that's why we have a few of each
Totally agree....
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
What you don't read on this forum is how many W211 drivers are totally happy with their cars and have had very few problems with them. I am one of those who happens to post and could not be more pleased with my 2003 late build E320.
I'm also one of those happy customers as well.... I also agree that we tend to hear of the complaints as anger and discontent is a great motivator.
rjm... Kinda figured you were a Lexus man... Looked up some of your previous posts and it seems you bash.... or should I say report negatively to anyone who will listen... Don't get me wrong, you have every right to do so especially after your tranny problems, but your posts do support Nevada Jacks claims as well as mine about the negitave reports here. Its obvious and admitted that you still would like to be driving a Mercedes, but I personally think your wasting your time waiting for this rebirth or turn around.... Their building fine cars now and your missing the boat.
Anyway, to each their own and goodluck with the Lexus...
B.T.W.... I feel the compairison of your "new" lexus with your old E430 is apple and oranges.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Here is a forum truism, and I am proof of it.
If I post a positive thread... which I've done at least 5 or so on the CDI.. I get one or two replies and very little conversation that I can both learn from and some times teach others...
If I post a thread where I have a problem.. the thread catches fire...
It's just the nature of forums that the people who typically get on them are more likely to be picky, hold their vehicle to a higher than normal standard, and in many cases have problem they want to complain about (which Harley knows I've done personally
)
I could make a post about how much I love my car and all of it's engineering features, but I gurantee you that by the time three people reply to it.. we'll be arguing about SBC, electronics, and (yes, Steve :p even the dreaded "touch screen NAV") among other things..
It never stays positive!
If I post a positive thread... which I've done at least 5 or so on the CDI.. I get one or two replies and very little conversation that I can both learn from and some times teach others...
If I post a thread where I have a problem.. the thread catches fire...
It's just the nature of forums that the people who typically get on them are more likely to be picky, hold their vehicle to a higher than normal standard, and in many cases have problem they want to complain about (which Harley knows I've done personally
)I could make a post about how much I love my car and all of it's engineering features, but I gurantee you that by the time three people reply to it.. we'll be arguing about SBC, electronics, and (yes, Steve :p even the dreaded "touch screen NAV") among other things..
It never stays positive!
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From: SoCal OC
S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
You gotta be kidding. The Lexus LS430 interior look boring and cheap (but I'm sure it will probably last forever & easy to use). I think the only LS interior that look somewhat decent is the ultra luxury version, with black wood & GPS. The one you post look like it come straight out from a Camry or Avalon. Nothing to write home about. Checking the LS against the camry interio, and you'll see what I mean
The new S interior look expensive & classy, but boring.
Want something that look classy, exciting, high quality, and expensive. Try the Audi L8.
The new S interior look expensive & classy, but boring.
Want something that look classy, exciting, high quality, and expensive. Try the Audi L8.
Originally Posted by rjm
Check out this interior and make your choice....it's a new Lexus LS430.
I'll take the Lexus!
I'll take the Lexus!
Last edited by zam2000; Aug 29, 2005 at 02:01 AM.
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From: San Diego
E500
and it (Lexus) gets worse...
I'm always amazed at the quality of Audi's interiors - very clean and not overstated which was why my previous car was an Audi. Looking at the new Lexus interior though conjures some very bad memories of previous Ford cars that I had owned right out of school...so much happier with my MB E interrior.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
The Lexus (and other Japanese cars) are either too ordinary (i.e. LS430) or over the top with buttons and switch gear (Acura RL).. There's no happy middle.. Audi is the best I agree. MB's W211 is great! The W221 "may" grow on me, but I personally would vote for the BMW 7 over that.
BTW.. on that Lexus pic that RJM posted... my problem with it is, I can't see past the inside door handles.. they are IDENTICAL to the ones in the Camry .. with that silly door locking tab! For $59K sticker, I want NO parts from the Toyota parts bin.. The MB interiors are much more refined and unique. After watching Steve and Dean open up panels on my car, I'm even more impressed with the engineering and build quality of the car.
And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!
BTW.. on that Lexus pic that RJM posted... my problem with it is, I can't see past the inside door handles.. they are IDENTICAL to the ones in the Camry .. with that silly door locking tab! For $59K sticker, I want NO parts from the Toyota parts bin.. The MB interiors are much more refined and unique. After watching Steve and Dean open up panels on my car, I'm even more impressed with the engineering and build quality of the car.
And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!
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From: Northern NJ
2014 BMW 550i
One thing I'd like to point out about the LS interior in the shots above is that it does not include the nav screen in those shots, which I'm pretty sure is standard in the US. So you are seeing a slightly stripped version. With the big screen in the middle, it does look more modern in my opinion.
In terms of those lock tabs, I like that method better than what we have now. I had one of those break on me. Just got it replaced, and it was $13 a piece.
In terms of those lock tabs, I like that method better than what we have now. I had one of those break on me. Just got it replaced, and it was $13 a piece.
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I need to take a picture of ours, we have the UL package with black leather with the black shadowline ash wood. It's beautiful.
The only thing I don't like is the wood steering wheel, I'm a all leather kinda guy...
The only thing I don't like is the wood steering wheel, I'm a all leather kinda guy...
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by alewifebp
One thing I'd like to point out about the LS interior in the shots above is that it does not include the nav screen in those shots, which I'm pretty sure is standard in the US. So you are seeing a slightly stripped version. With the big screen in the middle, it does look more modern in my opinion.
In terms of those lock tabs, I like that method better than what we have now. I had one of those break on me. Just got it replaced, and it was $13 a piece.
In terms of those lock tabs, I like that method better than what we have now. I had one of those break on me. Just got it replaced, and it was $13 a piece.
no actually the Lexus in that pic belongs to a member named rjm who lives in Texas if I'm not wrong... and the Toyota below it looks so much like a Lexus, I didn't realize it wasn't until I looked again at the pics just now..
Face it, Lexus is Toyota.. nothing more.
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Originally Posted by CE750
\
no actually the Lexus in that pic belongs to a member named rjm who lives in Texas if I'm not wrong... and the Toyota below it looks so much like a Lexus, I didn't realize it wasn't until I looked again at the pics just now..
Face it, Lexus is Toyota.. nothing more.
no actually the Lexus in that pic belongs to a member named rjm who lives in Texas if I'm not wrong... and the Toyota below it looks so much like a Lexus, I didn't realize it wasn't until I looked again at the pics just now..
Face it, Lexus is Toyota.. nothing more.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
It is. So what?
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Originally Posted by CE750
member alewifebp was trying to say that the Lexus that is in the picture by rjm was a stripped non-US model... I was correcting him.
I thought you were trying to make another point about Lexus in general.. lol sorry.
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From: Northern NJ
2014 BMW 550i
I did check the website for Lexus, and the nav is in fact an option, but seems to be pretty much standard, more or less (you would probably be very hard pressed to find a non-Nav equipped LS in the area where I live). My original opinion still stands. I also agree that the A8 has the best interior, though.
rjm was also not the one making the assertion, either (that the Lexus looks like the Camry). It was zam2000. I also think that you were correct in your original assumption Ricky.
rjm was also not the one making the assertion, either (that the Lexus looks like the Camry). It was zam2000. I also think that you were correct in your original assumption Ricky.
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E500 4matic, 2014 GL320, 2013 C300, 2015 Stingray
while i really like my MB...
There are plenty on this forum that like to bash toyota/lexus, my guess is primarily because its a japanese car. All i can say is my mom is still driving the 1990 LS400 (1st year of production) with 170000 miles on it, and its still quieter than my e500. Now, our 1995 e320 didn't make it past 95000 mile mark w/o needing major engine work to repair an oil leak that we were told was common on those engines and the 1998 ML320 had window switch regulator replaced after it failed to put the window back up in 10 degree weather, and oh yes, i still have my original 1998 ML320 rusted factory lug nuts which i see on quite a few ML's.
STyling is definately a subjective thing, but you can't compare the two when it comes to quality IMO.
Aceman
STyling is definately a subjective thing, but you can't compare the two when it comes to quality IMO.
Aceman
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by aceman
There are plenty on this forum that like to bash toyota/lexus, my guess is primarily because its a japanese car. All i can say is my mom is still driving the 1990 LS400 (1st year of production) with 170000 miles on it, and its still quieter than my e500. Now, our 1995 e320 didn't make it past 95000 mile mark w/o needing major engine work to repair an oil leak that we were told was common on those engines and the 1998 ML320 had window switch regulator replaced after it failed to put the window back up in 10 degree weather, and oh yes, i still have my original 1998 ML320 rusted factory lug nuts which i see on quite a few ML's.
STyling is definately a subjective thing, but you can't compare the two when it comes to quality IMO.
Aceman
STyling is definately a subjective thing, but you can't compare the two when it comes to quality IMO.
Aceman
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... if reliability is your #1 criteria for a car... get a Japanese car.
After all a Rolls Royce is not as reliable as a Honda.. does that make the Rolls an inferior car? hmm...
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E500 4matic, 2014 GL320, 2013 C300, 2015 Stingray
Japanese vs. German...
but you said....
"And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!"
If they (MB's) are better made, shouldn't they be more reliable? I think MB's are better designs but not made anywhere near as well as their high-end japanese counterparts - THATS my take.
Aceman
"And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!"
If they (MB's) are better made, shouldn't they be more reliable? I think MB's are better designs but not made anywhere near as well as their high-end japanese counterparts - THATS my take.
Aceman
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by aceman
but you said....
"And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!"
If they (MB's) are better made, shouldn't they be more reliable? I think MB's are better designs but not made anywhere near as well as their high-end japanese counterparts - THATS my take.
Aceman
"And as in another thread.. I made the very valid point that if you compare Japanese cars in how their built (over all), it's evident the Germans are better made.. For example the Honda Accord which is the EXACT same dimensions as the E350 and has roughly the same size motor weighs some 400lbs less, and that's with all of the Aluminum panels on the MB to boot!! How can you account for all that weight if not in build quality and materials? The MB drives very nibbley too with all of that weight!"
If they (MB's) are better made, shouldn't they be more reliable? I think MB's are better designs but not made anywhere near as well as their high-end japanese counterparts - THATS my take.
Aceman
For example the Russian made AK-47 was poorly made, but it was more reliable than the American made M-16 because the tolerances were loose and this meant it didn't jam up as easily. This may not directly translate to the auto debate, but it makes the point that well made and reliable are not the same thing..
If you want reliable.. drive a Honda.. if you want well made drive a Benz... Where else do you think that extra weight is? Materials, and re-enforced safety cage is all I can think off, since the body panels of the MB are aluminum to begin with!
