Benz has good looks but poor quality
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
OK rjm.. I spent about 15 minutes on a lexus forum (which I'm sure you're a member) and did some searches.. came up with these (there were in excess of 500 pages more..) But I just don't have the time..
Bottom line.. Lexus IS MORE reliable than MB... but not by a as much as you want to believe.. to quote the JD Power info..
I would hardly call that a disaster for MB!
Also.. here's a sampling of LS430 and other Lexus problems on OTHER boards...
Sounds system problems
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161072
LS430 won't start
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139264
Key's failing on LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156767
Harsh rise on LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152497
Park Assist acting up LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151341
Lights have moisture in them (also not the comment about MB having "cutting edge tech")
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145145
Folding mirrors fail LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141964
LS430 with multiple issues
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141764
LS430 multiple problems
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show....php?t=140469&
Looks like a lexus version of rjm
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131493
Transmission blown at 105,000
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178517
Automatic AC not working right
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178237
Tranmission software to make shift softer not doing it..
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87068
Oil leak at 45000
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178096
Car wont reverse
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178211
Brake peddle noise
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154152
Starter failed
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177963
97' ES has a "lot of problems" since it's a new model year.. hmm... can we say '03 W211?
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178073
Also read this:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...5&article=7159
Bottom line.. Lexus IS MORE reliable than MB... but not by a as much as you want to believe.. to quote the JD Power info..
In the J.D. Power 2004 Initial Quality Survey of auto nameplates, Mercedes-Benz ranked No. 10 with 106 problems per 100 vehicles. Toyota's premium Lexus brand ranked No. 1 with 87 problems.
Also.. here's a sampling of LS430 and other Lexus problems on OTHER boards...
Sounds system problems
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161072
LS430 won't start
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139264
Key's failing on LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156767
Harsh rise on LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152497
Park Assist acting up LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151341
Lights have moisture in them (also not the comment about MB having "cutting edge tech")
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145145
Folding mirrors fail LS430
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141964
LS430 with multiple issues
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141764
LS430 multiple problems
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show....php?t=140469&
Looks like a lexus version of rjm
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131493
Transmission blown at 105,000
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178517
Automatic AC not working right
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178237
Tranmission software to make shift softer not doing it..
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87068
Oil leak at 45000
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178096
Car wont reverse
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178211
Brake peddle noise
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154152
Starter failed
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177963
97' ES has a "lot of problems" since it's a new model year.. hmm... can we say '03 W211?
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178073
Also read this:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...5&article=7159
Though they compete in only a relative handful of niches, Nissan's Infiniti division and Mercedes-Benz were the top-scoring brands in the 2004 TQI. Meanwhile, Volkswagen ranked tops among full-line carmakers, those that compete in most or all product segments.
Last edited by CE750; 09-14-2005 at 10:59 AM.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Sam -
Your disdain for Japanese cars cracks me up. The truth is that out of all the cars I have ever owned - a Japanese one is my favorite.
My 2002 Honda S2000 has been unbelievably good. Feels great - handles remarkably well (my S2000 and I are the WWSCC IA autocross champs for 2004 + and I'm going to repeat in 2005 ) and in over three years has never once had anything but routine maintenance.
I do agree that Japanese cars don't have the prestiege of some German marques but IMO a badge is the wrong reason to buy a car.
It's all about buying the right tool for the job. M-B cars clearly fit your needs. I'm happy you're happy.
To the original poster: Sorry to hear that your car is giving you so many problems. It seems that early W211s had more than their fair share of issues. Mine certainly did.
Your disdain for Japanese cars cracks me up. The truth is that out of all the cars I have ever owned - a Japanese one is my favorite.
My 2002 Honda S2000 has been unbelievably good. Feels great - handles remarkably well (my S2000 and I are the WWSCC IA autocross champs for 2004 + and I'm going to repeat in 2005 ) and in over three years has never once had anything but routine maintenance.
I do agree that Japanese cars don't have the prestiege of some German marques but IMO a badge is the wrong reason to buy a car.
It's all about buying the right tool for the job. M-B cars clearly fit your needs. I'm happy you're happy.
To the original poster: Sorry to hear that your car is giving you so many problems. It seems that early W211s had more than their fair share of issues. Mine certainly did.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Sorry, I just find them completely BORING and without a Soul. Have felt that way for as long as I can remember, well before I could even drive.
rjm(other MB nay sayers) ... waiting on your rebuttal for my last post.
rjm(other MB nay sayers) ... waiting on your rebuttal for my last post.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
There are certainly a whole bunch of Japanese cars that are boring as hell - no doubt about that.
That doesn't mean that they are *all* boring, soulless appliances though.
Looking at your sig - it's a nice garage you have there. Having said that - if you're after vehicles with soul I can think of a few equivalents to what you currently own that will definitely put a smile on your face.
A nice alternative to the E would be the Infiniti M45. Kick *** car. Certainly not lacking in the soul department.
After driving an XC 90 I found the FX 45 way more entertaining. The interior of the FX isn't all that impressive but it gets down the road really well.
Never say never. I used to say "no American cars for me - ever"
The new Z06 is making me think about saving up some extra $$$. 505 HP and 3100 pounds?!? Wow. I'm clearly going to rethink that no American car thing...
That doesn't mean that they are *all* boring, soulless appliances though.
Looking at your sig - it's a nice garage you have there. Having said that - if you're after vehicles with soul I can think of a few equivalents to what you currently own that will definitely put a smile on your face.
A nice alternative to the E would be the Infiniti M45. Kick *** car. Certainly not lacking in the soul department.
After driving an XC 90 I found the FX 45 way more entertaining. The interior of the FX isn't all that impressive but it gets down the road really well.
Never say never. I used to say "no American cars for me - ever"
The new Z06 is making me think about saving up some extra $$$. 505 HP and 3100 pounds?!? Wow. I'm clearly going to rethink that no American car thing...
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Allow me to quote from the 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study released recently by J.D. Power and Associates:
"J.D. Power and Associates have released their 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study (VDS) and Lexus tops the list for the 11th straight year...The highest ranked vehicle was the Lexus LS430 which suffered from only 90 problems per 100 vehicles sold. The first vehicle in the history of the test to have less than one problem per unit sold."
As a comparison, Mercedes-Benz ranked 28th in the same study with 283 problems per 100 vehicles. I'd say that's a pretty stark difference.
Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid!
"J.D. Power and Associates have released their 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study (VDS) and Lexus tops the list for the 11th straight year...The highest ranked vehicle was the Lexus LS430 which suffered from only 90 problems per 100 vehicles sold. The first vehicle in the history of the test to have less than one problem per unit sold."
As a comparison, Mercedes-Benz ranked 28th in the same study with 283 problems per 100 vehicles. I'd say that's a pretty stark difference.
Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid!
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
There are certainly a whole bunch of Japanese cars that are boring as hell - no doubt about that.
That doesn't mean that they are *all* boring, soulless appliances though.
Looking at your sig - it's a nice garage you have there. Having said that - if you're after vehicles with soul I can think of a few equivalents to what you currently own that will definitely put a smile on your face.
A nice alternative to the E would be the Infiniti M45. Kick *** car. Certainly not lacking in the soul department.
After driving an XC 90 I found the FX 45 way more entertaining. The interior of the FX isn't all that impressive but it gets down the road really well.
Never say never. I used to say "no American cars for me - ever"
The new Z06 is making me think about saving up some extra $$$. 505 HP and 3100 pounds?!? Wow. I'm clearly going to rethink that no American car thing...
That doesn't mean that they are *all* boring, soulless appliances though.
Looking at your sig - it's a nice garage you have there. Having said that - if you're after vehicles with soul I can think of a few equivalents to what you currently own that will definitely put a smile on your face.
A nice alternative to the E would be the Infiniti M45. Kick *** car. Certainly not lacking in the soul department.
After driving an XC 90 I found the FX 45 way more entertaining. The interior of the FX isn't all that impressive but it gets down the road really well.
Never say never. I used to say "no American cars for me - ever"
The new Z06 is making me think about saving up some extra $$$. 505 HP and 3100 pounds?!? Wow. I'm clearly going to rethink that no American car thing...
BTW... not anti- Japanese here... I replaced a great set of German made Wusthof Knives with an even better set of Japanese KAI knives taht cost 3 times as much... I also use a Nikon D2, with Nikkor lenses, and not Zeiss...
I'm pretty objective in my views... the fact that a Toyota is 2 or 3 times as reliable is completely meaningless to me.. A Rolls Royce is even less reliable... so what?
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
Allow me to quote from the 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study released recently by J.D. Power and Associates:
"J.D. Power and Associates have released their 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study (VDS) and Lexus tops the list for the 11th straight year...The highest ranked vehicle was the Lexus LS430 which suffered from only 90 problems per 100 vehicles sold. The first vehicle in the history of the test to have less than one problem per unit sold."
As a comparison, Mercedes-Benz ranked 28th in the same study with 283 problems per 100 vehicles. I'd say that's a pretty stark difference.
Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid!
"J.D. Power and Associates have released their 2005 Vehicle Dependibility Study (VDS) and Lexus tops the list for the 11th straight year...The highest ranked vehicle was the Lexus LS430 which suffered from only 90 problems per 100 vehicles sold. The first vehicle in the history of the test to have less than one problem per unit sold."
As a comparison, Mercedes-Benz ranked 28th in the same study with 283 problems per 100 vehicles. I'd say that's a pretty stark difference.
Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid!
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Originally Posted by CE750
Not really... the data you site contradicts my data from JD.. so clearly this is a different survey..
Last edited by rjm; 09-14-2005 at 11:59 AM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
Your quoted from the 2004 Study.....my data is from the 2005 Study which has just recently been released.
I also read the MB basically told JD to kiss their ***.. since the survey asked about cup holders and brake dust!
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by CE750
Sat in the M45 two days ago... DID NOT impress me with the interior fit and finish, or materials.. that is a major part of why I like MB specifically, and German cars in general.
I, for one do not believe that you can get to the essence of a car by simply by sitting in it. You've got to drive it.
Fit and finish? Materials quality? I thought the M-B was nice. IMO the Audi is better put together than the M-B was and the materials are nicer. The M45 is pretty good in that department but the real pleasure of that car is in the driving.
Easlily fixed with software?!? Now I have to agree with rjm - you've been drinking the cool-aid for sure. :v
Last edited by lig; 09-14-2005 at 12:42 PM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
WHAAAAAATTT!!!!!
I regret not knowing more about the MB options when I bought my car, so I could have ordered my car with all of the stuff I wanted and saved some money on after market mods.. other than that I have no regrets. If I had bought anything else, I wouldn't be as happy, I'm sure.
Hope your as happy as I am with your wheels.. take care.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
I, for one do not believe that you can get to the essence of a car by simply by sitting in it. You've got to drive it.
Fit and finish? Materials quality? I thought the M-B was nice. IMO the Audi is better put together than the M-B was and the materials are nicer. The M45 is pretty good in that department but the real pleasure of that car is in the driving.
Easlily fixed with software?!? Now I have to agree with rjb - you've been drinking the cool-aid for sure. :v
Fit and finish? Materials quality? I thought the M-B was nice. IMO the Audi is better put together than the M-B was and the materials are nicer. The M45 is pretty good in that department but the real pleasure of that car is in the driving.
Easlily fixed with software?!? Now I have to agree with rjb - you've been drinking the cool-aid for sure. :v
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Originally Posted by CE750
I understand MB invested heavily in QC for 2004-2005, so we'll see how the 2006 survey comes in.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...86#post1272686
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again... MB's "quality issues" are mostly all about the poor exceution of software programming & design. The hardware is all "solid block of steel" quality, but the MB software people just haven't got a freakin' clue on how to make all of todays "gee-whiz" options work properly, dependably, and repetitively.
People have always joked about imagining if the "Windows 98 OS" ran your car, with all the constant rebooting & freeze-ups, and blue screens of death people had, would people stand for it like we do in the computer world...
If MB would only outsource the electronics design & programming to a Japanese company, the improvement would be immediate & measureable. ...but they don't, and rather than waiting for the Germans to fixi the stuff, MBUSA is removing as much of the "gee-whiz' stuff from the American Versions of the car so as to reduce owner complaints. The problem is, people want all the gee whiz options, and have been trained by the Japanese to expect it to work perfectly the 1st time & every time. People want a reliable 21st Century car... not the best damn 20th Century car possible. MB does not build the best damn 21st Century car, but they did build the best damn 20th Century car.
Outsource the electronics. You are no good at it, MB!
People have always joked about imagining if the "Windows 98 OS" ran your car, with all the constant rebooting & freeze-ups, and blue screens of death people had, would people stand for it like we do in the computer world...
If MB would only outsource the electronics design & programming to a Japanese company, the improvement would be immediate & measureable. ...but they don't, and rather than waiting for the Germans to fixi the stuff, MBUSA is removing as much of the "gee-whiz' stuff from the American Versions of the car so as to reduce owner complaints. The problem is, people want all the gee whiz options, and have been trained by the Japanese to expect it to work perfectly the 1st time & every time. People want a reliable 21st Century car... not the best damn 20th Century car possible. MB does not build the best damn 21st Century car, but they did build the best damn 20th Century car.
Outsource the electronics. You are no good at it, MB!
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Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... MB's "quality issues" are mostly all about the poor exceution of software programming & design.
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Mercedes all the way!
ah, then there's that strange ADAC survey that put Merc right in the top spot for reliability - in that case, meaning the number of times it breaks down i.e. refuses to start or go anywhere.
***WARNING: start rant/
the german/japanese quality debate is actually a huge oversimplification. i drive a nissan and i can tell you the quality is horrible. horrible. sure, on the surface it's fine, but look underneath and it's like a tin foil with uneven metal, rough welding, and paint ending very suddenly. the paintjob is bad. and water gets in the headlights (seems like lexus has this problem as well?). after just 3000km there's a knocking sound from the rear suspension, squeeks from the aircon compressor, and plastic shaking like crazy. and the engine's begun to vibrate badly. i don't know why.
as for audi - i've sat in the new A6, and that MMI knob is just too easy to turn - not enough resistance - feels cheap. and the switches click-clack like crazy, just like the first batch of A4s. NOT what i expected from what magazines like to call the master of interior quality.
and i run far, far away from japanese gadgets - the software interface is way too illogical - and touchscreens are nothing but a marketing point - give me a good button/cursor-driven interface anyday. that's why i always choose nokia over sony ericcson - sure, SE has all the new tech, but nokia has functions which make it much more useful as a serious phone.
toward that end, i'm happy to hear that MB have ditched Bosch for their COMMAND system and enlisted nokia - YES, that's the way to go!
the leather on lexus are nice, but stain, dirty, and wrinkle easily - especially here in the tropics, there are plenty where you can make out where the boss has been sitting just by the scratches. as for wood, they are nice, but not shaped in any artistic way - i get the feeling they're piling on the expensive stuff without any design ideas at all.
in fact, i think that's the whole reason behind their "soul-lessness".
as for BMW - well, lets just say i've heard enough horror stories from my friends not to consider one - serious stuff like getting locked inside and door seals failing on the highway. anyone sat in an X3? the plastics are so poor the bean counters deserve to be shot! seriously nasty stuff.
/end rant***
ok, all i'm saying is, i understand everyone's points above. i guess generally one could say that MB would have more problems than lexus. but for MOST people MB ownership is pain-free and happy - like mine. i sympathize with momsph for your problems. it's sad but true that loyal customers get lost through one bad experience. hope someone from MB is reading!
***WARNING: start rant/
the german/japanese quality debate is actually a huge oversimplification. i drive a nissan and i can tell you the quality is horrible. horrible. sure, on the surface it's fine, but look underneath and it's like a tin foil with uneven metal, rough welding, and paint ending very suddenly. the paintjob is bad. and water gets in the headlights (seems like lexus has this problem as well?). after just 3000km there's a knocking sound from the rear suspension, squeeks from the aircon compressor, and plastic shaking like crazy. and the engine's begun to vibrate badly. i don't know why.
as for audi - i've sat in the new A6, and that MMI knob is just too easy to turn - not enough resistance - feels cheap. and the switches click-clack like crazy, just like the first batch of A4s. NOT what i expected from what magazines like to call the master of interior quality.
and i run far, far away from japanese gadgets - the software interface is way too illogical - and touchscreens are nothing but a marketing point - give me a good button/cursor-driven interface anyday. that's why i always choose nokia over sony ericcson - sure, SE has all the new tech, but nokia has functions which make it much more useful as a serious phone.
toward that end, i'm happy to hear that MB have ditched Bosch for their COMMAND system and enlisted nokia - YES, that's the way to go!
the leather on lexus are nice, but stain, dirty, and wrinkle easily - especially here in the tropics, there are plenty where you can make out where the boss has been sitting just by the scratches. as for wood, they are nice, but not shaped in any artistic way - i get the feeling they're piling on the expensive stuff without any design ideas at all.
in fact, i think that's the whole reason behind their "soul-lessness".
as for BMW - well, lets just say i've heard enough horror stories from my friends not to consider one - serious stuff like getting locked inside and door seals failing on the highway. anyone sat in an X3? the plastics are so poor the bean counters deserve to be shot! seriously nasty stuff.
/end rant***
ok, all i'm saying is, i understand everyone's points above. i guess generally one could say that MB would have more problems than lexus. but for MOST people MB ownership is pain-free and happy - like mine. i sympathize with momsph for your problems. it's sad but true that loyal customers get lost through one bad experience. hope someone from MB is reading!
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Major component failures (engines, trannies, etc.) occur in all makes. For every so many they build there will be some that werent cast well, or some other part failed & caused a catastrophic failure. I don't think MB has a higher level of these failures that anyone else. (Even Toyota has them!) Most of the complaints & poor JD Powers reports are based on the electronics complaints. Nothing robs a car owner of pleasure more than intermittant/erratic operation of electronics components, some of whom actually can take a car out of service, or worse leave it stranded.
Even with their quality problems, no other car has MBs "snob appeal". There is something to that 100 year old tri-star that makes people look to see who's driving the car. ...and whether people admit it or not thats still at least part of the reason people buy them! The electronics will improve. They have to or the crown will pass to someone else. EVERYTHING, has a lifetime.
Even with their quality problems, no other car has MBs "snob appeal". There is something to that 100 year old tri-star that makes people look to see who's driving the car. ...and whether people admit it or not thats still at least part of the reason people buy them! The electronics will improve. They have to or the crown will pass to someone else. EVERYTHING, has a lifetime.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; 09-15-2005 at 12:28 AM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Thank God someone else jumped in here on the side of MB... I felt for a while that I was alone in seeing what I see.. Quality is subjective, in that it's about more than just how often something complex fails..
rjm.. is the 767 a unreliable piece of crap? How many write ups did you do on it in your years flying it? How many ships did you take with Differed this and Differed that... an MB is no different.
rjm.. is the 767 a unreliable piece of crap? How many write ups did you do on it in your years flying it? How many ships did you take with Differed this and Differed that... an MB is no different.
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2011 E550, 2013 GLK
I've been driving Mercedes since 1983. I buy them because they are one of the few marques that can be driven for years w/o forcing you to buy a new car. Very few makes can actually claim this to be true.
How many companies would manufacture new heads for a Gullwing? How many companies would provide parts for 25 years? This seems to be a European thing. Just try to get parts for an older Nikon yet I can still get parts for my 38 year old Leica M3 (and which will still work with the worlds finest 35mm lenses).
The Europeans and especially the Germans have been leaders in automotive technology since the inception of the motor car. I think they've gotten ahead of themselves with electronic gadgetry. On the other hand, Toyota sits quietly (and smugly) by letting the Germans do the R&D on new technology while they pick and choose to implement the things that have been sorted out by the Germans and other Europeans.
I've been in blizzards in our old 190D and I've got to say that that three pointed star on the hood provided me with more confidence than I'd get with any other brand. That car never once let us down in the 17 years we owned it. I hope that the E320 will be half as good.
How many companies would manufacture new heads for a Gullwing? How many companies would provide parts for 25 years? This seems to be a European thing. Just try to get parts for an older Nikon yet I can still get parts for my 38 year old Leica M3 (and which will still work with the worlds finest 35mm lenses).
The Europeans and especially the Germans have been leaders in automotive technology since the inception of the motor car. I think they've gotten ahead of themselves with electronic gadgetry. On the other hand, Toyota sits quietly (and smugly) by letting the Germans do the R&D on new technology while they pick and choose to implement the things that have been sorted out by the Germans and other Europeans.
I've been in blizzards in our old 190D and I've got to say that that three pointed star on the hood provided me with more confidence than I'd get with any other brand. That car never once let us down in the 17 years we owned it. I hope that the E320 will be half as good.
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Originally Posted by CE750
rjm.. is the 767 a unreliable piece of crap? How many write ups did you do on it in your years flying it? How many ships did you take with Differed this and Differed that... an MB is no different.
Mercedes-Benz = Airbus
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Originally Posted by CE750
It's real simple rjm... I bought this car 3 months ago, all told I've spend about $67,000 on it...I have no regrets. If I had bought anything else, I wouldn't be as happy, I'm sure.
Let me get this straight...you are basing your opinions, evaluation, expertise and experience of Mercedes-Benz ownership on owning one for 3 months? Man, are you in for some surprises as the months tick on!
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
Let me get this straight...you are basing your opinions, evaluation, expertise and experience of Mercedes-Benz ownership on owning one for 3 months? Man, are you in for some surprises as the months tick on!
also rjm.. It's been my experience that the first few months of a car's life tell volumes of what the rest of it's life will be like. I also take extra care and over maintain my cars, which helps.
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Originally Posted by CE750
BTW.. do me a favor and take a magnet to your body panels.. I'm curious if they're steel or aluminum. Not making any judgement, just curious.