E-class updates
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by DalBenz
So, if I were to leave my wipers on intermittent (wipe when windshield is wet), the brakes are being wiped even if the road is dry or would the brakes be wiped only if the blades actually wipe the windshield?
The wipers could be on "standby" for weeks between actual rain showers thereby also wiping the brakes when it is unnecessary.
May be another reason some need to replace their brake pads sooner than others???
The wipers could be on "standby" for weeks between actual rain showers thereby also wiping the brakes when it is unnecessary.
May be another reason some need to replace their brake pads sooner than others???
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BudC
It hasn't anything to do with your windshield wipers, it's controlled by the rain sensor. Why would you think the wipers had anything to do with it? In fact, I suspect that you can leave your wipers off in a rain storm (if you dared) and the brake dry system would work as expected.
this is true.. as a matter of fact, even though some prefer it, I hardly ever use my wipers unless the rain gets extreme, like the extremely heavy rains we've been having here in the Valley over the past two days.. I was on the 101 yesterday when day turned into night and the car was for all intents and purposes submerged in water... this is when I first used the wiper on my now 4 month old car... but I'm sure the rain sensor sent the dry signal to the brakes well before this day.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Originally Posted by BudC
It hasn't anything to do with your windshield wipers, it's controlled by the rain sensor. In fact, I suspect that you can leave your wipers off in a rain storm (if you dared) and the brake dry system would work as expected.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by konigstiger
Actually it does only work while the wipers are on and I quote “And if the windshield wipers are on, Sensotronic takes note and imperceptibly applies the brakes periodically to help keep them dry” - 2003 E-Class brochure.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by konigstiger
Actually it does only work while the wipers are on and I quote “And if the windshield wipers are on, Sensotronic takes note and imperceptibly applies the brakes periodically to help keep them dry” - 2003 E-Class brochure.
I can tell you one this for sure... we'll probably never know, as I'm sure it's only a handful of engineers in Germany that actually know this.. Call your dealer or MBUSA and you'll probably get a different answer every time, or the brochure answer.. Same thing happened when I asked about the brake calipers on the CDI vs the E350... I think I quit at 4 different answers.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Tesla
I am not saying SBC is a marketting gimmick. In fact I think it's the best thing since ABS. I just don't see it being a determining factor for people shopping for 4 door sedan like the E-class. Most people would expect safety feature like this to be standard in car costing this much. Try explaining the details of SBC to potential E-class buyers. I'd bet 80% of them wouldn't understand or don't care.
It's sad to see MB giving up features in order to compete with lesser cars.
It's sad to see MB giving up features in order to compete with lesser cars.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Originally Posted by BudC
OK, I'm wrong then. I would never have expected that. The question is are they applied when the wipers MOVE or anytime they are turned on? It doesn't make any sense for them to be tied to the wipers. The rain sensor should drive both systems.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Longmont, CO
04 E320 4 Matic, 95 Audi S6, 99 Carrera 4 Cabrio, 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 00 BMW R1200C 10, BMW R1200R
I spoke with a MB engineer in Germany and I asked him the same question about the wipers, he said that they stated that if the wipers are moving the brakes are dried, but he said that it is totally linked to the infrared sensor, the wiper motor has nothing to do with it. I think that the brochure was just being simplistic.
As per the SBC, I would like to see them keep it and simply refine it. In Germany, where Es are routinely driving at speeds over 120MPH, the SBC can and has saved lives. The added reaction time that it gives you by pre-tensioning brakes when releasing the accelerator at fast speeds (panic stops) will save you car lengths in stopping distances.
As per the comparison to the Infinity, I don't think that you can even start to compare the brakes! Bud, you bring up braking on corners, how about braking on corners and snow. I HAVE NEVER HAD A CAR STOP SO WELL IN SNOW! My Audi Quattro stays in the garage now when it snows, and it has Porsche 993 front brakes and cross-drilled 12 inch rear rotors!
The SBC system is similar, but not as bad as the infamous V4/6/8 that Cadillac introduced in the early 80s. Great idea, but the technology was not far enough yet. SBC is nowhere near the failure of the V4/6/8, but in some ways it is the same since it is ahead of its time.
I knew my E had SBC brakes when I bought the car, but it was not the main selling point. Now, where exactly have you all gotten the announcement that SBC will be gone? I have not seen it anywhere yet.
What a shame,
Steve
As per the SBC, I would like to see them keep it and simply refine it. In Germany, where Es are routinely driving at speeds over 120MPH, the SBC can and has saved lives. The added reaction time that it gives you by pre-tensioning brakes when releasing the accelerator at fast speeds (panic stops) will save you car lengths in stopping distances.
As per the comparison to the Infinity, I don't think that you can even start to compare the brakes! Bud, you bring up braking on corners, how about braking on corners and snow. I HAVE NEVER HAD A CAR STOP SO WELL IN SNOW! My Audi Quattro stays in the garage now when it snows, and it has Porsche 993 front brakes and cross-drilled 12 inch rear rotors!
The SBC system is similar, but not as bad as the infamous V4/6/8 that Cadillac introduced in the early 80s. Great idea, but the technology was not far enough yet. SBC is nowhere near the failure of the V4/6/8, but in some ways it is the same since it is ahead of its time.
I knew my E had SBC brakes when I bought the car, but it was not the main selling point. Now, where exactly have you all gotten the announcement that SBC will be gone? I have not seen it anywhere yet.
What a shame,
Steve
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Super Member
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: North Scottsdale
06 C 350 2014 GLK350
I was told three weeks ago by the technician at the factory in Sindelfingen who delivered my car that the SBC brakes would be replaced at the time of the face lift around June next year.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by MB-JIM
I was told three weeks ago by the technician at the factory in Sindelfingen who delivered my car that the SBC brakes would be replaced at the time of the face lift around June next year.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet they'll be back under a different name, and with a different fail safe system that gives you power brakes, but de-links the SBC with out the drives knowledge and reverts to vacuum assist front brakes or something.. but having completely variable braking on all 4 wheels isn't dead yet.
Last edited by CE750; Oct 18, 2005 at 05:47 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
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From: Bay Area California
W203 C240
Originally Posted by BudC
The changes that have occurred to the W211 have been cost cutting measures except that the change in the console appears to have been done to satisfy the complaints from Americans about cup holders.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
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Originally Posted by MB-JIM
You can usually pick up your European Delivery car at Sindelfingen the same day that the model is officially released at the US dealers.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: North Scottsdale
06 C 350 2014 GLK350
My best guess is availability will be sometime between next June and September. The factory man told me June but that was probably for Germany. Historically, we would usually cars here two or three months later. Just be sure to keep in contact with your sales person so you can be sure to get the first day pickup. I have succeeded in doing this several times.
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From: The Earth
Mercedes all the way!
yeah, i agree that SBC will probably still be there, with a different name and different backup. as i understand it the hydraulic brakes now have the same features as SBC? so what probably happens is they have some electronics doing the SBC stuff, but perhaps the pedal itself is connected all the way to the pads physically. that's my guess anyway.
btw i don't actually think the changes introduced so far (besides cupholders) were cost-cutting - the new grille above the aircon vents looks much classier than the original plastic ones like on mine. but i wish they'd make the rear-view mirror more solid - to me it's the flimsiest thing in the interior.
btw i don't actually think the changes introduced so far (besides cupholders) were cost-cutting - the new grille above the aircon vents looks much classier than the original plastic ones like on mine. but i wish they'd make the rear-view mirror more solid - to me it's the flimsiest thing in the interior.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by ruykava
yeah, i agree that SBC will probably still be there, with a different name and different backup. as i understand it the hydraulic brakes now have the same features as SBC? so what probably happens is they have some electronics doing the SBC stuff, but perhaps the pedal itself is connected all the way to the pads physically. that's my guess anyway.
btw i don't actually think the changes introduced so far (besides cupholders) were cost-cutting - the new grille above the aircon vents looks much classier than the original plastic ones like on mine. but i wish they'd make the rear-view mirror more solid - to me it's the flimsiest thing in the interior.
btw i don't actually think the changes introduced so far (besides cupholders) were cost-cutting - the new grille above the aircon vents looks much classier than the original plastic ones like on mine. but i wish they'd make the rear-view mirror more solid - to me it's the flimsiest thing in the interior.
The new braking system will not have the safety features of SBC unless you want to call the dry brake feature a safety feature. I still think SBC is being replaced to reduce cost and because of concerns about liablity issues.
