E-class updates
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,465
Likes: 0
From: Palm Beach, FL
'03 Yukon XL Denali, '06 Eclipse GS
Gah, the dreaded question revisited. Some posts say '07, '08, or even '09. Who knows? 
Many posts are questionable pertaining to this particular topic.
Many posts are questionable pertaining to this particular topic.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 2
From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BudC
The facelift is supposed to be out next year. The next model of the E-Class (W212) should be out in 2008 as a 2009.
I had read elsewhere on this forum that it would be out in '09 as a '10... you're sure of those dates? Can't find it in my search, but it came from a news link of some kind.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 3
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by CE750
I had read elsewhere on this forum that it would be out in '09 as a '10... you're sure of those dates? Can't find it in my search, but it came from a news link of some kind.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
From: Land down under
BMW E60 M5 - '08
Historically, how many years go by before a model gets a face lift? I always thought it'll be 4-5 years for some reason, without any evidence. Any one who is better informed on such matters care to comment?
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 627
Likes: 1
From: The Earth
Mercedes all the way!
i think you're quite right about the timeline - around 4 years or so for a facelift. in fact, the W211 has already been through a "facelift" of sorts - the centre console has been changed in the USA and for other countries, the part above the aircon vent (what is it? :p) now looks much, much more quality.
anyway, as i'm sure you've seen, this thread has photos of the facelift W211 in testing: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/123218-w211-facelift-spy-shots.html.
if it's already driving around, and since it seems quite a minor change (unless they decide to axe SBC right now), i'd guess it'd be out early 2007?
anyway, as i'm sure you've seen, this thread has photos of the facelift W211 in testing: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/123218-w211-facelift-spy-shots.html.
if it's already driving around, and since it seems quite a minor change (unless they decide to axe SBC right now), i'd guess it'd be out early 2007?
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Dubai Tuner Gives the Mercedes G-Class An Entirely New Look
Verdad Gallardo
Six Gift Ideas Your AMG Loving Dad or Grad Will Cherish
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 3
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
The changes that have occurred to the W211 have been cost cutting measures except that the change in the console appears to have been done to satisfy the complaints from Americans about cup holders.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 2
From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BudC
The changes that have occurred to the W211 have been cost cutting measures except that the change in the console appears to have been done to satisfy the complaints from Americans about cup holders.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
The 2007 W211 due out around June of 2006 is supposed to have dropped SBC.
It appears that the brakes will operate much like the 2006 M-Class with higher than normal rear brake bias when the car is moving in a straight line but reverting to reduced rear braking in a turn. SBC has independent wheel braking and can safely brake in a turn.
The power for the new brakes probably comes from the old fashioned method of a master cylinder with vacuum assist.
Lets face it, other than the serious issue of failure of the system which I am hoping is a non-issue on my newer W211.. the SBC is superior in my view... the sad reality, is that they didn't test it well enough and work out it's bugs before they used it and this lead to a soiled reputation to an otherwise very nice safety feature.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 3
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by CE750
Lets face it, other than the serious issue of failure of the system which I am hoping is a non-issue on my newer W211.. the SBC is superior in my view... the sad reality, is that they didn't test it well enough and work out it's bugs before they used it and this lead to a soiled reputation to an otherwise very nice safety feature.
As for testing, I worked for IBM for 35 years (most of it in software) and I can say that it's almost impossible to test long enough or smart enough to get all the bugs out of a product whether it's a car or a computer or a program. At least you can't do it within a reasonable time frame at a reasonable cost.
When you combine software with hardware such as on the W211, you have a much more difficult time of it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,348
Likes: 0
From: Northern NJ
2014 BMW 550i
BudC, you make a good point. Software testing really never ends. Or, if you really want to test the software properly, you are going to have to accept a MUCH longer time to market timeline, which would not be acceptable.
In the case of SBC, it is a little different, since it is such a vital and important part of the car. I'm not going to go crazy running from the building talking about SBC, but I think it is a little case of too much, too soon. There have been an adequate amount of brake failures posted here (and considering that the forum population is only a small subset of total SBC population), and that SBC will not be offered on the new S-Class, and is not on the new ML, that I think that there should be some concern. Although my lease is up next year, I would be concerned about the long term reliability of the system.
And if the failures are due to improper procedures by service departments, that is all the more reason to drop SBC.
In the case of SBC, it is a little different, since it is such a vital and important part of the car. I'm not going to go crazy running from the building talking about SBC, but I think it is a little case of too much, too soon. There have been an adequate amount of brake failures posted here (and considering that the forum population is only a small subset of total SBC population), and that SBC will not be offered on the new S-Class, and is not on the new ML, that I think that there should be some concern. Although my lease is up next year, I would be concerned about the long term reliability of the system.
And if the failures are due to improper procedures by service departments, that is all the more reason to drop SBC.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 2
From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by alewifebp
BudC, you make a good point. Software testing really never ends. Or, if you really want to test the software properly, you are going to have to accept a MUCH longer time to market timeline, which would not be acceptable.
In the case of SBC, it is a little different, since it is such a vital and important part of the car. I'm not going to go crazy running from the building talking about SBC, but I think it is a little case of too much, too soon. There have been an adequate amount of brake failures posted here (and considering that the forum population is only a small subset of total SBC population), and that SBC will not be offered on the new S-Class, and is not on the new ML, that I think that there should be some concern. Although my lease is up next year, I would be concerned about the long term reliability of the system.
And if the failures are due to improper procedures by service departments, that is all the more reason to drop SBC.
In the case of SBC, it is a little different, since it is such a vital and important part of the car. I'm not going to go crazy running from the building talking about SBC, but I think it is a little case of too much, too soon. There have been an adequate amount of brake failures posted here (and considering that the forum population is only a small subset of total SBC population), and that SBC will not be offered on the new S-Class, and is not on the new ML, that I think that there should be some concern. Although my lease is up next year, I would be concerned about the long term reliability of the system.
And if the failures are due to improper procedures by service departments, that is all the more reason to drop SBC.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 723
Likes: 32
From: Central Jersey
2003 E500, 2004 G35X
Dropping SBC
I don't see any advantage of SBC over the regular brake system. I have 04 G35, and it out brakes my 211. The MB initially promoted it as a marketing gimmick. In reality, no car magazine ever stated SBC is superior to regular brake system. I feel it is good for MB to drop the SBC 
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
I was of the impression that that e-class always had the best braking performance for cars of similar weight and size (based on stopping distance from a given speed). The times that I have had to brake in an emergency situation I thought the brakes did a stellar job.
Not sure what your criteria is for saying the G35 has "out brakes" the W211 - I didn't think the G35 was in the same size/weight category.
Not sure what your criteria is for saying the G35 has "out brakes" the W211 - I didn't think the G35 was in the same size/weight category.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 2
From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Flash Gordon
I don't see any advantage of SBC over the regular brake system. I have 04 G35, and it out brakes my 211. The MB initially promoted it as a marketing gimmick. In reality, no car magazine ever stated SBC is superior to regular brake system. I feel it is good for MB to drop the SBC
The Infiniti G35 weighs less than 3500lbs.. while my W211 cracks the scale at 4000lbs.. and some of the lighter E350's are just south of 3800lbs..
so it's apples and oranges as weight is a HUGE factor in brake performance. That said, 126 feet 70-0 is MOST impressive by any measure.
There is only one problem with SBC in my opinion, and it's major I'll admit, it's reliability (for being a critical system) is dismal. That said, I'm sure the issues have been addressed in the newer cars.
next...
Last edited by CE750; Oct 18, 2005 at 02:00 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Tesla
I was talking to a neighbor the other day and I mentioned SBC brakes on their E-class. They had no idea what that is, nor do they notice anything different about the brake. I think the majority of E-class owners are of this type. So from marketting point of view, this feature is probably not a good selling point. So I wouldn't be suprised if they go back to traditional hydrolic system to stay competitive (price wise).
I mean, how many of you actually bought the E-class because of SBC system?
I mean, how many of you actually bought the E-class because of SBC system?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by Flash Gordon
I don't see any advantage of SBC over the regular brake system. I have 04 G35, and it out brakes my 211. The MB initially promoted it as a marketing gimmick. In reality, no car magazine ever stated SBC is superior to regular brake system. I feel it is good for MB to drop the SBC
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 3
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
It wasn't a marketing gimmick. It was safety. For example, the SBC system dries the pads periodically when the wipers are on. It also preloads the pads under certain conditions it believes precede a panic stop. All of these things reduce stopping distances. IMO, you will see this type of braking system again someday after someone figures out how to make it 100% reliable and provide some (any) driver feedback.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 2
From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BudC
SBC can also brake in curve because it has individual brake control. http://www.whnet.com/4x4/sbc.html http://www.whnet.com/4x4/pix/sbc2.jpg
I will admit (though I didn't do much research on the car) that I didn't know what SBC was when I got this car.. I was focused on the MB reputation and the diesel engine.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
More MB safety technology at work behind the scenes. The sad thing about it is that the accidents it prevented can and will never be counted just like ABS.
The sad thing about it is that the accidents it prevented can and will never be counted just like ABS.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 3
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
More MB safety technology at work behind the scenes. The sad thing about it is that the accidents it prevented can and will never be counted just like ABS.
The sad thing about it is that the accidents it prevented can and will never be counted just like ABS.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, TX
2004 E320; 2001 Jaguar VDP
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
It wasn't a marketing gimmick. It was safety. For example, the SBC system dries the pads periodically when the wipers are on. It also preloads the pads under certain conditions it believes precede a panic stop. All of these things reduce stopping distances. IMO, you will see this type of braking system again someday after someone figures out how to make it 100% reliable and provide some (any) driver feedback.
The wipers could be on "standby" for weeks between actual rain showers thereby also wiping the brakes when it is unnecessary.
May be another reason some need to replace their brake pads sooner than others???
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by DalBenz
So, if I were to leave my wipers on intermittent (wipe when windshield is wet), the brakes are being wiped even if the road is dry or would the brakes be wiped only if the blades actually wipe the windshield?
The wipers could be on "standby" for weeks between actual rain showers thereby also wiping the brakes when it is unnecessary.
May be another reason some need to replace their brake pads sooner than others???
The wipers could be on "standby" for weeks between actual rain showers thereby also wiping the brakes when it is unnecessary.
May be another reason some need to replace their brake pads sooner than others???
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by BudC
I think there are some statistics on ESP where it has reduced accidents by 35%. How many people even know they have it? Price and styling sells cars.
You are spot on about what sells cars. I felt the same way until I had kids.
