Ok, Lets keep it simple... V6/I6 ??
11-02-2005, 08:42 AM
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You talking diesels?
As a general rule (in either diesel or gas) I6 will get poorer gas mileage, yet have better torque while V6 would get better gas mileage and have better horsepower as it can rev higher.
I'm sure you already know that, but as far as the switch in the diesels, I haven't a clue. Then again, I'm an inline 6 kind of guy with my diesels!
As a general rule (in either diesel or gas) I6 will get poorer gas mileage, yet have better torque while V6 would get better gas mileage and have better horsepower as it can rev higher.
I'm sure you already know that, but as far as the switch in the diesels, I haven't a clue. Then again, I'm an inline 6 kind of guy with my diesels!
11-02-2005, 09:22 AM
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All You Could Want to Know About the V6
You can read a detailed report about the diesel V6 here:
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...ercedes/1.html
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...ercedes/1.html
11-02-2005, 09:46 AM
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The V6 requires low sulfur diesel fuel because they have particulate filters. Low sulfur diesel fuel will not be widely available in the US until sometime in the second half of 2006. That means that the V6 will probably be imported as a 2007 model year available no earlier than late 2006.
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11-02-2005, 10:01 AM
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I thought the V6 would have staged turbos (like the V8 diesel?) but I guess not. I wonder if the new V6 will actually eliminate the tubro lag of the current CDI.
BMW's inline diesel engine has staged turbos.
BMW's inline diesel engine has staged turbos.
11-02-2005, 10:04 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
I6 > V6 for the following reasons:
-Iron block
-more torque all else being equal
-simple
-heritage
The reason the new diesel matches close the I6's numbers and has more hp, as well as better economy is 100% due to the newer CDI injection (3rd generation) and nothing to do with it being a V6.. The MB switch to V6 was entirely cost driven, and this is why BMW snubs their nose at MB now, saying that a BMW will ALWAYS BE RWD(or AWD), and their 6's, will always be an I-6, not a V6 like MB.
btw.. go hangout at the MB Diesel shop forums and ask those guys the same question, and you'll get much the same answers.
-Iron block
-more torque all else being equal
-simple
-heritage
The reason the new diesel matches close the I6's numbers and has more hp, as well as better economy is 100% due to the newer CDI injection (3rd generation) and nothing to do with it being a V6.. The MB switch to V6 was entirely cost driven, and this is why BMW snubs their nose at MB now, saying that a BMW will ALWAYS BE RWD(or AWD), and their 6's, will always be an I-6, not a V6 like MB.
btw.. go hangout at the MB Diesel shop forums and ask those guys the same question, and you'll get much the same answers.
11-02-2005, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BudC
The V6 requires low sulfur diesel fuel because they have particulate filters. Low sulfur diesel fuel will not be widely available in the US until sometime in the second half of 2006. That means that the V6 will probably be imported as a 2007 model year available no earlier than late 2006.
11-02-2005, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by E55AMG99
Low or ULTRA Low sulfur? US diesel is already low in sulfur.
There is some fuel available now that's lower than 500 ppm but it's not widely available.
11-02-2005, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 2manytoys
What will happen to diesel prices when the new fuel comes out?
11-02-2005, 11:46 AM
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I'm not an expert of car diesel engine by any means, but I've had diesel engines in trucks for 8 years in a row and have researched them to death.
An inline 6 cylinder will overall, be better than a V engine. Granted, these are as it pertains to trucks, so the demands of a truck are a little bit different than a car. These are my opinions, so flame on!
Simplicity is king in the inline. Nothing to crossover, one of everything, no mating, no matching, very simple design with less plumbing. More torque at a lower rpm with less taxation on the engine. Simple engine dynamics here. Iron block as CE750 pointed out, that is a longetivity that is unsurpassed in the comparison of a V vs an I. Tough as nails really. The V's might be a bit quicker off the line, but hook a load to them (or climb a hill --- heaven forbid don't put a tow hitch on your MB
) and the I will outperform the V any day of the week.
The value of your I6 will not budge a bit in the true diesel believers eyes when the V6 comes out. It might be trickier, fancier, and have more moving parts, but old school will prevail in my opinion.
Bang for the buck, inline is da' wa' to go.
An inline 6 cylinder will overall, be better than a V engine. Granted, these are as it pertains to trucks, so the demands of a truck are a little bit different than a car. These are my opinions, so flame on!
Simplicity is king in the inline. Nothing to crossover, one of everything, no mating, no matching, very simple design with less plumbing. More torque at a lower rpm with less taxation on the engine. Simple engine dynamics here. Iron block as CE750 pointed out, that is a longetivity that is unsurpassed in the comparison of a V vs an I. Tough as nails really. The V's might be a bit quicker off the line, but hook a load to them (or climb a hill --- heaven forbid don't put a tow hitch on your MB
) and the I will outperform the V any day of the week.The value of your I6 will not budge a bit in the true diesel believers eyes when the V6 comes out. It might be trickier, fancier, and have more moving parts, but old school will prevail in my opinion.
Bang for the buck, inline is da' wa' to go.
11-02-2005, 12:30 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
heh, i have no idea at all about diesels. the sulphur content of diesel in malaysia is so high (mostly for ooooollld trucks) Merc doesn't even bother to try for fear of reliability issues. although some people do bring in their own CDIs via imports. and BMW is sufficiently confident to bring in their 520d.
well, BMW did say something about "we will never have superchargers in our cars" but looks like they are going the kompressor route for their new engines - lol, times change.
anyway was wondering - if the I6 is so much simpler, why does it cost more to make?
well, BMW did say something about "we will never have superchargers in our cars" but looks like they are going the kompressor route for their new engines - lol, times change.
anyway was wondering - if the I6 is so much simpler, why does it cost more to make?
11-02-2005, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ruykava
well, BMW did say something about "we will never have superchargers in our cars" but looks like they are going the kompressor route for their new engines - lol, times change.
BTW, one of the reasons AMG uses superchargers is that the Mercedes automatic transmission has a torque converter that is supposedly limited to about 6,800 RPM before it stops working. Consequently, AMG and Mercedes can't use high RPM to gain horsepower the way BMW has done.
They have to either go bigger or use supercharging or turbocharging.
11-02-2005, 12:46 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by saffrontiger
nope, currenty Sulfur content is 300PPM versus ULSD spec require 15-20
PPM.
PPM.
The limits and terminology vary from country to country. Some use the term "low" to label 50ppm sulfur. Others have "near zero" sulfur which is anything from 15 down to 5ppm. Sweden and a few other countries use the term "zero" sulfur fuel which has a limit of 5ppm.
Maybe I should have made all of this more clear to you in my original post.
11-02-2005, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PHXATC
I'm not an expert of car diesel engine by any means, but I've had diesel engines in trucks for 8 years in a row and have researched them to death.
An inline 6 cylinder will overall, be better than a V engine. Granted, these are as it pertains to trucks, so the demands of a truck are a little bit different than a car. These are my opinions, so flame on!
Simplicity is king in the inline. Nothing to crossover, one of everything, no mating, no matching, very simple design with less plumbing. More torque at a lower rpm with less taxation on the engine. Simple engine dynamics here. Iron block as CE750 pointed out, that is a longetivity that is unsurpassed in the comparison of a V vs an I. Tough as nails really. The V's might be a bit quicker off the line, but hook a load to them (or climb a hill --- heaven forbid don't put a tow hitch on your MB ) and the I will outperform the V any day of the week.
The value of your I6 will not budge a bit in the true diesel believers eyes when the V6 comes out. It might be trickier, fancier, and have more moving parts, but old school will prevail in my opinion.
Bang for the buck, inline is da' wa' to go.
An inline 6 cylinder will overall, be better than a V engine. Granted, these are as it pertains to trucks, so the demands of a truck are a little bit different than a car. These are my opinions, so flame on!
Simplicity is king in the inline. Nothing to crossover, one of everything, no mating, no matching, very simple design with less plumbing. More torque at a lower rpm with less taxation on the engine. Simple engine dynamics here. Iron block as CE750 pointed out, that is a longetivity that is unsurpassed in the comparison of a V vs an I. Tough as nails really. The V's might be a bit quicker off the line, but hook a load to them (or climb a hill --- heaven forbid don't put a tow hitch on your MB
) and the I will outperform the V any day of the week.The value of your I6 will not budge a bit in the true diesel believers eyes when the V6 comes out. It might be trickier, fancier, and have more moving parts, but old school will prevail in my opinion.
Bang for the buck, inline is da' wa' to go.
Take a look at the current crop of US HD pickups. Excluding Dodge, which uses an 20+ year old Cummins inline, Ford and GM have invested heavily in V style blocks for their diesels. Actually, they invested heavily in Volvo and Izuzu repsectively to get access to their heavy diesel technology.
My GMC 2500HD crew cab has a 360HP 650lb-ft V-8 engine that absolutely kicks a$$! This is almost as much power as a Class 7/8 big rig and much more than my Cat D6 dozer!
11-02-2005, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BudC
How can it get any worse? The average price is well over $3.00 in the US when it should be selling for about what regular sells for or even less.
In NJ $253.9 and it right now it should sell for somewhere in between reg and premium
11-02-2005, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kort677
In NJ $253.9 and it right now it should sell for somewhere in between reg and premium
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp
11-02-2005, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by E55AMG99
I think MB and other car/pickup/SUV manufacturers are most concerned with packaging issues.
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
Take a look at the current crop of US HD pickups. Excluding Dodge, which uses an 20+ year old Cummins inline, Ford and GM have invested heavily in V style blocks for their diesels. Actually, they invested heavily in Volvo and Izuzu repsectively to get access to their heavy diesel technology. My GMC 2500HD crew cab has a 360HP 650lb-ft V-8 engine that absolutely kicks a$$! This is almost as much power as a Class 7/8 big rig and much more than my Cat D6 dozer!
My GMC 2500HD crew cab has a 360HP 650lb-ft V-8 engine that absolutely kicks a$$! This is almost as much power as a Class 7/8 big rig and much more than my Cat D6 dozer!
