kbond555

Good Afternoon all SBC users


In January my boss had an accident In his E 55 AMG. He drove approx 60 km/h and on the control panel He saw information that there is a brake problem and He Has to stop the car. Unforttunatly it was not possibile. The pedal went to the floor. He Stopped the car on the pavement. He was lucky that nobody was on it. HE broke two alloy Wheel.
He was not able to stop the vehicule…
THis is not the end of the story
Our company Has also E320 CDI eqipped with the same system

Some inetressant issues:

In June 2004 both cars had official SBC update.
In Decmeber 2004 only E320 had SBC update but It was unofficial during visit In sernice In another purpose.
Directly after accident of E55 the service made unofficial SBC update
In August ( E320 ) had 3 SBC sernice action. (2 official and one unofficial)
2 weeks later In the garaże the same information as In E55 AMG appear

Now another point of view.


For 2 years I worked as supplier quality auditor ISO TS 16949/2002 for one of the biggest Automotive company. I made quality analysis of this case.


"Unofficial recall campaign"

Such an attitude is totally not Ok with all automotive standards. I know that It is because of press coments e.t.c. but here the price is health and lives of DC users.

Regarding point 8.3.3 ISO TS

The customer should be ( take as must) immediately informed about wrong part or product. We can treat SBC as safety critical component so a failure may influence your life or health. SO DC can not wait till user will come to dealership for example to change tires and in meantime they will make SBC upgrade....And if the user will not change the tires or something alike...what will happen? He will have accident beacuse DC will not have the "black Public relations"

Point 8.5.2.4

The time for trials/analysis of "defected" part should be as short as possible, and the record if necessary should be presented to the customer.

I asked many times for analysys what was the root cause of my boss accident. They never replied. They said that everything is under control....So how can they release the car to the customer when they are not aware what is the root cause of the problem.

AS DC makes recalls they must be sure that the countermeasures are effective....We can observe the effectiveness- 3 times "SBC upgrade"
And also some accident happen after SBC upgrade






My opinion is that DC is not aware what the real root cause is. That is why you have to visit frequently your service to make anothe upgrade...
In my opinion the SBC was not tested enough. Some errors were made during launch of the product.

According to me the SBC is dangerous and the problem is not managed correctly by DC. It may happen in all E class. I wonder how many SBC upgrade will they prepare for users....


I Would like to ask everybody who had problems (emergency situation/ accident) to post an answer ot to email me. Maybe we can Exchange our idea and point sof view to have some New idea show to save us from this device (SBC)

I struggle with DC Since 9 months. And they send us very unpolite replies. They never want to tell what the Real root causa of the problem is.
We manager to collect lot of information but the more the Belter, so I Am searching more SBC „victims” to workout a common approach vs DC

Best regards

CE750

Can you please post some of the email replies from DC for us?

Also, what year was the E55? and what country?

ATS

My SBC has actually saved me a few times.. I am glad that I have not had a problem. I am also dissapointed that pressure has made them discontinue it..

CE750

What they should have done is design a better failsafe system... A hydraulic assist for the manual back up would have been my solution, rather than give up on leading edge safety technology, just because when it fails, it fails completely!

BudC

In my not so humble opinion, MBUSA is really slow about recalls. In fact, they will try to stonewall customers for as long as they can. The M112 V6 and M113 V8's were produced with poorly designed harmonic balancers that would come apart and do quite a bit of damage. MBUSA refused to admit they had a problem despite clear evidence otherwise. After threats of lawsuits and after complaints to the Feds, they began to pay for repairs but never did admit to having a problem.

There were many iterations of the harmonic balancer until they finally seemed to have got it right.

The problem with the SBC cable connector should have been a recall from the very beginning but they made it a campaign that was only installed when someone took their car to a dealer for something else. Thanks to Konigstiger, I took my car in as soon as I heard about it. I believe that the SBC cable connector coming loose is the root cause of many unexplained SBC problems along with dealer screwups doing incorrect brake fluid changes.

In my experience, BMW have more design problems but they are also better about fixing them. BMW treats you less like a naive rich owner and more like an enthusiest. At least they used to. Maybe now it's no different then Mercedes.

CE750

Bud, is there a visual difference in the SBC pump after the fix? If so, can you take a digital photo and post it?

BudC

OK, I have a JPeg of it, how do I post it?

CE750

When you go to post... do the "Go Advanced" option.. then towards the bottom of the page where you do your post there will be a "manage my attachments" button.. use that to attach, THEN upload the pics... then you can submit the post..

BUT FIRST.. make sure you resize the .jpg to no larger than 600x400, using your photoprocessing software..

if you need more help call me.. I'll PM you my phone number incase you need it.

kbond555

Year 2003
Country Poland

best regards

CE750

There is your answer... the 2003 has the older SBC..



What is with the "unofficial" SBC updates? What was that all about? Who did the work, and what was it?

BudC

Here it is, I hope. This may not be it, the change might be below the plug.

CE750

Good work Bud! I'm gonna go look at mine now and see if it looks the same.. as I "didn't need the recall" as per Schumacher's computer.

BudC

I'm having doubts that this is what got changed. It could be something below the plug out of sight. Anyway, it was good practice

CE750

Here are a series of photo's of my SBC which apparently need 0-recalls from the factory.

Anyone see anything different in mine from yours?

The harness that Bud replaced seems to look just like mine to me.

BudC

For those who haven't seen it, here are two SBC changes.

The flexible line update P-B-42.46/32 Retrofit Flex Lines and Return.

The other one is P-B-42.46/32B Dampner Valve Update for SBC System.

This was nice work by Phoenix Motor Company

CE750

now that is odd? How is it that I don't have that modification, and yet my car needs no recalls? Could they have reengineered the mount for my car so it didnt' need the flexline?

Now I'm confused..

mleskovar

That would make it a complete 'old technology' system to back up the SBC I'm still waiting to be convinced as to what are the "added features" of SBC that make it worthwhile.

BudC

This is the fix for people who complained about SBC noise. I didn't have that problem but I wanted to get a free brake fluid change so I asked PMC to do this change. I suspect there aren't many people who have had this done. This is the so-called Dampner change.

Thanks to Konigtiger I've tried to stay ahead of the curve. That brake fluid change actually improved the ergonomics of the SBC brake system.

After looking at what they did, you would want to make sure that whoever does the flex change knows what he's doing.

BudC

It's not worthwhile although I'm sure there are situations where we will be thankful that we have it.

We've all gotten along for quite a while without individual wheel braking. We've even got along for quite a while w/o ABS.

I even got along with a 1963 Buick with dynaflow transmission and drum brakes and came off Pikes Peak with that sucker. Would I do it again, no way!

marcos

I think the guy who started this post talks out of his ***!

How many people know anyone who has actually has SBC failiure? Theres not many.

I still say that SBC is great, I find it works superbly and sooner or later every car will have a similar system. How unreliable is it compared to a conventional system? I've had total brake failiure before on another car but I have nothing but praise for this system.

Just my humble opinoin.

SAguirre

I complained about the noise of the SBC pump noise and they installed the pulsation damper. CE750's picture shows a factory installed pulsation damper and Bud's picture shows the retrofitted damper (the thicker part of the black hose, Bud's has tape over it). They only changed the damper and did not install the extra flex lines on my car. The noise was immediately mitigated and now I have to listen out for it to hear it.

I am still wondering if I want the flex lines changed. They found that this was really not necessary to get rid of the noise and they did not update that fix on the new cars. That is why you don’t have them CE750.

As per the original picture from Bud; I don't really see what the fix is. Is it that zip tie on the cable harness?

I have to bundle up a list of things to have done for the next time I go in to the dealer:

New SBC recall
Pull about .25 of a quart of oil to send in for testing (after I drive 4k miles more).
Make my car beep when I lock it.
Have them stamp and fill out my service booklet, just because.

And this is a new one! My passenger side wood panel got a hairline crack on the wood varnish right underneath the seat adjuster switch. This happened when it was -17 F outside. This is why I don't have a wooden steering wheel. I have found that most of the wood panels will crack out here. It is hard to notice, but if it is covered, then I want it fixed!

As you can see these are really important things! I really think that I got a good W211 (so far).

Steve

kbond555

That you go to your dealership for example for changing tyres or changing oil and in the meantime they make SBC upgrade.

kbond555

For the m,oment I know 4 cases...but If they are not aware what is going on...more will appear...

BudC

I only got the flex line change so that they'd have to change the brake fluid. The brakes were very touchy and I'd been told that a brake fluid change would help and it did.

I really don't know what they did on the cable change. It might be out of sight. Maybe someone with an older car could compare the picture with their car to see if they notice any difference.

konigstiger

The fix is actually made inside the SBC connector and the new wiring is covered with the fabric tape – not readily noticeable. I’m off to physical therapy now and will try to post a better understanding when I get back.