CE750

The problem is that you're the only one questioning that.. Every other article I've read on it says it safer and better that normal brakes.

JimPurdy

Steve,

Your experience with the SBC braking system is more extensive than most other drivers. Your driving in the mountains and snow is something that I don't envy. I used to live in Upstate NY and had similar experiences with snow, curves, hills, and critters. The SBC braking system would have been very welcome.

Jim

MB-JIM

I'm convinced that the SBC braking system is supereior to standard brakes. My wife and I each had to make an emergency stop with one of our W211's and both times we couldn't believe how smoothly and quickly the brakes stopped the car. In both cases with ordinary brakes the ABS would most likely have come on but with SBC it was able to stop smoothly without needing ABS.

mleskovar

I also hope noone is hurt if they do. Denial is OK but a healthy dose of reality takes care of it real quick. 2 million cars were recalled for SBC safety related issues. After costing $173M to develop it is being dropped for build cost and "public acceptance" reasons. I guess MB and the public are just too stupid to know a good thing when they see it

mleskovar

Yes, I agree that everything I've read says the theory behind SBC is superior in all aspects of stopping a car. I've read nothing that gives me quantitative data. SBC is more complex and subject to more failure points, lacks proper back up, and what I've been trying to say is it's not worth the trade-off when the same functionality can (and will be now) be offered by improving the 'standard system'. That's all. SBC functionality is not in question. How it is delivered is my gripe. The solution is a step backward.

Scambo

I believe that many people experiencing "SBC brake failure" are really experiencing the failure of the Battery Control Module, which when failed shuts down the brakes and transmission. This happended to my '04 E500 in traffic. No accident, but disasterously close.

kbond555

[QUOTE=GearHead]You NAILED it.

A braking system should be rated as a complete system (SBC and backup). MB should not have introduced a STATE of the ART primary braking system and provide some 3rd rate back up braking system.


This is the point: You buy MB for amny reasons. On of them is safety.
WHen SBC goes into failure mode by higher speed you are not able to stop it" especially whet the driver is for example woman.

IT is disaster when only on axe is breaking with no assistance. The break accuracy is in the power of your feet...like 30 years before. What is important that when such a situation occurs you are so scared that brake is not working that you panic and distance is longer and longer...

BudC

OK, I don't disagree that the back-up system is inadequate but that's water over the dam. What do we expect Mercedes to do about the millions of cars with SBC? Do we expect them to retrofit an entirely new system? That's not going to happen even if it were possible.

So then what should those of us who have cars with SBC do? Is it so dangerous that we must immediately get rid of our W211's and buy something else?

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to make sure that I have ever TSB related to my car installed as soon as I know about it. I'm going to use common sense in judging the reliability of the SBC and drive-by-wire systems in my car and if I get to the point where I think a shutdown could be possible, I'll switch cars with my wife and drive it myself. I know what I need to do in that event.

If I did get an SBC system shutdown I would feel better about it if I had a hand brake and a transmission that was easier to downshift. Even so, I'll treat the event like any other problem I might have such as a tire blowout or a skid on bad road surfaces.

I won't be keeping this car for more than a decade the way I have other Mercedes but I'm not going to be panicked into a rash decision.

CE750

This is all really a bunch of over reacting.. I am as into my safety as anyone else, and my 76 year old mother drives an SBC car now.. surely I care about her safety. The newer SBC's that have had bugs worked out are safe, period.

Bode

Have a read of this. Agree, have not seen the detailed report on this but it includes the 2003 E-class (i.e. the W211 first model year with the early SBC). MB must be doing something right, as data like this from the US market tends to be representative due to the high number of vehicles sold over here.


http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...ercedes/1.html

mleskovar

Dr. Dieter Zetsche
DaimlerChrysler AG
70546 Stuttgart
Germany

Dr. Zetsche - I have a safety concern with Mercedes Benz vehicles equipped with the Sensotronic Braking System (SBC) that I hope you can help me alleviate. I do not own one of these vehicles but share the road with them on a daily basis . I have read numerous horrific accounts from drivers that experienced SBC system failure and gone into backup mode that is inadequate to stop the car in a timely manner. I realize Daimler Chrysler (DC)
has produced engineering changes to help eliminate the sources of the initial failures but surely no one plans for 100% reliability of a primary brake system. Parts wear or are defective, assemblers and mechanics make mistakes, system errors occur, or the unknown happens to force the vehicle into backup brake mode. As SBC cars age this problem will be more pronounced. What is DC doing to increase the backup brake system capability for SBC equipped vehicles?

BudC

And what did you say to the Ford Motor Company who have been responsible for 45 deaths and terrible injuries just this year alone for their failure to fix the fuel tank and door jamming on Crown Victorias? What did you say to them about the incidents of vehicle fires in Fords dating all the way back to the Pinto. What did you say to them about the Explorers which had crappy tires that had to be under inflated by 9 pounds to keep the thing from rolling over?

BTW, your exageration of SBC problems simply gets worse every time you post. You don't know didly squat about it. Since people took you to task about not even owning a W211, you have now taken the approach SBC is dangerous to you. That's pure, unadulterated B.S.

HELL ONA HARLEY

L.O.L....Nice letter and well written.
I'd give them a week to responed and if you don't hear from them, I'd be selling all my cars never to drive again. Imagine sharing the road with all them "dangerous" E's... I quiver just thinking about it.....

mleskovar

What exaggerations? Name them. Can't you read or are you ignoring the press and posts by people that have actually been through a failure? So what if I don't own one (thankfully, but came close), I can still have opinions about them. Last time I looked this is a public forum. You think that because you haven't had a problem everything is OK. Your total denial that a problem exists amazes me. People over and over talk about going through hell with a failure and you ignore that because "it will never happen to me". That's what people say before heart attacks. I didn't say anything to Ford or any other company because the first I heard about it was after they were being taken to task in court, and after many people died. Maybe if more people had done something earlier and reacted responsibly some lives could have been saved. Even one life would have been worth it. Over reacting? OK, I can live with it. And no, I don't expect you or anyone to stop driving their SBC equipped cars....I wouldn't. But I'd be a darn sight more upset and keep pushing until something was done about it. And stop taking internet forum talk so personal and serious...you can't do anything about it and it can lead to heart attacks.

mleskovar

Thanks, I'm curious about the response. Besides, it's not just E's...don't forget the SL, S, Maybach, SLR and whatever other models. I'm only pontificating on this forum because people here seem to be more aware of the problem and the ongoing improvement efforts. I must admit that if I owned an SBC car today I would not abandon it because of this problem...but I also would recognize the consequences and potential for failure.

HELL ONA HARLEY

It seems even the people who have had "reported" brake failure think as you also.... Everyone who reported a failure on this forum either still drives their car with SBC or opted for a new one with SBC.
Makes you think how serious it really was... Don't it????

mleskovar

No, the reason could be because they are on a lease and have time to go, or purchsed it outright and can't afford to lose it, or whatever fnancial reason. Do you know?

SAguirre

Just FYI, I paid cash for my W211 and for every other car I have ever purchased. I will probably be buying another Mercedes S class when a diesel is available. However, I could dump my E at any time and buy another equivalent car without giving it to much thought or causing me any inconvenience. However, I plan to probably retire my Audi S6 (which is a very rare and special car) and keep my W211 which is not special in any way. I have an extended warranty and I plan to keep my E for at least another 87,000 more miles or 6 more years. If I notice that my car has become a bit troublesome then I might sell it them.

On a side note, when I dropped my Christmas gifts off at my dealer yesterday I spoke with the head "Master Mechanic" of Glauser Mercedes Benz in Westminster Colorado. Glauser is the largest volume dealer in Colorado btw. He is the only one who works on my car and I have complete trust is what he says. I "point blank" asked him how many SBC failures they have had at this dealer. He said ZERO. He also added that the system is a great one but he knew that it was going to be discontinued the day he got training on it. He said that the system tends to be a bit too noisy and expensive.

He also added that he personally drives a W211 and has complete trust in it. He also says that he still thinks that it is a incredibly great performing braking system. This is coming from a master mechanic, not some internet article or the rumor mill.

Just remember, you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Even what I say (which I am now saying is 1st hand information and true) could be a total fake. I think that you are being a bit too paranoid about the system that you are not even using. Also, I would not bee too concerned about the other W211's on the roads. Like Bud and H on a H said, how about all the other real problems on the road? GM's side mounted fuel tanks, Ford cars that have always had a propensity to BURN (even when parked like the F 150 cruise control problem), flip or stall in the middle of intersections (Ford Econoline ignition modules). You are really fighting a very illusive problem that is very rare and after these TSBs will not be happening at all. If you worry this much about the SBC, how can you sleep with all the greater problems happening?

BTW, I had friend who had a 1992 Ford Aerostar that had complete brake failure when the front flex line ruptured and the backup system did not work. I was in the car when this happened and if I had not pulled the emergency brake (which was next to the driver’s seat but on the passenger’s side) and yelled at him to downshift we would have rear ended the car in front of us. I will not own a Ford nor have I ever owned one. However, I find it surprising that I personally experienced a brake failure in a Ford when I was a passenger in one. I should also mention that when my friend bought the replacement flex lines at a local NAPA store, the employee said that they stock tons of them since they fail all the time! Also, what would you say about a car whose braking distance is around 145 feet (60-0 MPH) when a W211's is around 120 feet. There are many cases here in the mountains where Suburbans and Dodge RAMs rear end other cars because they can not stop in time. A SBC system will stop and avoid the accident since 25 feet is a very large number. Yet it will never get credit for its good performance.

Anyway, I don't mean to rant on and on, but I don't think that anyone is "stuck" with their W211s. The people who have had documented failures have either had everything repaired or they got a new car. Either way, they are OK with their cars now. There have been failures, no fatalities and tons of bad press. However, this seems to be resolved. I plan to get the ground wire retrofit done at my convenience. In the mean time I am still driving my E with full confidence. At the same time, there are some people who tend to overextend their financial picture by buying things they can not afford. I imagine that it that case this could happen, but then again this is a W211 not a Hyundai Sonata. The average owner of a W211 tends to be in a bit better financial situation than the average Joe.

Steve

Spartan

It's not an issue of financial "reasons". I paid cash for it. As I stated earlier in the thread, I had EVERY option and I still chose a new E. Mind you, one of the reasons was the diesel engine. If they had a diesel S, then it would be harder for me to make that choice. The other thing I like about the car is it's size and looks. It's a big car but not silly size and it's looks give it a combination of sporty and conservative.

The other thing is that some of you had problems with Mercedes management. I did NOT. They GAVE me a new car even though my old car was a year old. How can I curse and slam them for that? How can I abandon them when they treated me like that? How many car companies do that? Could it possibly be that some of you are taking the wrong course of action? I tell you one thing, my approach was simple and honest, "I love the E but I can not drive THIS ONE anymore because my family and I don't trust it". With that approach, how can they argue? No legal threats, no lawyers, no swearing, no fits of anger. They saw the problem, they accepted my concerns and they did the right thing. It was gentleman's agreements and handshakes. Case closed.

Anyway.........

Isn't this thread going to die? It doesn't appear to be a discussion as much as it appears to be a spaghetti tossing. :p

CE750

I am much happier with the fact that I have SBC, than had I not... just yesterday, no BS, I had a car try to merge into my lane while on the 51 freeway doing 80+ and in a shallow curve... I panic slammed on the brakes, during the banking turn (as I also had to turn aggressively to avoid him as he came into my lane), and the car reacted amazingly stable, and maintained perfect directional control. I've drive cars in the past that would have been swerving all over the place after such a dynamic situation.. that instance there as far as I'm concerned has earned this system it's "keeper status".

Oddly, after exiting the freeway, a older man and woman in an ML pulled up next to me and asked my how I like the CDI.. to which I said.. "Great milage, power, and brakes!"

NO BS...


And Merry Christmas eve!

mleskovar

Merry Christmas!