Ethanol In Gas
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From: Houston. TX
2013 S550
Ethanol In Gas
I stopped tonight after working out, and the Shell station had a note posted on each pump saying "Contains Ethanol". I went to another station and they didn't have the sign so I filled up.
What's this all about? Is the car equipped to handle it? Sorry about my ignorance; I don't watch TV very much.
What's this all about? Is the car equipped to handle it? Sorry about my ignorance; I don't watch TV very much.
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From: Michigan, USA
'05 E320 CDI, '07 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2007 Porsche GT3
Originally Posted by Brunelleschi
isn't that the stuff they use to put you to sleep for surgery? 
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From: Michigan, USA
'05 E320 CDI, '07 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2007 Porsche GT3
Originally Posted by Brunelleschi
Sometimes after a few drinks, I drinkle them too! 
I love martinis! Wish I had one right now!
I love martinis! Wish I had one right now!
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From: Michigan, USA
'05 E320 CDI, '07 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2007 Porsche GT3
Originally Posted by Brunelleschi
In Michigan...yeah...that is kind of short notice for a drink this evening. I might take you up on that one at a later date!
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From: Obama Land
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Originally Posted by ctouhey
I stopped tonight after working out, and the Shell station had a note posted on each pump saying "Contains Ethanol". I went to another station and they didn't have the sign so I filled up.
What's this all about? Is the car equipped to handle it? Sorry about my ignorance; I don't watch TV very much.
What's this all about? Is the car equipped to handle it? Sorry about my ignorance; I don't watch TV very much.
And ethanol is not practical to produce on a large scale. It takes about 75% of the total fuel produced to actually produce it at all. So that means for every 100 gallons produced, it takes 75 gallons to run the farm equipment, transportation, and processing.
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From: www.Traben-Trarbach.de
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Rev,
I've posted on this E85 previously. You are correct about the mpg loss; first hand experience. In my neck of the woods its about 30 - 35 cents cheaper than premium. My understanding is that they get a 50 cent taxbreak or so in my state. Got a refinery only 6 miles away. Therefore at the present gas pricing you'll get a 10% discount for a 25% loss. Main reason is that the BTU content is lower than than gasoline. Some states will give a taxbreak for an E85 capable vehicle that can be a onetime credit, a taxbreak based on comsumption over a certain period, or something else. To run E85 your vehicle should have the specialised fuel system, pump, tahnk, lines, injectors, etc., due to the corrosive nature.
I've posted on this E85 previously. You are correct about the mpg loss; first hand experience. In my neck of the woods its about 30 - 35 cents cheaper than premium. My understanding is that they get a 50 cent taxbreak or so in my state. Got a refinery only 6 miles away. Therefore at the present gas pricing you'll get a 10% discount for a 25% loss. Main reason is that the BTU content is lower than than gasoline. Some states will give a taxbreak for an E85 capable vehicle that can be a onetime credit, a taxbreak based on comsumption over a certain period, or something else. To run E85 your vehicle should have the specialised fuel system, pump, tahnk, lines, injectors, etc., due to the corrosive nature.
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interesting info mods, thanks! i was worried as i switched from chevron/shell to a 76 (saw the "may contain ethonal" sign) station closer to my house to save a few bucks... back to chevron and shell...
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From: Houston. TX
2013 S550
Originally Posted by revstriker
Yes. I too noticed that shell has switched to Ethanol blends. They are using E10 which is 10% Ethanol. It shouldn't have a negative effect on your car (well, actually the alcohol will cause any sediment to loosen up and could cause a fuel filter problem depending on the age of the car), but you will see a decrease in gas mileage by about 5-10% vs. 100% gasoline. [snip]
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
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All Brands of gas here in Metro NY/NJ/CT have ethanol blended into them, and 10% is the maximum the car's parts can handle without corrosion, so it won't be in any higher concentration.
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Originally Posted by ctouhey
Thanks for the info. At least I'm a bit more informed now. I'll stick with Shell, which is all I've ever used in the car. I just hope they stick with the 10%. I didn't see any difference in the price for premium at the station with Ethanol versus the one without.
As for E10 (10% Ethanol/90% gasoline), even though "they" say it won't cause damage, if you are running an older car with some build up (sludge) in the fuel tank, even 10% ethanol can cause this stuff to loosen up, and could clog your fuel filter. And of course, even without this problem, your gas mileage will decrease. Also, around here, E10 is about the same price as regular gasoline.
One thing in this whole ethanol debate that gets clouded over is the inefficiency of producing this stuff. Part of the reason is that the farm lobbies are pushing for it, and people are so blinded by the "fear" of foreign oil, which they incorrectly use to blame the increasing price of gas on. People buy into this Ethanol thing, and even this E85 thing thinking it will help control prices yet in reality, because of the high cost to produce this stuff, it could actually drive the price up.
Ethanol is not new. In fact, the Model T was designed to run 100% ethanol. But it's never been a sufficient replacement for oil, and all the recent stuff about it is just hype, playing into people's fears somewhat.
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From: USA
Multiple
Ethanol will not only decrease your gas mileage, it also burns hotter than gasoline and can cause valve damage in time. There is a ton of information on this additive on the internet.....just type it in Google and it will keep you busy for several days. Ethanol is being added to subsidize the corn industry in this country which is not necessarily a bad thing....but it is a political move. It also cannot be moved thru conventional pipelines so it must be transported via trucks or tankers, therefore using MORE fuel in order to move it around the country. Car manufacturers will most likely modify newer engines to be more "ethanol friendly."
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It costs no more to use parts that will not corrode when E-85 is used as a fuel. MB already has started building E-85 capable cars. See: http://www.e85fuel.com/information/mercedes.php E-85 cars can still use gasoline, and can use E-85 and Gasoline in any blend percentages.
Its is expensive to convert a cars parts to be compatible with E-85, but really no more expensive to build them that way. E-85 is a renewable fuel source, and will be a small 1st step in moving away from buying oil from those whose only goal in life is to destroy Western Culture, and go back to the 8th Century.
Whatever it takes to do this, we have to do, as painfull as it will be. We can only hope that the costs rise slowly enough so as not to throw the civilized world into an economic depression.
Its is expensive to convert a cars parts to be compatible with E-85, but really no more expensive to build them that way. E-85 is a renewable fuel source, and will be a small 1st step in moving away from buying oil from those whose only goal in life is to destroy Western Culture, and go back to the 8th Century.
Whatever it takes to do this, we have to do, as painfull as it will be. We can only hope that the costs rise slowly enough so as not to throw the civilized world into an economic depression.
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Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
It costs no more to use parts that will not corrode when E-85 is used as a fuel. MB already has started building E-85 capable cars. See: http://www.e85fuel.com/information/mercedes.php E-85 cars can still use gasoline, and can use E-85 and Gasoline in any blend percentages.
Its is expensive to convert a cars parts to be compatible with E-85, but really no more expensive to build them that way. E-85 is a renewable fuel source, and will be a small 1st step in moving away from buying oil from those whose only goal in life is to destroy Western Culture, and go back to the 8th Century.
Whatever it takes to do this, we have to do, as painfull as it will be. We can only hope that the costs rise slowly enough so as not to throw the civilized world into an economic depression.
Its is expensive to convert a cars parts to be compatible with E-85, but really no more expensive to build them that way. E-85 is a renewable fuel source, and will be a small 1st step in moving away from buying oil from those whose only goal in life is to destroy Western Culture, and go back to the 8th Century.
Whatever it takes to do this, we have to do, as painfull as it will be. We can only hope that the costs rise slowly enough so as not to throw the civilized world into an economic depression.
Yes, we do need to concentrate on effectively producing a renewable energy source. But we are far from that goal in terms of having an effect on our import of foreign oil. The ones who preach that it is either don't understand the situation, or are just following a political lead.
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Originally Posted by ctouhey
..... note posted on each pump saying "Contains Ethanol". I went to another station and they didn't have the sign so I filled up.
..
..
10 years ago, I used to shy away from gas with ethanol but I don't anymore.
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Originally Posted by S93
All Shell gas has 8-10% ethanol. http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
10 years ago, I used to shy away from gas with ethanol but I don't anymore.
10 years ago, I used to shy away from gas with ethanol but I don't anymore.
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Originally Posted by revstriker
Can I ask why you've changed your mind? I for one don't like the idea of gas companies like Shell selling blended gasoline for the same price that everyone else is selling pure. It's like you're paying more for less mpgs.
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From: Mansfield, TX
11 ML350W2 / 17 GLC300
The answer in Brazil is 100% ethanol. They grow their sugar and brew the ethanol from that. Most of their cars are labeled for "Flexfuel" and can burn any percentage of ethanol. The costs appeared to be about 10% cheaper for the 100% ethanol when you consider the difference in mileage.
All of the stations in my area now have the sticker that says up to 10% on the pump. Our current W211s are not rated for even E85 so I wouldn't want to have fuel with over 10% ethanol.
All of the stations in my area now have the sticker that says up to 10% on the pump. Our current W211s are not rated for even E85 so I wouldn't want to have fuel with over 10% ethanol.
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Originally Posted by S93
I used to think it harms the car, at least cars built several years ago. With MTBE on it's way out in 2 weeks, 8-10% ethanol could be in almost all gas. It doesn't have to be labelled at the pump.
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Originally Posted by JimPurdy
The answer in Brazil is 100% ethanol. They grow their sugar and brew the ethanol from that. Most of their cars are labeled for "Flexfuel" and can burn any percentage of ethanol. The costs appeared to be about 10% cheaper for the 100% ethanol when you consider the difference in mileage.
Next, you cannot really compare the cost per gallon of Ethanol and compare it to gasoline. You can say it's 10% cheaper, but it also does not produce the power that gasoline produces. Cars running even on E85 (85% ethanol) will see a 25% decrease in miles per gallon. So when you do the math, gasoline is cheaper, even if it's cost per gallon is 10% more.
All of the stations in my area now have the sticker that says up to 10% on the pump. Our current W211s are not rated for even E85 so I wouldn't want to have fuel with over 10% ethanol.
I can't imagine anyone really wanting to use E85 in their car, even if it was flex fuel rated. The only reasons I could see someone doing this is if they either didn't understand they were now paying more, or they felt that paying a little more was worth "saving" the environment (In which case, they are probably hoping that Al Gore will run in 08
).
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From: Mansfield, TX
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Originally Posted by JimPurdy
The costs appeared to be about 10% cheaper for the 100% ethanol when you consider the difference in mileage.
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I don't know what you guys worry about. 3 oz. gin 1 oz vodka, 1/2 oz vermouth, 2 drops of lemon (real stuff) shaken not stirred. Then pour it into your tank,, after 2 tanks you will definitely notice a difference. 
But I also watch for alke at the gas pump. I think this situation will change soon. With gas going over $3.00 / gal you will see more of this. The cost advantage will switch to alcohol even with the BTU difference. I wish the MB and Vet could run 100% alcohol and be dual fueled. But then it is difficult to get 2 drops of lemon in the gas tank.
Ya'll have fun. Jim
But I also watch for alke at the gas pump. I think this situation will change soon. With gas going over $3.00 / gal you will see more of this. The cost advantage will switch to alcohol even with the BTU difference. I wish the MB and Vet could run 100% alcohol and be dual fueled. But then it is difficult to get 2 drops of lemon in the gas tank.
Ya'll have fun. Jim
