Stealership got me I'm affraid
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Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 132
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From: Kansas City
2007 E350 Sport Obsidian Black & 2005 Cadillac Escalade
Stealership got me I'm affraid
OK, Lease was up on my 2003 C240 so I decided to go for the 2007 E350 with Prem1 pkg, Sport Pkg & few other options with total price of 55,895 less 2,850 Cap Reduction. Ttl due at signing was 4,522 (included 1st pmt, Cap Reduction Sales/Use Tax, Title Fees, License Fees, Admin Fee). Residual Value is 39,305. Rent Charge is 5,236.41 (ouch & what is this- seems like the salesman said money factor is .0025). With all said & done my Base monthly pmt is $702.83 & Total pmt with tax is $756.60 for 27 months. And I don't even have the car yet. It should be here next wk or two. How hosed did I get? 
Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
OK, Lease was up on my 2003 C240 so I decided to go for the 2007 E350 with Prem1 pkg, Sport Pkg & few other options with total price of 55,895 less 2,850 Cap Reduction. Ttl due at signing was 4,522 (included 1st pmt, Cap Reduction Sales/Use Tax, Title Fees, License Fees, Admin Fee). Residual Value is 39,305. Rent Charge is 5,236.41 (ouch & what is this- seems like the salesman said money factor is .0025). With all said & done my Base monthly pmt is $702.83 & Total pmt with tax is $756.60 for 27 months. And I don't even have the car yet. It should be here next wk or two. How hosed did I get? Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Rates will vary with your credit and FICO score. The best credits usually get the best deals. I have allways felt that leases do not make sense except for a business purchase that is a write off and the capitol reduction payment never makes sense as it is money you will never see again. You must factor that into your payments. Why not have him run the numbers again without the capitol reduction and putting down a refundable deposit instead. 9000 will usually save you over a hundred bucks a month and you get it back at the end. I have done this with MBCC and its usually reserved for top tier credits.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Kansas City
2007 E350 Sport Obsidian Black & 2005 Cadillac Escalade
Sosh, thanks for the input. I didn't special order the car. The salesman did a computer search yesterday & found it was equipped similar to what I wanted. My credit is in the high 700's so that should not have been an issue. I'll definitely have them re-work some of the numbers. At the time I thought it was a somewhat fair deal till I was on here seeing others payments. Thanks again!
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From: Long Island, New York
2018 E400 4matic Wagon
OK, Lease was up on my 2003 C240 so I decided to go for the 2007 E350 with Prem1 pkg, Sport Pkg & few other options with total price of 55,895 less 2,850 Cap Reduction. Ttl due at signing was 4,522 (included 1st pmt, Cap Reduction Sales/Use Tax, Title Fees, License Fees, Admin Fee). Residual Value is 39,305. Rent Charge is 5,236.41 (ouch & what is this- seems like the salesman said money factor is .0025). With all said & done my Base monthly pmt is $702.83 & Total pmt with tax is $756.60 for 27 months. And I don't even have the car yet. It should be here next wk or two. How hosed did I get? Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefullyAlso, your MSRP is $2180 higher, and you're paying approx. 30% of that in lease payments, which is another $24/mo. So, adding $579 + $68 + $24 gets you to $671/mo.
Finally, the lease special permits only 22,500 miles of use (10k per year). Are you perhaps getting more miles? If so, you're paying more per month to get more usage.
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The lease special is for a car with a MSRP $53,715 less dealer contribution (discount) resulting in capitalized cost of $51,873. The discount of $1842 accounts for $68 per month, not counting interest on the $1842. If your dealer didn't discount off MSRP, you're paying that much more, plus interest on that amount.
Also, your MSRP is $2180 higher, and you're paying approx. 30% of that in lease payments, which is another $24/mo. So, adding $579 + $68 + $24 gets you to $671/mo.
Finally, the lease special permits only 22,500 miles of use (10k per year). Are you perhaps getting more miles? If so, you're paying more per month to get more usage.
Also, your MSRP is $2180 higher, and you're paying approx. 30% of that in lease payments, which is another $24/mo. So, adding $579 + $68 + $24 gets you to $671/mo.
Finally, the lease special permits only 22,500 miles of use (10k per year). Are you perhaps getting more miles? If so, you're paying more per month to get more usage.
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From: Encino, CA
a toy
OK, Lease was up on my 2003 C240 so I decided to go for the 2007 E350 with Prem1 pkg, Sport Pkg & few other options with total price of 55,895 less 2,850 Cap Reduction. Ttl due at signing was 4,522 (included 1st pmt, Cap Reduction Sales/Use Tax, Title Fees, License Fees, Admin Fee). Residual Value is 39,305. Rent Charge is 5,236.41 (ouch & what is this- seems like the salesman said money factor is .0025). With all said & done my Base monthly pmt is $702.83 & Total pmt with tax is $756.60 for 27 months. And I don't even have the car yet. It should be here next wk or two. How hosed did I get? Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefully
Lease special on mbusa is for $579/mo +taxes. How on earth did I end up at 702 + tax. I don't have that much in addtl options. I'm feeling pretty ashamed of myself at the moment... Hope the car looks good. It's Obsidian Black / Black MB tex with Brown wood.... hopefullyMB World Stories
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Super Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Central Jersey
2003 E500, 2004 G35X
Your are paying sticker price and that's not a good deal from the outset, and if your interest charge(same as money factor) is $5236.41, that's a hell of high interest charge for a, say, 3 year lease because if the residual value is $39,305, then you are paying $5236 for financing $16,590 if my math is correct!
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Your are paying sticker price and that's not a good deal from the outset, and if your interest charge(same as money factor) is $5236.41, that's a hell of high interest charge for a, say, 3 year lease because if the residual value is $39,305, then you are paying $5236 for financing $16,590 if my math is correct!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: NJ
2007 E350 Sport
tlbeedy - the deal is bad... Using the numbers from their nationally-advertised deal ($579/mo), the lease for your car should be $650, including 7% sales tax. 9 times out of 10, you can beat the advertised deal, since dealers actually offer deeper discounts off the selling price. I would expect you should be able to get it down to about $600/month without much negotiation (all else, such as money down, being equal), provided you have some competition around where you are (where are you, anyway?). Looks like the dealer is ripping you off on the money factor as well (the advertised number works out to about .0018).
I say you walk and save yourself at least a couple of hundred bucks a month without doing much work.
I say you walk and save yourself at least a couple of hundred bucks a month without doing much work.
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From: San Carlos (SF Peninsula) CA
'03 ML500, '07 E350 Sport (wife's)
Always seems to be a deal on everything but what I want. Poor timing, I guess, or just really particular about what I want. Curious to see how you do. I need to negotiate a price on our E350 Sport due in port in a couple days. No money has exchanged hands, despite it being configured exactly as we wanted. Sticker is just over 60K (yes, loaded with goodies) with invoice according to edmunds about 4K less. Any thoughts on what we should pay to purchase? Sorry to hijack the thread.
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Always seems to be a deal on everything but what I want. Poor timing, I guess, or just really particular about what I want. Curious to see how you do. I need to negotiate a price on our E350 Sport due in port in a couple days. No money has exchanged hands, despite it being configured exactly as we wanted. Sticker is just over 60K (yes, loaded with goodies) with invoice according to edmunds about 4K less. Any thoughts on what we should pay to purchase? Sorry to hijack the thread.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
You mean that if a business person makes a very substancial investment in a facility, salaries, training,employee benefits, inventory, etc that he is not entitled to a reasonable profit?? The mark up on vehicles these days is not great, with MB about 10 percent including the holdback. I don't know what you do for a living but there are few businesses that can survive on a 10 percent mark up. Have you seen a dealer's financial statement lately?? What are you, a socialist?? Perhaps you should join a commune and live off of the land.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Yeah, I kinda feel bad that everyone knows what they pay for a vehicle, & how slim the markup is, but they do beat up the manufacturer every chance they get with fraudulent line items on almost every RO, (be it time or items not actually installed) and when you DO need a "Pay" service... well, the prices are legendary for what you are getting! I'm not gonna cry for them yet, but it does seem an awfull lot of money to invest in a business for such a slim margin. There are other, less aggravating, more profitable ways to invest such an amount of money.
...but I really think that just as we are heading to an environment where all new vehicles are leased, not bought new, I think Manufacturers will eventually purchase and operate the dealerships directly, so we will be leasing directly from the manufacturer at a factory owned dealership. They keep the factories humming, dealers won't have to try to survive all the regular buisness problems on thin margins & ultimately, the consumer will get better product & service because any problems with the cars will be heard directly and loudly by the "factory" owning the dealership. Nothing will be "lost in the translation".
...but I really think that just as we are heading to an environment where all new vehicles are leased, not bought new, I think Manufacturers will eventually purchase and operate the dealerships directly, so we will be leasing directly from the manufacturer at a factory owned dealership. They keep the factories humming, dealers won't have to try to survive all the regular buisness problems on thin margins & ultimately, the consumer will get better product & service because any problems with the cars will be heard directly and loudly by the "factory" owning the dealership. Nothing will be "lost in the translation".
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,260
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Yeah, I kinda feel bad that everyone knows what they pay for a vehicle, & how slim the markup is, but they do beat up the manufacturer every chance they get with fraudulent line items on almost every RO, (be it time or items not actually installed) and when you DO need a "Pay" service... well, the prices are legendary for what you are getting! I'm not gonna cry for them yet, but it does seem an awfull lot of money to invest in a business for such a slim margin. There are other, less aggravating, more profitable ways to invest such an amount of money.
...but I really think that just as we are heading to an environment where all new vehicles are leased, not bought new, I think Manufacturers will eventually purchase and operate the dealerships directly, so we will be leasing directly from the manufacturer at a factory owned dealership. They keep the factories humming, dealers won't have to try to survive all the regular buisness problems on thin margins & ultimately, the consumer will get better product & service because any problems with the cars will be heard directly and loudly by the "factory" owning the dealership. Nothing will be "lost in the translation".
...but I really think that just as we are heading to an environment where all new vehicles are leased, not bought new, I think Manufacturers will eventually purchase and operate the dealerships directly, so we will be leasing directly from the manufacturer at a factory owned dealership. They keep the factories humming, dealers won't have to try to survive all the regular buisness problems on thin margins & ultimately, the consumer will get better product & service because any problems with the cars will be heard directly and loudly by the "factory" owning the dealership. Nothing will be "lost in the translation".
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Barry, I believe you are talking about service, not sales. I am a bit familiar with the business models for a dealership. New cars are a loser. Profits are made in the used dept, service and somewhat in parts. And it takes lots of volume in those areas to overcome the losses in the new dept. But you cannot have one without the other. Warranty repairs are scrutinized by the mfg to a great extent. Lots are rejected and the dealer must eat them. Having owned several aircraft dealerships in my career I can tell you what will happen if the mfgerers take over the dealerships. Their sales volume will decrease and the profit per unit will be higher. The level of service will decline as will the personal relationships that had been developed with independent dealers. That is what happened to the aircraft industry. There will be little or no negotiation on purchase and all else like warranty there will be no discussion as to the repair being warrantable. Everything is black and white per the rules. There will be one parts price nationwide and one sales price nationwide. The only good thing will be that the resale on used vehicles will be higher as the sales volume will be lower at higher prices. My comments could go on for pages but think about all the ramifications and the legal aspects of this
Yeah, you're probably right... there would be no competition. I'm in Retail too. ...I guess consolidation & vertical integration may not be so good for the consumer.
But... aren't the "personal relationships" that matter, made in the Service & Parts Departments? I think you're better off with a friend in the back of the house than in the front.
Since 1978, I've never been back to any dealership that I've bought a car or truck at, 3-4 years later and found the same salesman I bought my vehicle from still there. (Unless I had bought from a member of the Owner's Family). As a matter of fact, since 1984, ANY dealership I have bought a car from, the Mfg has yanked the Franchise, or The salesman has been fired and/or the dealership has burned to the ground within 4 months of getting the car.
My wife laughs that I must get my deals from their "dying breaths".
(Guys at the Dealership... If you're reading this. Don't Panic.)
Last edited by Barry45RPM; Feb 13, 2007 at 02:48 PM.
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Ok this I don't understand...you are all calling them Stealerships. They are there to Sell cars and make a profit. That is there function. They are not there to sell cars at cost. The only way I can see a dealer ripping someone off is that if they provide them with mis information or if they are getting you into a car that you do not want. I dont' know about anyone else, but if i went to a dealership and they didn't have what I wanted, but went out of their way to get it for me, I would understand paying more. Go into any Sak's, or fine furniture store....you never hear people saying they got ripped off for paying $12,000 for a natuzzi sofa, or $4,000 for that Louis purse. From what I understand, The dealerships don't make much money on the cars anyway, the finance and service depts. is how they keep their doors open. So give them a break and feel lucky that you have the ability to even consider driving one. Just my .02
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Ok this I don't understand...you are all calling them Stealerships. They are there to Sell cars and make a profit. That is there function. They are not there to sell cars at cost. The only way I can see a dealer ripping someone off is that if they provide them with mis information or if they are getting you into a car that you do not want. I dont' know about anyone else, but if i went to a dealership and they didn't have what I wanted, but went out of their way to get it for me, I would understand paying more. Go into any Sak's, or fine furniture store....you never hear people saying they got ripped off for paying $12,000 for a natuzzi sofa, or $4,000 for that Louis purse. From what I understand, The dealerships don't make much money on the cars anyway, the finance and service depts. is how they keep their doors open. So give them a break and feel lucky that you have the ability to even consider driving one. Just my .02
I totally agree and the stealer word really offends me. The people that use it and complain just do not understand what being in business is all about. They sit there and collect a pay check without a thought of where and how the money to pay them was generated or the risks that the owners of the businesss assume to produce that pay check. See my post a few back. These people are in effect socialists and would be better off living on a commune. You hear nothing about the profit made on groceries or medicine but only on a luxury car. In my estimation MB should raise the price of these cars to the point where this type of person could not afford one. Maybe that would keep them quiet. Capitolism and business profits are what keep our economy moving and paychecks coming.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 880
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From: Encino, CA
a toy
MBDALLAS, keep in mind that not all dealers are the same. Some of them deserve the utmost respect, while others aren't even worthy of the Stealership moniker.
I got my E350 from (MBLN) Mercedes of Laguna Niguel and I completely enjoyed the whole process. The dealer was excellent, the knowledge and selection were amazing, everything was simply top notch. Of course I negotiated on the price to get a better deal, but that's nothing out of the ordinary and was fairly easy as well.
Now on the other hand, I've had some terrible experiences from other dealers. One such scenario that comes to mind is an issue I had with Cadillac's service department. They took the car in for a non-warranty repair, diagnosed the problem and came back with a $7XX estimate to replace the security module. For some reason I declined the repair because something about the mechanic's explanation just didn't click. I paid my $75 diagnostic charge and when the car came back the alarm and keyfob were working normally again. It's been working consistently for almost a handful of years now and no parts were replaced. Now, how do you refer to such a dealership? Oh and just to add, their sales department isn't any better than that either.
I got my E350 from (MBLN) Mercedes of Laguna Niguel and I completely enjoyed the whole process. The dealer was excellent, the knowledge and selection were amazing, everything was simply top notch. Of course I negotiated on the price to get a better deal, but that's nothing out of the ordinary and was fairly easy as well.
Now on the other hand, I've had some terrible experiences from other dealers. One such scenario that comes to mind is an issue I had with Cadillac's service department. They took the car in for a non-warranty repair, diagnosed the problem and came back with a $7XX estimate to replace the security module. For some reason I declined the repair because something about the mechanic's explanation just didn't click. I paid my $75 diagnostic charge and when the car came back the alarm and keyfob were working normally again. It's been working consistently for almost a handful of years now and no parts were replaced. Now, how do you refer to such a dealership? Oh and just to add, their sales department isn't any better than that either.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 6
From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
MBDALLAS, keep in mind that not all dealers are the same. Some of them deserve the utmost respect, while others aren't even worthy of the Stealership moniker.
I got my E350 from (MBLN) Mercedes of Laguna Niguel and I completely enjoyed the whole process. The dealer was excellent, the knowledge and selection were amazing, everything was simply top notch. Of course I negotiated on the price to get a better deal, but that's nothing out of the ordinary and was fairly easy as well.
Now on the other hand, I've had some terrible experiences from other dealers. One such scenario that comes to mind is an issue I had with Cadillac's service department. They took the car in for a non-warranty repair, diagnosed the problem and came back with a $7XX estimate to replace the security module. For some reason I declined the repair because something about the mechanic's explanation just didn't click. I paid my $75 diagnostic charge and when the car came back the alarm and keyfob were working normally again. It's been working consistently for almost a handful of years now and no parts were replaced. Now, how do you refer to such a dealership? Oh and just to add, their sales department isn't any better than that either.
I got my E350 from (MBLN) Mercedes of Laguna Niguel and I completely enjoyed the whole process. The dealer was excellent, the knowledge and selection were amazing, everything was simply top notch. Of course I negotiated on the price to get a better deal, but that's nothing out of the ordinary and was fairly easy as well.
Now on the other hand, I've had some terrible experiences from other dealers. One such scenario that comes to mind is an issue I had with Cadillac's service department. They took the car in for a non-warranty repair, diagnosed the problem and came back with a $7XX estimate to replace the security module. For some reason I declined the repair because something about the mechanic's explanation just didn't click. I paid my $75 diagnostic charge and when the car came back the alarm and keyfob were working normally again. It's been working consistently for almost a handful of years now and no parts were replaced. Now, how do you refer to such a dealership? Oh and just to add, their sales department isn't any better than that either.
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From: SF
07 E63 06 CLK55 Cab 03 P-car C4S
I totally agree and the stealer word really offends me. The people that use it and complain just do not understand what being in business is all about. They sit there and collect a pay check without a thought of where and how the money to pay them was generated or the risks that the owners of the businesss assume to produce that pay check. See my post a few back. These people are in effect socialists and would be better off living on a commune. You hear nothing about the profit made on groceries or medicine but only on a luxury car. In my estimation MB should raise the price of these cars to the point where this type of person could not afford one. Maybe that would keep them quiet. Capitolism and business profits are what keep our economy moving and paychecks coming.
p.s. when i worked in the dealing with retail business when there's room for price negation, i always felt it was unfair that often times the jerks actually get better prices than the nice people. just my $.02.
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2007 E63, 2015 Tesla, 2013 911S Cab
I'm sorry you guys that work for the dealerships feel like you get no respect. I am in business and totally understand that you have to make money.... BUT its a very competitive world out there and if the car was head and shoulders better than what else was out there you would get a premium (as when the E first came out). If there wasn't as much supply you would get a premium. Bottom line, too many cars fighting for too few buyers. Don't blame savvy buyers for negotiating the best deal - if you guys don't think its a good deal, don't sell the car. My own business has gotten much more competitive over the last 5 yrs and I constantly tell our engineering we have to be 5-10X better than the competition to justify a higher price. Sometimes I get the deal because my product is so much better but I don't get the premium. This is life in the fast paced internet informed world - live by it - or be old school and go out of business. Dealers are still running their business "old school".
We ARE complaining about dealerships that take advantage of the misinformed (or uneducated) buyer. If there is a national deal available and a dealer charges you more than whats out there it's wrong. You can say that its the buyers fault for not knowing but thats not what I expect from MB and a premium car. I have had 8 MB's now and there is one dealer i would never buy from again, ever (Smythe in San Jose). Others I have been treated with respect and the experience has been pleasurable (and yes, i paid a premium because of it).
cheers,
eric
We ARE complaining about dealerships that take advantage of the misinformed (or uneducated) buyer. If there is a national deal available and a dealer charges you more than whats out there it's wrong. You can say that its the buyers fault for not knowing but thats not what I expect from MB and a premium car. I have had 8 MB's now and there is one dealer i would never buy from again, ever (Smythe in San Jose). Others I have been treated with respect and the experience has been pleasurable (and yes, i paid a premium because of it).
cheers,
eric
