MB Electronics
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Or a Honda Accord. Same as the Acura but with Touch Screen functionality. Its true, our stuff is of an ancient design. The only defense they have is that they were busy trying to get the bugs out of the 211's poor overall initial design & implementation. But they werent. (Till someone kicked them in the ***) They were complacent & resting on their laurels, building 20th Century cars years after we entered the 21st Century.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 23
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From: Ft. Worth, Texas
06 E320 CDI
When it says "Turn Right Now" you will be right at the turn, not near it
I agree with all the main points of this thread. I really like my car a lot, but the electronics in it leave much to be desired. My wife's Lexus is a year older than my E320, and the nav system in it is superior in every respect. I spent $700 on a Garmin 2820 for my motorcycle that has integrated Bluetooth support, MP3, and is satellite radio ready. It's a far better system than my car's, but I hesitate to use it in the car because you have to find a place to put and and you have to hide it, or take it with you, when you get where you are going, just as Barry has pointed out.
Ed
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,212
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
When we talk about electronics, what are we speaking about, just Nav?
Or other gadgets like auto trunk closer(havent seen another marque with that), Keyless go(Im pretty sure MB was the first), Distronic(I think maybe BMW is the only other company with that?), Parktronic(again the first to go main stream with it), ventilated seats, massaging seats, IR driving view, Pre-safe(I think is what its called), all the wonderful suspension systems, illuminated door sills, panoramic roof... Should I go on?
Im pretty confident Benz has the best gadgets around, sometimes its the gadgets that decrease the reliability. Of the early W211s, those that were completely bare with accessories and options were the ones that had no issues...
Last edited by 55fanatic; May 6, 2007 at 01:13 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Quite frankly, some of us might be more interested in core qualities like suspensions, engines, transmissions and brakes rather than electronic gadgets.
Honda/Acura have good electronic gadgets but their brakes leave much to be desired and Honda doesn't build rear wheel drive cars.
Lexus have a reputation for quality but every single one of their safety features appeared after the Germans did the innovation and R&D on them. Toyota/Lexus typically trail the Germans in things like engine technology and transmission options.
Who lead the Japanese and Americans in things like fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable intake manifolds, variable valve lift, silicone cylinder bores, four valve heads, etc. The list is almost endless?
The Japanese are better at marketing than the Germans but if it wasn't for the Germans, the Japanese wouldn't have much to sell.
Honda/Acura have good electronic gadgets but their brakes leave much to be desired and Honda doesn't build rear wheel drive cars.
Lexus have a reputation for quality but every single one of their safety features appeared after the Germans did the innovation and R&D on them. Toyota/Lexus typically trail the Germans in things like engine technology and transmission options.
Who lead the Japanese and Americans in things like fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable intake manifolds, variable valve lift, silicone cylinder bores, four valve heads, etc. The list is almost endless?
The Japanese are better at marketing than the Germans but if it wasn't for the Germans, the Japanese wouldn't have much to sell.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,146
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Are we buyers of sizzle or steak ?
Quite frankly, some of us might be more interested in core qualities like suspensions, engines, transmissions and brakes rather than electronic gadgets.
Who lead the Japanese and Americans in things like fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable intake manifolds, variable valve lift, silicone cylinder bores, four valve heads, etc. The list is almost endless?
The Japanese are better at marketing than the Germans but if it wasn't for the Germans, the Japanese wouldn't have much to sell.
Who lead the Japanese and Americans in things like fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable intake manifolds, variable valve lift, silicone cylinder bores, four valve heads, etc. The list is almost endless?
The Japanese are better at marketing than the Germans but if it wasn't for the Germans, the Japanese wouldn't have much to sell.
I think that most MB and BMW buyers are more interested in the steak than the sizzle. I would describe NAV systems as "sizzle".
To your list, I would add such important engineeering achievements as the safety cell with crumple zones, anti-lock brakes, air bags, belt tensioners and CDI diesels, all of which were pioneered by Mercedes-Benz.
I cannot think of one major innovation in Japanese auto engineering that has been adopted by other manufacturers. Nor can I think of any Japanese original automotive design that has captured the world's admiration for outstanding aesthetic achievement in metal.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 606
Likes: 4
From: Bellevue, WA
.... nothing to brag about, it is a previous model....
hmm.... Isn't this kind of attitude caused what GM's problem faces today?
Besides e-valve, hybrid, they do have lots innovation.
I think the question is not "who started first", but "who will finished it well"?
Early 1990, Lexus LS was competing w/ E class.
15 years later, Lexus LS goes head to head w/ S class. Why?
Why are those corporate executives switching?
What do they see that we don't?
I am sure those corporate executives making easy 7 figures, but why they chose Lexus instead of Mercedes?
At MS Edmonds Campus, Boeing Everett, I saw more Lexus than Mercedes on their parking lot.
These top engineers definitely has High IQ, I am sure they are extremely smart and understand every aspect of Mechanical, Electronical engineering.
But why do they chose Lexus over Mercedes?
These people who are smarter than me, and got more money then I do driving Lexus....what does that mean?
Besides e-valve, hybrid, they do have lots innovation.
I think the question is not "who started first", but "who will finished it well"?
Early 1990, Lexus LS was competing w/ E class.
15 years later, Lexus LS goes head to head w/ S class. Why?
Why are those corporate executives switching?
What do they see that we don't?
I am sure those corporate executives making easy 7 figures, but why they chose Lexus instead of Mercedes?
At MS Edmonds Campus, Boeing Everett, I saw more Lexus than Mercedes on their parking lot.
These top engineers definitely has High IQ, I am sure they are extremely smart and understand every aspect of Mechanical, Electronical engineering.
But why do they chose Lexus over Mercedes?
These people who are smarter than me, and got more money then I do driving Lexus....what does that mean?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,146
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Japanese "innovation" or marketing success ?
Why are some people choosing Lexus over Mercedes ? There are lots of reasons. Reliability (real or perceived), high quality of assembly, value for the dollar, perhaps more customer friendly dealerships (lack of German arrogance) and superior marketing.
But guess which manufacturer had the highest number of world-wide recalls last year, exceeding the number of vehicles produced ? Toyota/Lexus !!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: NW Ohio
2008 335 vert, 2004 MDX
My wife's RX400 has been great so far. It's getting 25.3mpg right now after 1100mi of city driving. Warm weather mileage is definitely better than what we were getting over the winter. I think the motor has to run more often when it's cold to provide heat.
As far as electronics, the Lexus nav is much better than my E55's. Part of that is the nav itself (Lexus doesn't give you a "range" of addresses), and part of it is the fact the data is just newer.
But the Lexus isn't that far ahead of my car. The touch screen for the nav is great, as long as you don't want to use it while moving. If you're on the go, the screen won't take commands, even from the passenger. You can use the voice commands on the go, but you have to remember what the recognized commands are.
IPod integration in the 400? Sure, just get a casette adapter. That's right, the tech heavy RX400 hybrid has no mp3 jack but does have a casette player!
Last is the dang screen. If I shut the Benz down with sat radio on the display, sat radio will be there when I start the car again. My wife's Lexus doesn't like to keep the radio display up. It always defaults to something else. This is really annoying when leaving the house. I pick my station and put the car in reverse. This puts the backup camera on the display. Put the car in drive and tah dah! - The display defaults to nav. But guess what? You haven't agreed to the disclaimer on the screen yet (which you have to do every time you start the car). Press the radio again to bring up it's display and it'll stay there until you shut the car off or put in reverse.
As far as electronics, the Lexus nav is much better than my E55's. Part of that is the nav itself (Lexus doesn't give you a "range" of addresses), and part of it is the fact the data is just newer.
But the Lexus isn't that far ahead of my car. The touch screen for the nav is great, as long as you don't want to use it while moving. If you're on the go, the screen won't take commands, even from the passenger. You can use the voice commands on the go, but you have to remember what the recognized commands are.
IPod integration in the 400? Sure, just get a casette adapter. That's right, the tech heavy RX400 hybrid has no mp3 jack but does have a casette player!
Last is the dang screen. If I shut the Benz down with sat radio on the display, sat radio will be there when I start the car again. My wife's Lexus doesn't like to keep the radio display up. It always defaults to something else. This is really annoying when leaving the house. I pick my station and put the car in reverse. This puts the backup camera on the display. Put the car in drive and tah dah! - The display defaults to nav. But guess what? You haven't agreed to the disclaimer on the screen yet (which you have to do every time you start the car). Press the radio again to bring up it's display and it'll stay there until you shut the car off or put in reverse.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
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Tesla Model S P100D
Um how about rock-solid reliable cars with features that work dependably? I'd call this a major innovation in the auto engineering industry. US car manufacturers didn't get it and sat on their laurels, and look where they are now? Hopefully European car manufacturers have learned a lesson there. I'm not even going to go into the cost and value aspect of the equation, as I'd gladly pay more for a superior implementation. I for one sincerely hope that electronic user interface engineering and reliability are innovations that will be better embraced by MB when I'm ready to purchase my next vehicle!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,492
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From: Canada
2004 E500 / 2001 C240
It appears to me that Mercedes sub contrtacted the Nav out to another company - you can't blame Mercedes for the engineering of the NAV (although I like it).
The other issue is that our cars NAV was probably engineered in 2002 or possibly 2003. A lot has changed since then. Anyone here have an S class? Is the NAV in these new cars any better?
I too love the engine, suspension, feel of the car when I am on the highway more then any other car I have driven. As long as I had SAT radio and a fast, great handling car I would be happy - and my car has these features.
The other issue is that our cars NAV was probably engineered in 2002 or possibly 2003. A lot has changed since then. Anyone here have an S class? Is the NAV in these new cars any better?
I too love the engine, suspension, feel of the car when I am on the highway more then any other car I have driven. As long as I had SAT radio and a fast, great handling car I would be happy - and my car has these features.
Last edited by ATS; May 7, 2007 at 12:50 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2003
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From: Houston, TX
2015 E250D
I can tell you the rear view camera on the new S class is made in Japan by the same company that makes the nav units on the toyotas. Maybe they are moving to different manufacturers?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
‘08 E-350 Sport, C6 Vette & Harley Davidson
Jimm
==========
On order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Rear shade, Voice, Bluetooth,
Burl Walnut, Split rear seat, rear mud flaps
Last edited by jimm; May 7, 2007 at 10:32 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
I don't think anyone is saying that the Japanese are stupid. It was a Japanese engineer that was hired by Ferrari's F1 team to help them design the latest engines. This is the same engineer who helped design the Honda engines that won the World Championship for McLaren.
However, I think it's fair to say that the Japanese are seldom impacted by leading edge windburn. They generally let someone else do the innovation and R&D before they adopt something.
My house is full of Japanese consumer electronics but my Bryston amp came from Canada and my Cotter pre-amp came from New York. When it comes to the heavy hitters, I seldom find it from the Japanese. That's not their bailiwick because there isn't enough profit in it.
What's interesting is that the Mark Levinson components used by Toyota may be Levinson in name only because that world famous name in high end audio is now owned by the Harmon Group.
However, I think it's fair to say that the Japanese are seldom impacted by leading edge windburn. They generally let someone else do the innovation and R&D before they adopt something.
My house is full of Japanese consumer electronics but my Bryston amp came from Canada and my Cotter pre-amp came from New York. When it comes to the heavy hitters, I seldom find it from the Japanese. That's not their bailiwick because there isn't enough profit in it.
What's interesting is that the Mark Levinson components used by Toyota may be Levinson in name only because that world famous name in high end audio is now owned by the Harmon Group.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,017
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Its the leader of the expedition, not the look-out on the mast of the ship (who is getting all windburnt) who gets all the credit for discovering a new continent.
The sad fact is that poor electronic design and reliability nearly distroyed a 100 year old legacy of superior engineering by MB. Its NOT who is 1st.... Its who is BEST that insures success.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; May 7, 2007 at 11:04 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,492
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From: Canada
2004 E500 / 2001 C240
I don't think anyone is saying that the Japanese are stupid. It was a Japanese engineer that was hired by Ferrari's F1 team to help them design the latest engines. This is the same engineer who helped design the Honda engines that won the World Championship for McLaren.
However, I think it's fair to say that the Japanese are seldom impacted by leading edge windburn. They generally let someone else do the innovation and R&D before they adopt something.
My house is full of Japanese consumer electronics but my Bryston amp came from Canada and my Cotter pre-amp came from New York. When it comes to the heavy hitters, I seldom find it from the Japanese. That's not their bailiwick because there isn't enough profit in it.
What's interesting is that the Mark Levinson components used by Toyota may be Levinson in name only because that world famous name in high end audio is now owned by the Harmon Group.
However, I think it's fair to say that the Japanese are seldom impacted by leading edge windburn. They generally let someone else do the innovation and R&D before they adopt something.
My house is full of Japanese consumer electronics but my Bryston amp came from Canada and my Cotter pre-amp came from New York. When it comes to the heavy hitters, I seldom find it from the Japanese. That's not their bailiwick because there isn't enough profit in it.
What's interesting is that the Mark Levinson components used by Toyota may be Levinson in name only because that world famous name in high end audio is now owned by the Harmon Group.
Which Bryston amp do you have, in the early 90's I had a Bryston 3B, I loved it.
Does anyone here have a S class or anyone demo'd the NAV? Has it improved?
I am thinking about getting a 2nd year E class (new model coming out in 2009?) when they go for sale, so I am sure things will be improved.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
The 1st generation of something is seldom very good. Just because someone else comes up with an idea, its the company that perfects it and makes it dependable, and user friendly, and then the standard by which others are judged... those are the people who deserve the success. Merely coming up with a great idea that doesn't work well, or is "clunky" is not what keeps you number one.
Its the leader of the expedition, not the look-out on the mast of the ship (who is getting all windburnt) who gets all the credit for discovering a new continent.
The sad fact is that poor electronic design and reliability nearly distroyed a 100 year old legacy of superior engineering by MB. Its NOT who is 1st.... Its who is BEST that insures success.
Its the leader of the expedition, not the look-out on the mast of the ship (who is getting all windburnt) who gets all the credit for discovering a new continent.
The sad fact is that poor electronic design and reliability nearly distroyed a 100 year old legacy of superior engineering by MB. Its NOT who is 1st.... Its who is BEST that insures success.
Anyway, someone has to push the envelope and in automotive engineering, it's the Germans. It may be appreciated by some (Europeans) but not others (Americans).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,794
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Honda hasn't done a thing in F1 in forever. Mercedes and Ferrari are the cutting edge teams today.
Which Bryston amp do you have, in the early 90's I had a Bryston 3B, I loved it.
Does anyone here have a S class or anyone demo'd the NAV? Has it improved?
I am thinking about getting a 2nd year E class (new model coming out in 2009?) when they go for sale, so I am sure things will be improved.
Which Bryston amp do you have, in the early 90's I had a Bryston 3B, I loved it.
Does anyone here have a S class or anyone demo'd the NAV? Has it improved?
I am thinking about getting a 2nd year E class (new model coming out in 2009?) when they go for sale, so I am sure things will be improved.
I have a Bryston 4B but started out with a used 3B. I called Bryston and asked that what it would cost to go over it. They asked me if I had a box for it and when I told them no, they sent me one. Then after I sent them the amplifier, they went over it completely and returned it to me with no charge. That''s why I bought a new 4B.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,632
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
I have a Bryston 4B but started out with a used 3B. I called Bryston and asked that what it would cost to go over it. They asked me if I had a box for it and when I told them no, they sent me one. Then after I sent them the amplifier, they went over it completely and returned it to me with no charge. That''s why I bought a new 4B.
Glitzy ad campaigns don’t earn customer loyalty and referrals. What some of these bone heads out there don’t understand is marketing is not just ads. How a customer complaint is handled is what determines your future relationship. The response must be immediate and more than fair. Fix it quick, and fix it well. It may cost you big, but it will pay off in the future. IMHO customers who run into problems but whose problems are handled swiftly and politely actually wind up being more loyal than customers who never encounter a problem in the first place!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
‘08 E-350 Sport, C6 Vette & Harley Davidson
Barry -
I don’t know how you do it!
You just keep hitting nails on heads!
Jimm
==========
On order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
I don’t know how you do it!
You just keep hitting nails on heads!
Jimm
==========
On order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
Last edited by jimm; May 8, 2007 at 12:37 AM.
