Barry45RPM

Or a Honda Accord. Same as the Acura but with Touch Screen functionality. Its true, our stuff is of an ancient design. The only defense they have is that they were busy trying to get the bugs out of the 211's poor overall initial design & implementation. But they werent. (Till someone kicked them in the ***) They were complacent & resting on their laurels, building 20th Century cars years after we entered the 21st Century.

dfwe320cdi

Except when it tells you to turn the wrong way on a 1-way street. I had this happen once in downtown Ft. Worth, Texas, where the road configuration hasn't changed in 20 years.

I agree with all the main points of this thread. I really like my car a lot, but the electronics in it leave much to be desired. My wife's Lexus is a year older than my E320, and the nav system in it is superior in every respect. I spent $700 on a Garmin 2820 for my motorcycle that has integrated Bluetooth support, MP3, and is satellite radio ready. It's a far better system than my car's, but I hesitate to use it in the car because you have to find a place to put and and you have to hide it, or take it with you, when you get where you are going, just as Barry has pointed out.

Ed

55fanatic

When we talk about electronics, what are we speaking about, just Nav?

Or other gadgets like auto trunk closer(havent seen another marque with that), Keyless go(Im pretty sure MB was the first), Distronic(I think maybe BMW is the only other company with that?), Parktronic(again the first to go main stream with it), ventilated seats, massaging seats, IR driving view, Pre-safe(I think is what its called), all the wonderful suspension systems, illuminated door sills, panoramic roof... Should I go on?

Im pretty confident Benz has the best gadgets around, sometimes its the gadgets that decrease the reliability. Of the early W211s, those that were completely bare with accessories and options were the ones that had no issues...

BudC

Quite frankly, some of us might be more interested in core qualities like suspensions, engines, transmissions and brakes rather than electronic gadgets.

Honda/Acura have good electronic gadgets but their brakes leave much to be desired and Honda doesn't build rear wheel drive cars.

Lexus have a reputation for quality but every single one of their safety features appeared after the Germans did the innovation and R&D on them. Toyota/Lexus typically trail the Germans in things like engine technology and transmission options.

Who lead the Japanese and Americans in things like fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable intake manifolds, variable valve lift, silicone cylinder bores, four valve heads, etc. The list is almost endless?

The Japanese are better at marketing than the Germans but if it wasn't for the Germans, the Japanese wouldn't have much to sell.

DerekACS

Bud, well said !
I think that most MB and BMW buyers are more interested in the steak than the sizzle. I would describe NAV systems as "sizzle".

To your list, I would add such important engineeering achievements as the safety cell with crumple zones, anti-lock brakes, air bags, belt tensioners and CDI diesels, all of which were pioneered by Mercedes-Benz.

I cannot think of one major innovation in Japanese auto engineering that has been adopted by other manufacturers. Nor can I think of any Japanese original automotive design that has captured the world's admiration for outstanding aesthetic achievement in metal.

no_clue

hmm.... Isn't this kind of attitude caused what GM's problem faces today?
Besides e-valve, hybrid, they do have lots innovation.

I think the question is not "who started first", but "who will finished it well"?

Early 1990, Lexus LS was competing w/ E class.
15 years later, Lexus LS goes head to head w/ S class. Why?

Why are those corporate executives switching?
What do they see that we don't?
I am sure those corporate executives making easy 7 figures, but why they chose Lexus instead of Mercedes?

At MS Edmonds Campus, Boeing Everett, I saw more Lexus than Mercedes on their parking lot.
These top engineers definitely has High IQ, I am sure they are extremely smart and understand every aspect of Mechanical, Electronical engineering.
But why do they chose Lexus over Mercedes?

These people who are smarter than me, and got more money then I do driving Lexus....what does that mean?

DerekACS

Hybrids are a triumph in marketing. They do not perform as advertised, they are expensive to produce and purchase, and their battery packs are an environmental time bomb. This is innovation ?
Why are some people choosing Lexus over Mercedes ? There are lots of reasons. Reliability (real or perceived), high quality of assembly, value for the dollar, perhaps more customer friendly dealerships (lack of German arrogance) and superior marketing.
But guess which manufacturer had the highest number of world-wide recalls last year, exceeding the number of vehicles produced ? Toyota/Lexus !!

xraymd

My wife's RX400 has been great so far. It's getting 25.3mpg right now after 1100mi of city driving. Warm weather mileage is definitely better than what we were getting over the winter. I think the motor has to run more often when it's cold to provide heat.

As far as electronics, the Lexus nav is much better than my E55's. Part of that is the nav itself (Lexus doesn't give you a "range" of addresses), and part of it is the fact the data is just newer.

But the Lexus isn't that far ahead of my car. The touch screen for the nav is great, as long as you don't want to use it while moving. If you're on the go, the screen won't take commands, even from the passenger. You can use the voice commands on the go, but you have to remember what the recognized commands are.

IPod integration in the 400? Sure, just get a casette adapter. That's right, the tech heavy RX400 hybrid has no mp3 jack but does have a casette player!

Last is the dang screen. If I shut the Benz down with sat radio on the display, sat radio will be there when I start the car again. My wife's Lexus doesn't like to keep the radio display up. It always defaults to something else. This is really annoying when leaving the house. I pick my station and put the car in reverse. This puts the backup camera on the display. Put the car in drive and tah dah! - The display defaults to nav. But guess what? You haven't agreed to the disclaimer on the screen yet (which you have to do every time you start the car). Press the radio again to bring up it's display and it'll stay there until you shut the car off or put in reverse.

WEBSRFR

Um how about rock-solid reliable cars with features that work dependably? I'd call this a major innovation in the auto engineering industry. US car manufacturers didn't get it and sat on their laurels, and look where they are now? Hopefully European car manufacturers have learned a lesson there. I'm not even going to go into the cost and value aspect of the equation, as I'd gladly pay more for a superior implementation. I for one sincerely hope that electronic user interface engineering and reliability are innovations that will be better embraced by MB when I'm ready to purchase my next vehicle!

ATS

It appears to me that Mercedes sub contrtacted the Nav out to another company - you can't blame Mercedes for the engineering of the NAV (although I like it).

The other issue is that our cars NAV was probably engineered in 2002 or possibly 2003. A lot has changed since then. Anyone here have an S class? Is the NAV in these new cars any better?

I too love the engine, suspension, feel of the car when I am on the highway more then any other car I have driven. As long as I had SAT radio and a fast, great handling car I would be happy - and my car has these features.

SUNILP

I can tell you the rear view camera on the new S class is made in Japan by the same company that makes the nav units on the toyotas. Maybe they are moving to different manufacturers?

jimm

I believe that several here did not know that.

Jimm

==========

On order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Rear shade, Voice, Bluetooth,
Burl Walnut, Split rear seat, rear mud flaps

BudC

I don't think anyone is saying that the Japanese are stupid. It was a Japanese engineer that was hired by Ferrari's F1 team to help them design the latest engines. This is the same engineer who helped design the Honda engines that won the World Championship for McLaren.

However, I think it's fair to say that the Japanese are seldom impacted by leading edge windburn. They generally let someone else do the innovation and R&D before they adopt something.

My house is full of Japanese consumer electronics but my Bryston amp came from Canada and my Cotter pre-amp came from New York. When it comes to the heavy hitters, I seldom find it from the Japanese. That's not their bailiwick because there isn't enough profit in it.

What's interesting is that the Mark Levinson components used by Toyota may be Levinson in name only because that world famous name in high end audio is now owned by the Harmon Group.

Barry45RPM

The 1st generation of something is seldom very good. Just because someone else comes up with an idea, its the company that perfects it and makes it dependable, and user friendly, and then the standard by which others are judged... those are the people who deserve the success. Merely coming up with a great idea that doesn't work well, or is "clunky" is not what keeps you number one.

Its the leader of the expedition, not the look-out on the mast of the ship (who is getting all windburnt) who gets all the credit for discovering a new continent.

The sad fact is that poor electronic design and reliability nearly distroyed a 100 year old legacy of superior engineering by MB. Its NOT who is 1st.... Its who is BEST that insures success.

ATS

Honda hasn't done a thing in F1 in forever. Mercedes and Ferrari are the cutting edge teams today.

Which Bryston amp do you have, in the early 90's I had a Bryston 3B, I loved it.

Does anyone here have a S class or anyone demo'd the NAV? Has it improved?

I am thinking about getting a 2nd year E class (new model coming out in 2009?) when they go for sale, so I am sure things will be improved.

BudC

I don't think the Japanese *perfected* all the safety features they got from the Germans, it was the Germans. I admit that Mercedes lost their way by trying to invent new gadgets that weren't needed nor perfected before they were brought to market.

Anyway, someone has to push the envelope and in automotive engineering, it's the Germans. It may be appreciated by some (Europeans) but not others (Americans).

BudC

Actually, Mercedes are designed and developed in England like a lot of F1 engines. I suppose only BMW and Ferrari are Marques that do things in-house.

I have a Bryston 4B but started out with a used 3B. I called Bryston and asked that what it would cost to go over it. They asked me if I had a box for it and when I told them no, they sent me one. Then after I sent them the amplifier, they went over it completely and returned it to me with no charge. That''s why I bought a new 4B.

konigstiger

...20 year warranty! Anyway in not wondering too far off the topic, mentioned previously:

jimm

Barry -

I don’t know how you do it!

You just keep hitting nails on heads!

Jimm

==========

On order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps